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German call for headscraves ban is a perfect example of the contradictions inherent to secularism.

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look what does this lead too? Only insults.

She said its demanded christians pay a special tax as ransom to not get killed. We had only a few hours about islam, She talked about those things you must do. I think it was like 4 or 5 things. Like going Mecca. She told basic stuff. Like you walk several times around that block there and also go to a hill and throw stones at a wall.

just very basic stuff.

Please dont bring up our holy father. Insulting pope is very bad. peace


There is no special ransom to pay to not be killed.


Also I don't care about your "holy father" He may be a expert on christianity but he knows nothing of Islam.
 
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https://www.facebook.com/haqiqatjou/posts/1793540060864708

By Daniel Haqiqatjou


This is a perfect example of the contradictions inherent to secularism.

"Two influential German legal associations are calling for headscarves to be banned for judges and lawyers to uphold “neutrality” in court.

"Robert Seegmüller, chairman of the Association of German Administrative Judges, said the required uniform of black robes, white shirt and white bow tie, cravat or neckerchief is important to show that the outcome of a case “does not depend on the person, but solely on what the law says.""

What do you think are the origins of the black robe? The NY Times says: "Although the judicial robe’s origin remains uncertain, some believe it has its origins in the church, when the clergy and judiciary were one and the same. Robes appeared in the British judiciary in the 14th century."

I haven't taken the time to research this, but I wouldn't be surprised if, centuries ago, the robe was borrowed from the Muslim thobe (thawb), which itself was considered a garment of status, erudition, and religious prestige in our tradition.

Regardless, it is clear that the robe which these German secularists are insisting on has religious origins. And even to this day, the long robe has religious significance for Muslims, as both Muslim men and women will wear it. Women in particular wear black robes, i.e., the jilbab. Jewish and Christian religious figures also utilize the black robe. Whether past or present, the black robe is permeated with religious significance.

There are those who are arguing for the ban of the hijab as well as other religious symbols and claim that they are upholding "neutrality." The straightforward objection is, of course, who decided what is "neutral" dress?

This is the central conceit of secularism, namely that if you subtract everything that is "religious," what you are left with is truly neutral and that is where secularism ought to begin. In reality, however, there is no neutral core that is completely free of the same metaphysicality and normativity that is supposedly so objectionable about religion.

The only way to get to this neutral, secular core is to *create* it. You simply assert that a particular custom, cultural norm, style of dress, normative commitment, etc., is "secular" or "neutral" and everything else is "religious." This labeling process gains legitimacy through shared cultural assumptions. Muslim practices and dress happen to be relatively foreign, so they are easily seen by all as distinctly "religious." But Western modes of dress, many of which also technically have religious origins and significance, can be deemed "cultural" and hence "secular" and hence "neutral." These are just language games.

So, this kerfuffle about black robes and the headscarf is a perfect example of secularism fabricating neutral ground in order to artificially maintain a hollow semblance of impartiality.

I also want to mention something about religious freedom. As I keep emphasizing, as Muslims we should not resort to freedom of religion arguments to defend ourselves against the secular assault. We should instead point out the internal contradictions of secularism (e.g., like I do above) and force the secularists to admit that their problem with the Muslim headscarf is nothing more than cultural bias. If they can admit that, fine. But we should not allow them to get away with pretending that their opposition to the hijab is due to some rational commitment to neutrality and even-handedness because, as we have seen, that is clearly not the case.

At the end of the day, if they want to insist that their objections to the hijab are due to cultural bias, Muslims can live with that. Because in Muslim societies, we should feel comfortable instituting our own standards of dress, standards which are not due to ever-changing cultural whims but based on our religious values and standards of decency and modesty set by God. This is where we want the discussion to end up.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ourt-lawyers-to-show-neutrality-a7180591.html

German judges call for headscarf ban in court to show 'neutrality'
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@Zibago @waleed3601 @Kaptaan @pak-marine @haviZsultan @Hell hound @Sliver @third eye @Kaniska @Joe Shearer @PersonasNonGrata @flamer84 @A.P. Richelieu @Vergennes
@jamahir @Nair saab @Rain Man @Joe Shearer @Nilgiri[/QUOTE]

Thank you for posting this article on this forum, i haven't seen this level of quality of journalism in at least 5 to 10 years.. And i never do '***-kissing'. I do 'give credit where credit is due'.

And yes, I do have an opinion on this subject that i'd like to list, if only for the historic records..

A judge not being allowed to wear the hijab at her Judge job, probably is, and should be, much the same as a Judge not being allowed to wear current-day religious symbols from Christianity ('Jesus on the cross' necklace or 'Maria with Child' as a necklace or on a t-shirt..). The same laws of a uniform designed by the State for any job, and especially lawyers and judges, apply to Jewish judges as well.

And of course there are lots of other jobs that have uniforms, in any society. Some of the jobs allow a hijab (Dutch female supermarket cashiers (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/cashier?s=t) often wear a hijab and everybody's fine with that), and some can't.

Some jobs, like Judges in a court, indeed need to be more neutral in their dresscode (how their work-uniform looks), so that for instance a white Christian person who happens to be called up for a court-hearing about this-or-that, does not think that Muslim Sharia laws are going to determine the outcome of the court-hearing..
 
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It's their country their laws. Muslims have no right to impose their belief system on their society.

Go to a Muslim land if you want your way of life.
 
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i trust my teacher, she did read other verses and those were really cruel. also you get very agressive and insulting with me. I say what i feel with my heart. What i got teached. Im not idiot. when younuse personal insult you close all doors.

