General Kayani speaks up against the Kerry Lugar Bill

[jeypore]

It is nothing but more arrogance and abuse.

Isn't that the tone of the future to come. The double game is played so far, isn't it!!!!!


Anyways, it is not really the question of aid more then what America is facing now. It is in dire strait situation where every money is accounted for. The dollar has become dollar now, and I like it.

 

[fatman17]

Pak Army consulted on aid bill: Berman

WASHINGTON: The Kerry-Lugar bill outlines a joint strategy that was drawn up with help from Pakistan’s military, Democratic Representative Howard Berman, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said on Thursday.

He said members of Pakistan’s military had been familiar with provisions of the measure as it worked its way through the US House and Senate. “I’ve been in touch with them (the military) through this whole process. I’ve spoken with Chief of Army Staff Ashfaq Pervez Kayani. It’s a common strategy,” he said. “This joint strategy is that we want to assist their efforts to take on the counterinsurgency, to disband terrorist groups within Pakistan, to protect their nuclear facilities from proliferation,” Berman said. Berman said that since April, both the government of Pakistan and the military “have shown a strong willingness to take on key elements of the insurgency, and with some success”. Berman said Pakistani critics were manufacturing a crisis over $7.5 billion in US aid for political reasons. “This is a created crisis, by people who either haven’t read the bill or don’t want to describe it accurately, and whose goal is either to destabilise the (Pakistani) government, or challenge some of the military’s priorities,” he said. Berman is the House sponsor of the legislation that was drafted with Senate sponsors Democrat John Kerry and Republican Richard Lugar. It has no strings attached on development aid, but stipulates conditions for security aid, saying Islamabad must show commitment to fighting terrorism and dismantling nuclear networks.

reuters

the politial spin has started

 

[fatman17]

EDITORIAL: Consequences of saying ‘no’

The stage is set for the National Assembly to deliver a resounding no to the Kerry Lugar Bill. From the United States perspective this would be ironic because the same bill also avowedly states the US intention to strengthen democracy in Pakistan. And parliament embodies the concept of democracy! While earlier such aid-related legislations also contained “conditionalities” that the US waived in light of the importance of the bilateral relationship, some provisions of this bill are being looked at as more intrusive. What happens if the parliament says no? Chances are that the US president, who is sitting on the Bill, may try and get its text changed to remove some parts that give offence to Pakistan.

US Ambassador to Pakistan Anne W Patterson says clauses in the Kerry-Lugar Bill regarding the Pakistan Army “are a big mistake”. She says Washington had gone the extra mile to assure the government that the bill was not detrimental to Pakistan’s sovereignty, but concedes “the draft of the bill was poorly written”. There is therefore clearly a chance that President Barack Obama may return the Bill and ask the Congress to make the desired changes. Short of that, can the military elites of the two sides come to an understanding on the present text?

Given the high temperature of offended opinion in Pakistan and the army’s sensitivity to it, this may not happen. The required “amendment” in the text will take some time, if thought fit, but the US wants certain things done by Pakistan in the near future to buttress its crumbling Afghan policy before President Obama sends in more US troops amid gallup polls pointing to the rapidly falling popularity of the war. The Pakistan army is ready to launch an attack in South Waziristan and may now hold back on it because of what it finds offensive in the Bill.

If the two sides part company on the war, both will get hurt. Al Qaeda has appointed its new leader to the Taliban in Pakistan and has struck in quick succession in Islamabad and Kabul. More of that may be in store for Pakistan in the coming days especially because the Taliban are under pressure because of the successful operations in Bajaur and Malakand. Now the army is poised to go into South Waziristan and the Taliban groups are already feeling the heat.

Because of the Bill’s wording the Pakistan army and the US have fallen apart at a time when both needed each other’s operations. The idea that was gelling was that both will have a kind of pincers strategy, Pakistan pressuring the Taliban in South Waziristan and the US troops targeting the Afghan warlords in North Waziristan. This is not the moment for a parting of the ways. Yet, the high emotion in the country is clearly hinting at a clean break with the US because someone in Washington thought that the Bill could be sold in its present form.

