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Give kashmir or take kashmir. Make up your mind as enemy is getting bold

i doubt EP could get its own oil, wasn't its ports also blocked?

West Pakistan did not arm East enough to defend itself. Most of the oil was spent by West during the war.
Once Karachi depot was taken out, the oil reserves became scarce.
So, that's the baseline, to fight a sustained war, Pakistan needs oil reserves, which it does not have for more than a few weeks.
 
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There is one more name i would like to add in the list of yours- nForce- so you were saying?-


We dont take back what we have gifted someone- not kool- talking of gifts we could have given the 2/3 to you as a gift as well- only if you have asked first- now the one you have we will rightfully take it back- :D

Mauka mauka....we [HASHTAG]#wontgiveitback[/HASHTAG] bhai :D
 
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Personally I dont agree with you that the war in kashmir could end in one month. due to the environment of the high mountains, it is unwise to conduct a large scale military assault in this area.
 
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Some Indians behaving like Pakistan wanting a war. It's India whose *** is burning due to China economy corridor.

Pakistanis shouldn't waste their energy on these loosers, we all know it, if time comes there will be 200 million people fighting India. Let them burn, and let us complete motorway from kashgar to gwadar quickly.
 
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West Pakistan did not arm East enough to defend itself. Most of the oil was spent by West during the war.
Once Karachi depot was taken out, the oil reserves became scarce.
So, that's the baseline, to fight a sustained war, Pakistan needs oil reserves, which it does not have for more than a few weeks.
u have taken the argument to a u turn.
it was impossible to protect EP against an all out Indian assault
 
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u have taken the argument to a u turn.
it was impossible to protect EP against an all out Indian assault
I am not talking about whether it was possible to save East Pakistan or not.
I'm talking about the fact the war on the western front started on 3rd December and lasted for about 13 days. By that time, war reserve for oil in West Pakistan was empty. East Pakistan has got nothing to do with that.
 
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Option 1. Pakistan peacefully gives back occupied Princely state of J&K, including Gilgit Baltistan.
Option 2. India takes it back through war and breaks up Pakistan in pieces.

As an Indian citizen, no other option is acceptable to me.

I just choked on my bagel LOL.

You do realize that India is occupying Kashmir just as much as Pakistan is, right?!? It's not something to give back, it does not belong to either. The only reason both sides even have that misconception is because the kashmiris tend to be peaceful people. There silence let's India and Pakistan occupy them and play with them like this.
 
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I am not talking about whether it was possible to save East Pakistan or not.
I'm talking about the fact the war on the western front started on 3rd December and lasted for about 13 days. By that time, war reserve for oil in West Pakistan was empty. East Pakistan has got nothing to do with that.
the war started on 21 Nov, k?
and if East Pakistan wasnt so hopeless, there would have been no surrender, k?
 
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the war started on 21 Nov, k?
and if East Pakistan wasnt so hopeless, there would have been no surrender, k?

As I said, war on the Western front started on 3rd of December.

Excerpt from Pakistani Army website :

On the West Pakistan front, on 3 December 1971 , India attacked with the main effort against Shakargarh sector with three infantry divisions supported by three armoured brigades against our 8 Division front, operating under our 1 Corps (Commander Lieutenant General Irshad Ahmad Khan).

Full article

It's about time you revisit recent history.
 
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The enemy is getting stupid to be honest -



There is an option 3. If you care to ask-

If you mean India giving away Kashmir & GB; unacceptable.

I just choked on my bagel LOL.

You do realize that India is occupying Kashmir just as much as Pakistan is, right?!? It's not something to give back, it does not belong to either.

No. India is not occupying, Pakistan is. Territory of Former Princely state of J&K including GB (not just Kashmir) is integral part of India.
There were more than 600 princely states in undivided British India. All of them became or had to become part of either India or Pakistan. Ruler of J&K acceded to India, not Pakistan, period.

Occupied territory is very important strategically. India must take it back by hook or by crook.
 
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If you mean India giving away Kashmir & GB; unacceptable.



No. India is not occupying, Pakistan is. Territory of Former Princely state of J&K including GB (not just Kashmir) is integral part of India.
There were more than 600 princely states in undivided British India. All of them became or had to become part of either India or Pakistan. Ruler of J&K acceded to India, not Pakistan, period.

Occupied territory is very important strategically. India must take it back by hook or by crook.

Oh I am sorry, please tell me a little bit more. I am a Kashimri, but you seem to know a bit more about my home, my state than I do, clearly :D :P
 
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Oh I am sorry, please tell me a little bit more. I am a Kashimri, but you seem to know a bit more about my home, my state than I do, clearly :D :P

I don't care for some ungrateful Uzbek or Iranian migrant into northern Indian region called Kashmir. Only native Kashmiris (kashmiri = Indian) have right to speak in my opinion.

Anyway this is not about people. This is a territorial dispute about Indian territory. People are just pawns for Pakistan. If Pakistan really cared for people, Pakistan would have given them citizenship and those who are interested could have migrated long ago like millions of other people did all over the subcontinent.
Once again, people are just meant to be pawns for propaganda and cannon fodder for Pakistan. Territory of princely state of J&K including GB belongs to India. That's the fact.
 
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It is not the first time that Modi has shown his utter hatred for Pakistan. Following is a brief summary of his actions after taking over as Pm.