Your teacher is a lying sack of shit, what verses? Why is your teacher teaching a class about Islam? does she have any credentials or did she just read of bullshit sites like "religion of peace"

Why do you think i'm aggressive with you? You are the most inhuman disgusting thing on planet earth.

Doesn't want people coming to Italy because its the national property of Italians but Egyptians can't have their artifacts even though it's their national property.

Calls for lethal force on defenseless women and children and forces old men and children to work for no pay in fields like the Nazis with their death camps. Yet when Italy experiences a earthquakes expects sympathy.

Openly defends hitler and his laws.

Openly says he is apart of a racist political faction and pretends he is free of all guilt

Gladly cheers on Mafias killing migrants and refugees despite them completely trashing your country

I give you proof of verses and their locations and acts like I'm a liar

Goes on a Muslim defense forum and hates muslims

Cries when Italy experiences a earthquake but openly calls for the killing of Syrian refugees

Complete idiot when it comes to history of civilization

complete bigot when it comes to Islam

Complete and utter douchebag

Acts like he is the center of the universe when he is some airlines lackey and some stupid model

and the list goes on and on, do not act like the victim.

Your teacher is an idiot, a liar, and possibly one of the crappiest human beings on planet earth.
The fact that you deny evidence that is shown and act like you are the one with facts?

You know denial isn't just a river in Egypt

You are both right.

I'm staying out of the rest of this discussion. Please don't kill eachother or get eachother killed.

YOU ARE ALL HIGH-QUALITY DEBATERS. and you all want to grow old, right?

Learn to temper your tongues, i know from mental-burnout, that any 'crash-course' others might put you through, leaves painful scars on your mind that stay there for up to 10 (ten) or even 20 (twenty) years..

Over & out for now. I'm not a discussion moderator, but i'll check in on defence.pk two times per week (as i promised earlier)..
 
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I'm sure your holy father doesn't want your mothers and sisters to wear bikinis to the beach, but you euro-centric hypocrites forget that conveniently. Why don't you just admit that Euros are Pagans and non religious. After all of the homo-erotic Roman history that you are proud of on this forum, what gives you the right to pretend to be religious?

:lol:

big words coming from someone whose ancestors are non existant in history.
 
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https://www.facebook.com/haqiqatjou/posts/1793540060864708

By Daniel Haqiqatjou


This is a perfect example of the contradictions inherent to secularism.

"Two influential German legal associations are calling for headscarves to be banned for judges and lawyers to uphold “neutrality” in court.

"Robert Seegmüller, chairman of the Association of German Administrative Judges, said the required uniform of black robes, white shirt and white bow tie, cravat or neckerchief is important to show that the outcome of a case “does not depend on the person, but solely on what the law says.""

What do you think are the origins of the black robe? The NY Times says: "Although the judicial robe’s origin remains uncertain, some believe it has its origins in the church, when the clergy and judiciary were one and the same. Robes appeared in the British judiciary in the 14th century."

I haven't taken the time to research this, but I wouldn't be surprised if, centuries ago, the robe was borrowed from the Muslim thobe (thawb), which itself was considered a garment of status, erudition, and religious prestige in our tradition.

Regardless, it is clear that the robe which these German secularists are insisting on has religious origins. And even to this day, the long robe has religious significance for Muslims, as both Muslim men and women will wear it. Women in particular wear black robes, i.e., the jilbab. Jewish and Christian religious figures also utilize the black robe. Whether past or present, the black robe is permeated with religious significance.

There are those who are arguing for the ban of the hijab as well as other religious symbols and claim that they are upholding "neutrality." The straightforward objection is, of course, who decided what is "neutral" dress?

This is the central conceit of secularism, namely that if you subtract everything that is "religious," what you are left with is truly neutral and that is where secularism ought to begin. In reality, however, there is no neutral core that is completely free of the same metaphysicality and normativity that is supposedly so objectionable about religion.

The only way to get to this neutral, secular core is to *create* it. You simply assert that a particular custom, cultural norm, style of dress, normative commitment, etc., is "secular" or "neutral" and everything else is "religious." This labeling process gains legitimacy through shared cultural assumptions. Muslim practices and dress happen to be relatively foreign, so they are easily seen by all as distinctly "religious." But Western modes of dress, many of which also technically have religious origins and significance, can be deemed "cultural" and hence "secular" and hence "neutral." These are just language games.

So, this kerfuffle about black robes and the headscarf is a perfect example of secularism fabricating neutral ground in order to artificially maintain a hollow semblance of impartiality.

I also want to mention something about religious freedom. As I keep emphasizing, as Muslims we should not resort to freedom of religion arguments to defend ourselves against the secular assault. We should instead point out the internal contradictions of secularism (e.g., like I do above) and force the secularists to admit that their problem with the Muslim headscarf is nothing more than cultural bias. If they can admit that, fine. But we should not allow them to get away with pretending that their opposition to the hijab is due to some rational commitment to neutrality and even-handedness because, as we have seen, that is clearly not the case.

At the end of the day, if they want to insist that their objections to the hijab are due to cultural bias, Muslims can live with that. Because in Muslim societies, we should feel comfortable instituting our own standards of dress, standards which are not due to ever-changing cultural whims but based on our religious values and standards of decency and modesty set by God. This is where we want the discussion to end up.




Judges should be naaayyyyyyyyyked to maintain perfect neutrality....there is something more to add this, but I will be banned if I mentioned all that here.
 
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You do know all the silk traveled from China and India to Europe, speaking of influence
Lovely german ladies
3dee1cdd4fb9e87e9a7855c6f79d363c.jpg
 
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