If Pakistan goes it alone, it will have to brave the consequences. In anticipation of the Kerry-Lugar Bill passage in the US Congress, the stock market in Pakistan lifted up sharply, “outperforming the rest of Asia in the third quarter”. The rise was driven in part by 15 straight weeks of net inflows that brought USD240 million of capital from foreign investors into the market. At the same time remittances touched a new high, compelling Interior Minister Rehman Malik to say “foreign remittances could replace foreign aid”. Pakistan tested the bomb in 1998 and thought foreign remittances could bail it out after the sanctions were applied. But the remittances never came. There are important economic factors that go beyond the “paltry” sum of $7.5 billion which must not be ignored while the national emotion hits the high curves.

The common feeling is that the American money doesn’t mean much to Pakistan and should be rejected together with the American “******” strategy that leaves Kashmir out. This feeling assumes that the moment Pakistan breaks free of the “shackles of American imperialism” things will automatically fall in place for Pakistan. The feeling must translate into deep analysis. Sovereignty is a function of great institutional harmony and responsibility, not just that of emotion. Are we prepared.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[fatman17]

US Senate committee separates myth from facts in Kerry-Lugar bill

* Report says $7.5 billion aid only non-military
* Bill an extension of US, Pak friendship, does not impinge on Pak sovereignty
* Nothing in bill regarding US drone attacks in Pak

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: The US Senate Committee of Foreign Relations has compared the myths surrounding the Kerry-Lugar bill against the facts of the controversial clauses of the legislation.

The US wants to transform its relationship with Pakistan into a deeper, broader, long-term strategic engagement with the people of Pakistan, the document said. The Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act, also known as the Kerry-Lugar bill, was designed to help turn the page in our bilateral relationship by moving beyond a military relationship to one where the US engages directly with the people of Pakistan as a true ally and friend, it said.

“The heart of this bill gives the people of Pakistan $7.5 billion over five years (2010-2014) in non-military aid. This bill should be seen for what it is, a true sign of US friendship with the people of Pakistan. The language in the bill was carefully negotiated between Senators Kerry and Lugar and Representative Berman with the concurrence of the US State and Defence Departments. The bill was passed unanimously on a bipartisan basis by the US Congress in September 2009,” the document read.

One purpose: The $7.5 billion authorised is all for non-military aid. These funds are unconditional. They are a pledge of US friendship to the Pakistani people. There are strict measures of financial accountability on these funds that Congress is imposing on the US executive branch, not the Pakistani government, to make sure the money is being spent properly and for the purposes intended. Such accountability measures have been welcomed by Pakistani commentators to ensure that funds meant for schools, roads and clinics actually reach the Pakistani people and are not wasted, it stated.

For friendship: Regarding the myth that the bill impinges on Pakistan’s sovereignty, the document said it (the bill) was an extended hand of friendship, from the US people to the people of Pakistan. It would fund schools, roads, energy infrastructure, and medical clinics. Even when the US is going through a deep recession and tough economic times, it is pledging $7.5 billion as a long-term commitment to Pakistan. Those seeking to undermine this partnership, to advance their own narrow partisan or institutional agendas, are doing a serious disservice to the people of the US and of Pakistan.

About the myth that the bill placed onerous condition on US military id to Pakistan that interferes in the country’s internal affairs, the document said the bill did not discuss the levels of US military aid to Pakistan, which would be determined year by year depending on events on the ground. The purpose of this bill was to focus on nonmilitary assistance to the people of Pakistan. To the extent that the bill authorises military aid, the conditions require US President Barack Obama to certify to the US Congress that Pakistan “is continuing to cooperate with the US” on nuclear nonproliferation, it “is making significant efforts towards combating terrorist groups,” including Al Qaeda, the Taliban and their affiliates and the Pakistani military is not “subverting the political or judicial processes” of the nation.

The document said each of these conditions was the stated policy of the Pakistani government, the major Pakistani opposition parties, and the Pakistani military. The conditions ask nothing beyond what Pakistan’s own leaders have already promised. Pakistan and the US share common goals to bolster security and democracy in the region and have been working together as allies towards these goals. The language in the bill reflects this understanding and commitment by the people of Pakistan in furthering regional stability and democracy.

Regarding the myth that the bill requires US oversight on promotions and other internal operations of the Pakistani military, the document said it stems from an item to be included in one of the monitoring reports. It requires US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to describe the extent to which civilian authorities exercise control over the Pakistani military.

Not mentioned: Regarding the myth that the bill expanded the US drone attack programme in Pakistan, the document said the bill was about delivering economic development, education, health care, and other services to the people of Pakistan. There is nothing in this bill on the drone program, it added.

About the myth that the bill funded activities with Pakistan by private US security firms, the document said the issue of how private security firms operated in Pakistan had nothing to do with this bill.

