Gilani, Putin agreed to expand strategic dialogue

[Gokul]

Guys, you are all missing the crux of the issue.... "Gilani, Putin agree to expand strategic dialogue"

Dialogue

Get it ??? There'll only be dialogue... They will only keep talking...

I doubt whether Russia will sell them anything significiant except the already much criticised sale of RD-33 engines Klimov for his planes...

Plus, India has leverage enough with Russia to make sure he doesnt do anything stupid... isn't the MRCA competition coming to an end middle of this year... Its worth about $0 billion....

That ought to be enough leverage to keep him from thinking stupid things and suddenly getting any "ideas"...

 

[duhastmish]

sir

Russian Indian relationship is not based solely on MMRCA - rather i think India is smart enough not to go for Russian fighter this time. we should not depend on one country- Russia India are strategic partner in many JOINT VENTURE- which will keep these two STRATEGIC FRIEND close to each other.And don't just look at economy we are very economic partner, and friends in many other respects.
As for Pakistan - i think they should not just look at it from one defense point of view but look at it from other economic and business partner etc. The process is slow but may be if they go smooth one day be defense partner too.
thankyou.

 

[Gokul]

I'm not saying it is based on MMRCA... all I'm saying is that it can be used as a bargaining chip very easily...

Now, don't come out and give me all the bullshit about ethics et al. Gandhi-ism, according to me doesnt work anymore.... If you have something, you have to blackmail somebody with it... unless you do, you will not get what you want...

For example, see how Pakistan is openly blackmailing US with support on the war on Terror... with that blackmail, US is not able to do anything against him....

In the same way, we must use the multi-billion dollar deal as leverage against whoever we dont like... unless you do that, you're not going to achieve it...

 

[duhastmish]

sir
i said strategic friend - there is no permanent friend or enemy in world politics. Russia is not doing a charity - either with PAK-FA or any other deal. its a big business. I SAID : we should not go for Russian fighter- never depend on one country too much for your defense.
as for Pakistan its same business deal - they get money but us is not doing charity either Pakistan is fighting its own people in afghan.

 

[Gokul]

It actually makes more sense to possibly go in for the MiG35 at this stage... very little investment and the pilots have good training with MiG fighters

Later, we can procure F-35 or F-22 as and when it is required...

Please remember, if we go in for FA-18, it might entail more maintainance facilities, different weaponry etc. And, what about integration with our existing DataLinks which are all Russian made ??? And, what about integration with Phalcon AWACS ??? It leaves a lot of uncomfortable questions unanswered...

Correct me if I'm wrong...

and, please, stop calling me Sir, I'm just a Lieutenant, you're the Captain....

 

[Jihad]

should india be worried about wat a nation that lives on aid thinks?

anyways, this is called Diplomacy. not whining and b!tching. though if you like using those words, you are welcome.

And India is not living from aid..?
Come again..? Want me to give you names of wellwilling dutch people donating cash to poor farmers in India? Schools built in India by dutch money?
Don't even start about the aid subject, you might want to add an "S" to aid, something your country has plenty of.

I used the words "whining" and "bitchy" because that's all that India does everytime Pakistan purchases something or is about to strike a good deal with another nation regarding military equipment.
However, on the other way around, I don't see Pakistan complain about any of India's purchasements.
Yet another good image your country has, still, you couldn't care less, it is good to know for me how ignorant people like you are.

 

[duhastmish]

sir

for mrca we have a different thread and during past discussion show all the reason why not to go for mig-35. and f-22/f-35 india have FGFA OR PAK-FA- FOR THAT read fifth generation fighter posts.

pakistan depandancey over russia will only give upper hand to india - as india being a closer ally of russia - we can actually blackmail if time comes for war.

 

[Gokul]

My last post about fighters on this thread

By even conservative estimates PAK-FA is not even effectively off the gruond, and same for FGFA... you'd be foolish to think you'd get either of those before 2025 (conservative estimates, could be more)

And, till then you want to go without 5th Gen fighter ??? We need stopgap arrangements and need to possibly even look at F35 for the indigenously built Aircraft Carriers, I suspect they would be able to handle a modified version given that it has VTOL capability....

You dont need to tell me to read about 5th gen fighters, I know them already, and thats why Im telling you... and you know how notorious the Russkies are for late deliveries... we need to strike a balance somewhere...

Give him the Mig35 order... and when later the IAC comes into service, look for F35s to complement the air wings on those carriers....

 

[Moscow]

My last post about fighters on this thread

By even conservative estimates PAK-FA is not even effectively off the gruond, and same for FGFA... you'd be foolish to think you'd get either of those before 2025 (conservative estimates, could be more)

And, till then you want to go without 5th Gen fighter ??? We need stopgap arrangements and need to possibly even look at F35 for the indigenously built Aircraft Carriers, I suspect they would be able to handle a modified version given that it has VTOL capability....

You dont need to tell me to read about 5th gen fighters, I know them already, and thats why Im telling you... and you know how notorious the Russkies are for late deliveries... we need to strike a balance somewhere...

Give him the Mig35 order... and when later the IAC comes into service, look for F35s to complement the air wings on those carriers....

sir do you really think that lockweed will be willing to sell you the f-35 if you do not choose the f-16 for mrca?
sir your idea about the scheduled development of PAKFA is totally incorrect.

thanks

 

[Gokul]

Money Talks Moscow... Money Talks... They'll surely sell us F35, I'm pretty confident of that... I know they are putting preconditions, but all India has to do is to use some back-channel diplomacy to twise the F-35 out of them...