1)Indian firing across Loc on end day killing dozens . 6 Oct 14
2) Then again in January IA fired across Loc using a large number of mortar shells
3)Despite positive statements of Pm nawaz cancelled secretary level dialogue to resume peace process.
4)He and his cabinet members never let go off any chance to malign Pakistan and goes the extra mile to unite fact and fiction.
5)Numerous proofs came to surface of Raw involvement in spreading terror in Pakistan ranging from discovery of indian currency and weapons, photos of militants like brahamdag bugti with their raw handler. mulla fazullah TTP chief being kept in a safe heaven by raw in Afghanistan.
6)Recent indian heart burn on a intel share deal between NDS and ISI (it was a deal between two sovereign states and indian reaction proved they don't want Afghanistan to adopt a balanced foreign policy and prefer people like Karzai who say yes to every indian demand)
7) Modi opposed CPEC during a meeting with Chinese president again intervening between affairs of two sovereign states though he was silenced by Chinese president saying china is only doing development.
8) And to top it up he now admitted in Dhaka the active role IA played in dividing Pakistan.

Everybody mean all intelligence agencies round the globe knows what India did in 1971 how the seeds of hatred were sown by them once they got a chance due to ZAB greed for power. IA commandos were used to kill civilians wearing PA uniforms and rest is all history.

My point here is Indian hatred for Pakistan is not new but now they have got a leader who is sadist and a world known criminal for killing thousands of innocent Muslims and is shameless beyond words lacking all human qualities and better be considered a beast disguised as a human. He will unify Indian hate for Pakistan and will try to isolate Pakistan to a point where he thinks we will withdraw our Iok claim and would be able to use Pakistan to access Iran, Afghanistan and central Asia. He believes in use of force and is very open in accepting so and I guess we should be ready for things heating up instantly after some major massacre of indian troops in Kashmir or some bomb blast's in cities both of which will be false flag ops most probably.

Now coming to Pakistan as a state we have contained militancy to a good extent as compared to 2008-09 but roots of the problem still exist which is worrying and needs to be dealt with asap only then we can focus On our real issue of India.

After having met and worked with indians of all castes and religions from north and south(in one of the worlds best multinational company where most of the people are highly educated and groomed)
I have concluded they have not yet accepted the reality of a separate muslim state and they all know deep with in that Kashmir being a muslim majority state was Never theirs as per two nation theory .

Now a painful reality check india owing to its bigger economy and religion(which align itself naturally with anti islam sentiments) has a successful diplomatic strategy and a more advanced army (I am not saying better) on the other hand Pakistan has no one to support her in the event of a war except Turkey(that too under tayab only) and china but that too will be limited if Pakistan is labeled as the aggressor .

Keeping in mind indian hatred and desire to make loc the border I have following two solutions and would like your input.

1) Make LOC international border withdrawing rights over IOK and make Azad Kashmir our 5th province and gilgit baltistan 6th.Give india rail, road, pipelines access to iran , afghanstan and central asia earning billions of dollars and getting rid of all militancy in country and region will be free of tensions. Pakistan in 5-10 years can be in worlds top 10 economies by just giving transit services to india and .

Two major drawback for this solution would be acute water shortage In pakistan if India as some intel suggested kept drilling underground tunnels to deviate indus river flow .In other words we will be dependent on Indiaa for our water.
Secondly thousands of martyrs who gave their blood to free their muslim brothers from oppression will go in vain destroying armys morale rendering it weak against our second biggest enemy Israel

2)Put our own house in order and then let the whole world know that Kashmir is ours and if nobody cares about UN resolutions we do and will get it byforce if not by diplomacy.
Distribute half of nukes across international border telling world we wont use them unless india violates international border and start our offensive from north from siachin and kargil sectors and arm Kashmiri youth let the two armies fight and the stronger will be winner and we all know who will that be.

If we can deter india from international border and fight a localized war in Kashmir with the help of kashmiries I am sure we can win it in less than a month.

In the former case Pakistanis will die a slow death looking for water and in the later case even if we loose in conquering the whole Kashmir we will gain some area forsure if attack is planned well plus Kashmir dispute will be highlighted in a way that nothing else can do.

I will personally go by the later solution as people like modi don't understand the language of saris and congratulation criminals like him only understand the language of bullets.

Even I personally want you to go by the later "Solution", however, going by the number of "Thanks" you have received for your first two posts in this thread; I don't think too many Pakistanis are buying your "Prudent" idea! :)
 
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I don't care for some ungrateful Uzbek or Iranian migrant into northern Indian region called Kashmir. Only native Kashmiris (kashmiri = Indian) have right to speak in my opinion.

Anyway this is not about people. This is a territorial dispute about Indian territory. People are just pawns for Pakkstan. If Pakistan really cared for people, Pakistan would have given them citizenship and those who are interested could have migrated long ago like millions of other people did all over the subcontinent.
Once again, people are just meant to be pawns for propaganda and cannon fodder for Pakistan. Territory of princely state of J&K including GB belongs to India. That's the fact.

LOL my grandfather was an indian kashmiri, who migrated to the other side of the border.Now that we have that established let me give you the opinion of someone who actually has the right to say something on this matter.

First of all, you don't get to determine who is kashmiri and who is not. Nor do you get to set any criteria or standard for us to live up to. That's our job! Our people, our territory so our vNext, yes but India is involved in that game of politics inkashmir as much as pakistan. Let's not even get started on India's relationship with Kashmiris. Lastly, just like India gets to vote for its future and Pakistan votes for its, the kashmiris should vote for theirs and their opinion should be the most important not that of an indian or a pakistani. You preach democracy so much, where is it now?

Having said all of this, I do understand the situation and security dilemma each country faces and do acknowledge that as much as Kashmiris want to be independent, that will not be good for the region overall. I don't believe in blind patriotism and nationalism, so I would be okay with any option that brings (relative) peace to the region as long as the human rights of all people (indian, kashmiris and pakistanis) are respected.

Btw Pakistan does give citizenship to kashmiris! I normally don't comment on such topics but this kind of attitude towards kashmir and it's people is very disturbing and I have seen it on both sides of the border.
 
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