The document said all of the money authorised in this bill was for non-military, civilian purposes and did not aim for an expanded US military footprint in Pakistan.

It said that as part of the bill, the US was asking its embassy in Islamabad to take an enormous amount of responsibility and oversight. The embassy may need to add on additional staff to help implement billions of dollars in aid. This is a logical step and should not be read as anything more than that. Such staffing decisions will follow the normal course of conduct, as governed by agreements between the Governments of Pakistan and the US, the document said.

more spin

 

[fatman17]

US treats Pakistan with suspicion: Musharraf

* More US troops needed in Afghanistan
* Former president says Pakistan’s nuclear assets are in ‘safe hands’

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Although Pakistan has been touted as America’s most important ally in the fight against terrorism, “this most important ally is being treated with suspicion”, former President Pervez Musharraf said on Friday.

Appearing on National Public Radio’s ‘Talk of the Nation’, the former president said he supported Gen Stanley McChrystal in his call for additional US troops for Afghanistan. Musharraf said the US counter-terrorism approach, which calls for drone attacks on terrorist hideouts, and the strategy calling for additional troops could not be separated because of the linkages between the terrorist groups, Al Qaeda and the Taliban, Musharraf stood by Pakistan’s military, and said he would need the support of the country’s people to return to politics.

Safety guaranteed: When asked about US concerns on the safety of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, Musharraf said the country’s nuclear weapons were in safe hands and were well guarded by an army force of up to 18,000 troops, adding the nukes were controlled by a command authority led by the country’s president, prime minister and top military officials.

“Politically, Pakistan cannot in the foreseeable future be ruled by an extremist group that sympathises with the terrorists,” Musharraf said. The former president said he sided with the Pakistani military in its anger over the conditions that could be attached to the Kerry-Lugar bill.

Military officials have complained that the bill contains “humiliating” conditions. The bill stipulates, for instance, that the money could dry up if Pakistan fails to fight militants, including Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters in the tribal regions along the Pak-Afghan border.

Musharraf defended his country’s preoccupation with what he called “an existential threat to Pakistan” from neighbouring India. Although he said that he believed peace with India was “a requirement, a compulsion” for both sides, he said the US should not grudge Pakistan the right to take “essential measures” in response to the threat of an attack from India.

That right, he said, would extend to any use Pakistan might make of US drone aircrafts. The former president said he did not approve of US drone attacks inside Pakistan. “It has had tremendous negative fallout on the public of Pakistan, because it is considered a violation of our sovereignty,” he said.

 

[Awesome]

The US is not going to give up on the Afghan war just because Pakistan refuses aid. They will continue to pay the reimbursements of war and hence Pakistan CAN sweeten its pot by raising the costs or at least get the cost of war footed by the US.

We can still carry out the Waziristan offensive on that ticket. This is just plain ol' brinkmanship and it will all depend upon who blinks first.

 

[alirulesall123]

WASHINGTON: US Senator John Kerry, one of the co-authors of the Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act, has issued a list of 'myths and facts' about the proposed legislation also known as the Kerry-Lugar bill.

This is how he explained the bill:

Myth: The $7.5 billion authorised by the bill comes with strings attached for the people of Pakistan.

Fact: There are no conditions on Pakistan attached to these funds. There are, however, strict measures of financial accountability on these funds that Congress is imposing on the US executive branch — not the Pakistani government, to make sure the money is being spent properly and for the purposes intended.

Such accountability measures have been welcomed by Pakistani commentators to ensure that funds meant for schools, roads and clinics actually reach the Pakistani people and are not wasted.

Myth: The bill impinges on Pakistan’s sovereignty.

Fact: Nothing in the bill threatens Pakistani sovereignty.

Myth: The bill places onerous conditions on US military aid to Pakistan that interfere in Pakistan’s internal affairs and imply that Pakistan supports terrorism and nuclear proliferation.

Fact: The conditions on military aid reinforce the stated policy of the government of Pakistan, major Pakistani opposition parties, and the Pakistani military and are the basis of bilateral cooperation between the United States and Pakistan.

Myth: The bill requires US oversight on promotions and other internal operations of the Pakistani military.

Fact: There is absolutely no such requirement or desire.

Myth: The bill expands the Predator programme of drone attacks on targets within Pakistan.

Fact: There is absolutely nothing in the bill related to drones.

Myth: The bill funds activities within Pakistan by private US security firms, such as Dyncorp and Blackwater/Xe.