Plus, India being the new so-called counterbalance to China, they wouldn't want us without a 5th generation fighter for long when China's J-XX enters service....

Well, unfortunately, I harbour no hate towards Russians per se, but the fact that the Gorshkov and other submarines are now about 2 years behind schedule does irk me a bit...

I do not want these delays to affect the relationship between our countries, but you ought to realise that these delays are certainly not helping our relationship...

All said and done, I believe that you need to pull up your socks and I do support Russia for the MiG-35 deal over the F/A-18...

I do hope you will take this as constructive criticism and not as hostility if you know what I mean... Cheers !!!

Dasvidanyah...

 

[Moscow]

Money Talks Moscow... Money Talks... They'll surely sell us F35, I'm pretty confident of that... I know they are putting preconditions, but all India has to do is to use some back-channel diplomacy to twise the F-35 out of them...

Plus, India being the new so-called counterbalance to China, they wouldn't want us without a 5th generation fighter for long when China's J-XX enters service....

Well, unfortunately, I harbour no hate towards Russians per se, but the fact that the Gorshkov and other submarines are now about 2 years behind schedule does irk me a bit...

I do not want these delays to affect the relationship between our countries, but you ought to realise that these delays are certainly not helping our relationship...

All said and done, I believe that you need to pull up your socks and I do support Russia for the MiG-35 deal over the F/A-18...

I do hope you will take this as constructive criticism and not as hostility if you know what I mean... Cheers !!!

Dasvidanyah...

sir i always take things in a constructive way so no probs on that front.
yes surely the us might sell you some f-35 later for a big price but noway you are getting the technology which india always puts as a precondition.
as for jxx its non existant and in noway is china building a 5th gen plane before russia does.
the mig-35 is a good plane but i like the french rafale the most.
also taking about delays india always points out the delays but what about the thousands that we are supplying on time. if you are buying such a huge amount of ammunition then thereare bound to be delays.goroshkov is a single out problem but the other subs are not delayed, the indian goverment officially requested to delay the delivery of akula nuclear sub< i have posted all the links in this forum>the frigates are on time,the carrier mig 29s are delivered before time.the helicopters are on time,the smerch is on time even the phalcon intregation and su30mki delivery is on time.sowhy only point to the failures and delays thats the whole point.


thnx

 

[Gokul]

yes surely the us might sell you some f-35 later for a big price but noway you are getting the technology which india always puts as a precondition.

I agree, the F-35 will not be given with full ToT... so, we will have to compromise on that, and I think we should do that... Plus, I'm asking for F-35 only as a stop-gap before the PAK-FA becomes operational... then, the F-35 can be used to complement the MiGs on the Aircraft Carrier because of its VTOL ability... I personally think the F-35 will make a great support jet for the MiGs on the carriers and hence I think it does have a future there....

But, for a frontline 5th generation, the only thing that can take on the F-22 is the PAK-FA and I agree to that and appreciate it...

the indian goverment officially requested to delay the delivery of akula nuclear sub< i have posted all the links in this forum

I was not aware of our Government asking the delay of the Akula... I'm sorry about that because I was obviously misinformed....

But, dude, the delays on the Gorshkov are major, it was supposed to be delivered an year ago, and by this time the INS Viraat was supposed to be retired, but by all indications, the Gorshkov is not coming for the next 2 years !!!

Also, the shipyard manufacturers were behaving a little unprofessionally if you ask me, they were incessantly asking for more money and have essentially doubled the costs of the project for no apparent reason... (please do correct me if I'm wrong)

This is what pissed me off, the unprofessional attitude of the ship-builders... I agree that Russia has been and will be our best friend, but it certainly needs to take these people (ship-builders) to task...

 

[Gokul]

Enough of digression... let's get back to the topic... Russia and Pakistan having some sort of dialogue...

I will not reply to any of the previous posts about the PAK-FA, MiG-35 etc... Consider that closed.... any responses to that will only be by PM...

Cheers !!! Back to the topic...

 

[Cheetah786]

Putin has not forgotten what role you played in Afghanistan. Always keep it in mind.

India will excercise its economic and diplomatical pressure where it has a say that is what global diplomatic relations are all about.

Jumping from the American lap to the Russian lap will be like jumping from frying pan to fire.

Well your A** is on fire in any case.

LOL i guess india jumping from Russian to israeli to American to french to German all over the place is different but its not good for pakistan put that order out for those so called 125 fighters to any where then russia and i am sure uncle putin will love that and by the way your *** is always on fire in all the cases.

 

[Cheetah786]

Guys, you are all missing the crux of the issue.... "Gilani, Putin agree to expand strategic dialogue"

Dialogue

Get it ??? There'll only be dialogue... They will only keep talking...

I doubt whether Russia will sell them anything significiant except the already much criticised sale of RD-33 engines Klimov for his planes...

Plus, India has leverage enough with Russia to make sure he doesnt do anything stupid... isn't the MRCA competition coming to an end middle of this year... Its worth about $0 billion....

That ought to be enough leverage to keep him from thinking stupid things and suddenly getting any "ideas"...

PEOPLE PLEASE BE CONSIDERATE TO OUR INDIAN FRIENDS ITS GIVING THEM HEART BURNING
EVERY THING STARTS WITH A DIALOGUE BUT I GUESS IN INDIA THINGS ARENT DONE THAT WAY