German deals for the Hellenic Army

[Foinikas]

Apparently,the Greek government agreed with Germany on some deals:

• 205 Lynx IFVs and a production line in Greece
• The upgrade of the 183 Leopard 2A4 tanks to Leopard 2A7
• Marder 1A3/A5 in exchange for the old BMP-1s that will be sent to Ukraine
• The possible installation of Trophy APS on the 183 Leopard 2A7s or some other tanks
• The upgrade of 190 Leopard 1A5 tanks with a new FCS (and I don't know what else)

I remind you that the Hellenic Army hadn't had a modern IFV for decades. The only IFVs we've had were 105 AMX-10Ps which were retired after the French demanded an insane price for spare parts,if I remember correctly and then the BMP-1 Ost which we bought in the early '90s from East German stocks.

Until recently,we also didn't have any MRAPs. The Greek contigent in Afghanistan was given 10 MaxxPro by the Americans,but we returned them.

The first MRAPs in Greece,were the 8 consficated GSS-300. They were part of a consficated cargo of armored cars and jeeps that were going to Libya in violation of the arms embargo. After 5 years,in 2020 the government used them in Evros(if I remember correctly,we had solved any legal problems with the Libyan government).

Now,we also have 174 M1117 Guardian out of 1,200 that we will be getting in total.

Back in the early 2000s,we were supposed to be getting Marder 1A3 or 1A5 IFVs. This dragged on for years until we decided to buy some 450 BMP-3s from Russia. Then the economic crisis came and that deal was scrapped.

Now I'm thinking...maybe it was for the better.

What's your opinion on the Lynx?

 

[Ghostkiller]

Apparently,the Greek government agreed with Germany on some deals:

• 205 Lynx IFVs and a production line in Greece
• The upgrade of the 183 Leopard 2A4 tanks to Leopard 2A7
• Marder 1A3/A5 in exchange for the old BMP-1s that will be sent to Ukraine
• The possible installation of Trophy APS on the 183 Leopard 2A7s or some other tanks
• The upgrade of 190 Leopard 1A5 tanks with a new FCS (and I don't know what else)

I remind you that the Hellenic Army hadn't had a modern IFV for decades. The only IFVs we've had were 105 AMX-10Ps which were retired after the French demanded an insane price for spare parts,if I remember correctly and then the BMP-1 Ost which we bought in the early '90s from East German stocks.

Until recently,we also didn't have any MRAPs. The Greek contigent in Afghanistan was given 10 MaxxPro by the Americans,but we returned them.

The first MRAPs in Greece,were the 8 consficated GSS-300. They were part of a consficated cargo of armored cars and jeeps that were going to Libya in violation of the arms embargo. After 5 years,in 2020 the government used them in Evros(if I remember correctly,we had solved any legal problems with the Libyan government).

View attachment 850025

Now,we also have 174 M1117 Guardian out of 1,200 that we will be getting in total.

View attachment 850026

Back in the early 2000s,we were supposed to be getting Marder 1A3 or 1A5 IFVs. This dragged on for years until we decided to buy some 450 BMP-3s from Russia. Then the economic crisis came and that deal was scrapped.

Now I'm thinking...maybe it was for the better.

What's your opinion on the Lynx?

Mabrook to Greece

Any mechanized vehicle made by Germany will be always beautiful since WWII. I think it would be a good additional for Hellenic army to replace old IFV with advanced ones plus with production line (so to manufacture locally I think). It is a perfect combo. But you need an indigenous IFV so it can be compatible and working together with the Lynx

 

[Foinikas]

Mabrook to Greece

Any mechanized vehicle made by Germany will be always beautiful since WWII. I think it would be a good additional for Hellenic army to replace old IFV with advanced ones plus with production line (so to manufacture locally I think). It is a perfect combo. But you need an indigenous IFV so it can be compatible and working together with the Lynx

At first I wondered why not the Puma,but the Germans are offering us a production line.

Akhy,we need modern IFVs and APCs. We're still stuck with M113s and Leonidas II.

 

[reflecthofgeismar]

Apparently,the Greek government agreed with Germany on some deals:

• 205 Lynx IFVs and a production line in Greece
• The upgrade of the 183 Leopard 2A4 tanks to Leopard 2A7
• Marder 1A3/A5 in exchange for the old BMP-1s that will be sent to Ukraine
• The possible installation of Trophy APS on the 183 Leopard 2A7s or some other tanks
• The upgrade of 190 Leopard 1A5 tanks with a new FCS (and I don't know what else)

I remind you that the Hellenic Army hadn't had a modern IFV for decades. The only IFVs we've had were 105 AMX-10Ps which were retired after the French demanded an insane price for spare parts,if I remember correctly and then the BMP-1 Ost which we bought in the early '90s from East German stocks.

Until recently,we also didn't have any MRAPs. The Greek contigent in Afghanistan was given 10 MaxxPro by the Americans,but we returned them.

The first MRAPs in Greece,were the 8 consficated GSS-300. They were part of a consficated cargo of armored cars and jeeps that were going to Libya in violation of the arms embargo. After 5 years,in 2020 the government used them in Evros(if I remember correctly,we had solved any legal problems with the Libyan government).

View attachment 850025

Now,we also have 174 M1117 Guardian out of 1,200 that we will be getting in total.

View attachment 850026

Back in the early 2000s,we were supposed to be getting Marder 1A3 or 1A5 IFVs. This dragged on for years until we decided to buy some 450 BMP-3s from Russia. Then the economic crisis came and that deal was scrapped.

Now I'm thinking...maybe it was for the better.