Fact: The bill does not include any language on private US security firms. The issue of how private security firms operate in Pakistan has nothing to do with this bill. The laws governing such firms —which are employed by many US embassies and consulates throughout the world — are not affected by this bill in any way.

Myth: The bill aims for an expanded US military footprint in Pakistan.

Fact: The bill does not provide a single dollar for US military operations. All of the money authorised in this bill is for non-military, civilian purposes.

Myth: The United States is expanding its physical footprint in Pakistan, using the bill as a justification for why the US Embassy in Islamabad needs more space and security.

Fact: As the US Embassy in Islamabad works diligently over the next five years to properly distribute the $7.5 billion to the people of Pakistan, it will need to take into account its own personnel and security needs to make sure it has the right staff with the right expertise on hand. This is common sense.

I still can't believe the stupidity surrounding the hysteria of this bill. The last time America gave money to us, it was through a NON-DEMOCRATIC government, with no strings attached, and everyone complained about how the money didn't go to the people. Now that the USA wants to monitor the aid, we're bitching about sovereignty? Give me a ******* break. Pakitsan faces suicide attacks everyday, and most people have no access to clean water. Why can't we focus on those things? Even Dr. AQ Khan was talking about how the bill "besmirched" Pakistan. I mean really, coming from the guy that sold nuclear secrets to rogue nations around the world, and sent Pakistan's reputation straight down the drain? Come on people, grow up please.

 

[Student]

WASHINGTON: US Senator John Kerry, one of the co-authors of the Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act, has issued a list of 'myths and facts' about the proposed legislation also known as the Kerry-Lugar bill.

John Kerry can take this bill where sun does not shine

This is how he explained the bill:

This is how this bill is sold to stooge MR Z and his cronies

Myth: The $7.5 billion authorised by the bill comes with strings attached for the people of Pakistan.

Fact: There are no conditions on Pakistan attached to these funds. There are, however, strict measures of financial accountability on these funds that Congress is imposing on the US executive branch — not the Pakistani government, to make sure the money is being spent properly and for the purposes intended.

This bill is a formal declaration of making Richard Butcher the official Viceroy of Pakistan

Such accountability measures have been welcomed by so called Pakistani commentators to ensure that funds meant for schools, roads and clinics actually reach Mr Z and building mini pentagon and are not wasted.

Myth: The bill impinges on Pakistan’s sovereignty.

Fact: Nothing in the bill threatens Pakistani sovereignty.

Every Statement in this bill is a disgrace.

Myth: The bill places onerous conditions on US military aid to Pakistan that interfere in Pakistan’s internal affairs and imply that Pakistan supports terrorism and nuclear proliferation.

Fact: The conditions on military aid reinforce the stated policy of the government of Pakistan, major Pakistani opposition parties, and the Pakistani military and are the basis of bilateral cooperation between the United States and Pakistan.

This so called bill is Mr Z specific and ensures another Husni Mubarak for Pakistan

Myth: The bill requires US oversight on promotions and other internal operations of the Pakistani military.

Fact: There is absolutely no such requirement or desire.

This is what we call libral fascist propoganda.

Myth: The bill expands the Predator programme of drone attacks on targets within Pakistan.

Fact: There is absolutely nothing in the bill related to drones.

The attacks are taking place on daily basis. Stop telling lies. just google drones

Myth: The bill funds activities within Pakistan by private US security firms, such as Dyncorp and Blackwater/Xe.

Fact: The bill does not include any language on private US security firms. The issue of how private security firms operate in Pakistan has nothing to do with this bill. The laws governing such firms —which are employed by many US embassies and consulates throughout the world — are not affected by this bill in any way.

XE has already established itself in Pakistan and Mr Rehman Malik got there guys released several times and they gave a beatup to the security official after getting scot free due to Rehman Maliks interference

Myth: The bill aims for an expanded US military footprint in Pakistan.

Fact: The bill does not provide a single dollar for US military operations. All of the money authorised in this bill is for non-military, civilian purposes.

This bill is directly going to finance building mini pentagon in Pakistan.

Myth: The United States is expanding its physical footprint in Pakistan, using the bill as a justification for why the US Embassy in Islamabad needs more space and security.

Fact: As the US Embassy in Islamabad works diligently over the next five years to properly distribute the $7.5 billion to the people of Pakistan, it will need to take into account its own personnel and security needs to make sure it has the right staff with the right expertise on hand. This is common sense.

This bill will distribute plenty of money to the most rich team beggers and stooges of the world Mr Z and Company

I still can't believe the stupidity surrounding the hysteria of this bill. The last time America gave money to us, it was through a NON-DEMOCRATIC government, with no strings attached, and everyone complained about how the money didn't go to the people. Now that the USA wants to monitor the aid, we're bitching about sovereignty? Give me a ******* break. Pakitsan faces suicide attacks everyday, and most people have no access to clean water. Why can't we focus on those things? Even Dr. AQ Khan was talking about how the bill "besmirched" Pakistan. I mean really, coming from the guy that sold nuclear secrets to rogue nations around the world, and sent Pakistan's reputation straight down the drain? Come on people, grow up please.

Libral Fascist lies from a person who has no stake in Pakistan and playing the propoganda war machine war game.

Kerry Lugar Bill is not acceptable to the people of Pakistan.

 

[alirulesall123]

Libral Fascist lies from a person who has no stake in Pakistan and playing the propoganda war machine war game.

Do you have any sources or evidence for any of the facts that you have stated? I bet you haven't even read the actualy bill. And pray tell me, how am i a "liberal fascist"? Is this the term that Right wing Pakistanis use to describe people that don't think like them? And who are YOU to say I have no stake in Pakistan? I am Pakistani, I have family in Pakistan, just like you. Just because i'm not sitting in Pakistan listening to Taliban Propaganda like you doesn't mean I have no connection to my country.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Zardari Looking To Replace Kayani?

AHORE: Amidst rising tension between Pakistan’s civilian government and the country’s military tops brass over some controversial provisions of the Kerry-Lugar Bill, there are reports that President Asif Zardari has been contemplating to replace Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani for his persistent opposition to the USD 7.5 billion American financial assistance programme.

The Pakistani military leadership has already made public its opposition to the Kerry-Lugar Bill by issuing a formal press release following the October 7, 2009 corps commanders’ conference which evoked immediate panic at the presidency and in government corridors. The statement issued by the military spokesman expressed serious concern over some of the provisions of the legislative bill and warned that these could affect ’national security’. Unlike previous no-strings US aid packages, Kerry-Lugar non-military financial assistance bill makes support conditional on Pakistan’s military being subordinated to its elected government, and taking action against militants sheltering on its soil. The Pakistani military leadership’s ire is focused on the Kerry-Lugar Bill’s specific requirements that the US Secretary of State certify, at six-month intervals, that the Pakistani military remains under civilian oversight, even specifying such details as the need for the government to control senior command promotions.

Kerry-Lugar also requires that the Pakistani military act against militant networks on its soil, specifying those based in Quetta and Muridke. However, the Presidency has dismissed the concerns of the military leadership, with President Zardari forging ahead with his unwavering support for the bill. The presidential spokesman Farhatullah Babar, while commenting on the press release issued by the military after the corps commanders’ conference, has said that there are established channels for the Pakistan Army to express its views and these should have been followed instead of making public the issue. These developments, especially after the corps commanders meeting in Rawalpindi to discuss the Kerry-Lugar Bill, even caused rumours about President Zardari’s possible sacking of the Army Chief General Kayani.

Amidst all these developments, the Pakistani ministry of defense has informed the presidency in a recent communiqué that seven senior generals of Pakistan Army including Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (JCSC) General Tariq Majid, and three senior corps commanders are due to retire by November 28, 2010. Well informed sources in the ministry of defense say the presidency has been provided with the most up-to-date seniority list of the 30-plus serving generals and lieutenant generals of Pakistan Army, in the backdrop of the October 7 corps commanders’ conference in Rawalpindi, which expressed serious concerns on certain clauses of the Kerry-Lugar Bill, maintaining that they were bound to affect national security.

The seniority list, which is now carefully being scanned by the presidency, seems to have been updated till October 4, 2009 when four major generals of the Army were promoted by COAS General Ashfaq Kayani to the rank of lieutenant generals, including Maj-Gen Shafqat Ahmed, Maj-Gen Khalid Nawaz, Maj-Gen Alam Khattak, and Maj-Gen Sardar Mehmood. These promotions were made following the September 23, 2009 retirements of four three-star generals including Lt-Gen Muhammad Masood Aslam, Corps Commander Peshawar, Lt-Gen Hamid Khan, President of the National Defence University, Islamabad, Lt-Gen General Raza Mohammad Khan, Director General Joint Staff and Lt-Gen. Shafaat Ullah Shah, Chief of Logistics Staff, GHQ.