What's your opinion on the Lynx?

NO need for Marder series when you will have KF41 Lynx...
Less logistic chain, the better.
If still getting the little animals, make 2 tier army.
One with (again) upgraded Marder 1 and (again) upgraded Leo 1.
All Leopard 2 should be MINIMUM upgraded to 2A7 with Trophy APS.
KF41 in IFV, (double)Mortar variant (AMOS), AA, etc. highly modular, thus several useful variants.

For wheeled IFV I personally would choose German Boxer but in your case I would go "full french".
so for 4x4, 6x6, 8x8 all french vehicles.

Arquus VBAE Scarabee 4x4
VBMR-L Serval 4x4
VBMR Griffon 6x6
EBRC Jaguar 6x6
VBCI 2 8x8
+
"relative modern" Leopard 2
KF41 Lynx
What I mean with "relative" is that Germans have since several decades much better engines than usually used in Leo2. (MT 883 Ka-501 CRI)

Protection:
AMAP armor packs (additional armor)
MUSS 2.0 Passive Protection System
Rosy_L/Rosy_Mod (passive protection system in conjunction with MUSS 2.0, fog/smoke launcher)
ADS-APS/StrikeShield APS (Active Protection System, fastest APS in the world)
Diehl AVePS (formerly "AWiSS")) (Active Protection System)
ERA (Dynamite Nobel Defence, infantry-"safest" ERA in the world)
Cage armor at critical points
Solar Sigma Shield (“Camouflage Net”)

Sensors:
The most modern optics/optronics etc. from Hensoldt/Rheinmetall that are available acoustic shooter location system is of course also included recognition and thus the ability to fight (RCWS with 30x113mm HEAB) from the classic small(est) drones, which you have to reckon with.

PS:
AVePS could be implemented in the future as part of an APS suite such as the US Army's MAPS (Modular Active Protection Systems). MAPS is not a single APS but a combination of different systems designed to provide "multi-layered" protection and share sensors and other system architecture. In the case of the vehicles, that would be Softkill -> Launcher Hardkill -> Distributed Hardkill (MUSS -> AVePS -> ADS).

At first I wondered why not the Puma,but the Germans are offering us a production line.

Akhy,we need modern IFVs and APCs. We're still stuck with M113s and Leonidas II.

Puma is German exclusive more or less, doctrine...
It's a wonder that I could be produced like it was a horror history.
I personally rate it above the Lynx (for Germany) but Lynx is de facto the best tracked IFV - as a whole - in it's category, so...

 

[Foinikas]

NO need for Marder series when you will have KF41 Lynx...
Less logistic chain, the better.
If still getting the little animals, make 2 tier army.
One with (again) upgraded Marder 1 and (again) upgraded Leo 1.
All Leopard 2 should be MINIMUM upgraded to 2A7 with Trophy APS.
KF41 in IFV, (double)Mortar variant (AMOS), AA, etc. highly modular, thus several useful variants.

For wheeled IFV I personally would choose German Boxer but in your case I would go "full french".
so for 4x4, 6x6, 8x8 all french vehicles.

Arquus VBAE Scarabee 4x4
VBMR-L Serval 4x4
VBMR Griffon 6x6
EBRC Jaguar 6x6
VBCI 2 8x8
+
"relative modern" Leopard 2
KF41 Lynx
What I mean with "relative" is that Germans have since several decades much better engines than usually used in Leo2. (MT 883 Ka-501 CRI)

Protection:
AMAP armor packs (additional armor)
MUSS 2.0 Passive Protection System
Rosy_L/Rosy_Mod (passive protection system in conjunction with MUSS 2.0, fog/smoke launcher)
ADS-APS/StrikeShield APS (Active Protection System, fastest APS in the world)
Diehl AVePS (formerly "AWiSS")) (Active Protection System)
ERA (Dynamite Nobel Defence, infantry-"safest" ERA in the world)
Cage armor at critical points
Solar Sigma Shield (“Camouflage Net”)

Sensors:
The most modern optics/optronics etc. from Hensoldt/Rheinmetall that are available acoustic shooter location system is of course also included recognition and thus the ability to fight (RCWS with 30x113mm HEAB) from the classic small(est) drones, which you have to reckon with.

PS:
AVePS could be implemented in the future as part of an APS suite such as the US Army's MAPS (Modular Active Protection Systems). MAPS is not a single APS but a combination of different systems designed to provide "multi-layered" protection and share sensors and other system architecture. In the case of the vehicles, that would be Softkill -> Launcher Hardkill -> Distributed Hardkill (MUSS -> AVePS -> ADS).



Puma is German exclusive more or less, doctrine...
It's a wonder that I could be produced like it was a horror history.
I personally rate it above the Lynx (for Germany) but Lynx is de facto the best tracked IFV - as a whole - in it's category, so...

Well here's the thing,it's supposed to be an exchange. We'll give our BMP-1s to Ukraine and Germany will give us Marder 1A3/A5. We also have 501 Leopard 1A5 tanks in service.

The point is that we need IFVs now and anything is better than the BMP-1

Also,from what I read,the Germans offered us 205 Lynx. I don't know if we'll buy or make more of them in the future.

But if you ask me,personally,I would love to see us buy some VBCI Philoctetes,Griffon and Leclerc in Greece. They are gorgeous.

P.S. I wish we went full French on this,but hey,it's Rheinmetall and KMW products

I mean...I wish we got some 120-150 VBCI Philoctetes,some 20 Griffon and 50 Leclerc on top of the German equipment. Even some old AMX-10RC if they wanted to give us any.