However, approached for comments, the presidential spokesman Farhatullah Babar strongly refuted media reports that President Zardari wanted to remove General Ashfaq Kayani for making public the concerns of the corps commander to the Kerry-Lugar Bill. He said such reports were in fact a deliberate attempt to undermine President Asif Zardari. He said the issue was being politicized by vested interests despite the fact that the Kerry-Lugar Bill has nothing against the national interests and sovereignty of the country. “Let me make it clear that no one in Pakistan would want the security apparatus or for that anyone to subvert Pakistan’s political judicial institutions and processes. The hype about adverse conditions attached to the Kerry-Lugar Bill is simply unfounded and part of the attempt to delegitimize President Asif Zardari”, Farhatullah Babar concluded.
Zardari Looking To Replace Kayani? Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz

 

[fatman17]

ASIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2009

Jane's Defence Weekly

Pakistan Army criticises US aid bill

Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent - Islamabad

Pakistan's top army generals cited "serious concern" over issues related to "national security" on 7 October in a rare public criticism of a US aid bill to the country.

The Pakistani military's criticism - spelt out in a statement after army chief General Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani met with his top generals - prompted speculation that US plans to stabilise Afghanistan could be jeopardised without more comprehensive military co-operation from Pakistan.

The military's criticism followed the passage of the Kerry-Lugar Bill, passed by the US Congress and named after its sponsors: senators John Kerry and Richard Lugar. The bill seeks to triple annual non-military assistance to Pakistan to USD1.5 billion a year over the next five years. Provisions of particular interest to the Pakistani military include one that seeks Pakistan's support in dismantling illegal supply networks for nuclear material by sharing "relevant information from or direct access to Pakistani nationals associated with such networks".

Pakistan's nuclear programme is widely believed to be controlled by the military. The programme has a controversial recent past, given that five years ago Abdul Qadeer Khan, the founder of Pakistan's nuclear programme, was revealed to have been trading nuclear expertise and technology with Iran, Libya and possibly North Korea.

Following those revelations, Pakistan has resisted Western pressure for Khan to be interviewed, along with others active in his network, although Islamabad has offered full co-operation with efforts to curb global proliferation.

The military also appeared to have been particularly stung by provisions in the Kerry-Lugar Bill that require a periodic assessment of the extent to which Pakistan's civilian government is able to exert control over the military.

The bill also seeks a periodic assessment of the extent to which Pakistan is supporting efforts to curb terrorism in the region. "The forum expressed serious concern regarding clauses impacting on national security," said the military's statement after a meeting of the top generals.

Western defence officials in Islamabad said the military's reaction highlighted a potentially serious setback to Pakistan's carefully built ties with the US, which emerged in the wake of the 9/11 attacks and the Bush administration's declaration of the 'war on terror', with Pakistan playing a major role in supporting the US/NATO military effort in Afghanistan. "If there is trouble in this relationship, that could cause problems for the US military effort," said one Western defence official in Islamabad.

However, a senior Pakistani government official said the military's statement was not likely to derail relations with the US. "On the contrary, we just want to remind the Americans that their approach will only weaken an otherwise close relationship," he said. The Western defence official who spoke to Jane's said the future now depends on how US President Barack Obama reacts to Pakistan's response to the aid bill.

 

[asq]

So how long before da sh!t hits da fan? Caan I get a box seat just like da last time I saw Mush order his men to climb gates?

On a serious note, this seems to be fear mongering to undermine the civilian govt and control the aid money. Gen Kiyani doesnt seem like a person interested in political power and hopefully restrains others from launching another coup. If the civilian govt collapses, Pakistan would face another 'dark' decade, atleast, like the 2000's.

Gubbi. it seems that you are anticipating something, it is like wishing ill to happen in Pakistan, I hope and pray that u and all others who are secretly wishing termoil in Pakistan are proved wrong as morality and truth is on Pakiatan side.

And God knows the truth and the inner thoughts of all humans and knows that we the Pakistani have stood for humanity and truth and have stood against the tyrants, There are those who twist matters to suit their agendas,and they will be not only exposed but will be punished for ill acts and inhuman acts.

We have made mistakes as we the Pakistanis are humans, but try not to be oppressors and not victimise others as it is being carried out in Kashmir for 60 years.

 

[IceCold]

Do you have any sources or evidence for any of the facts that you have stated? I bet you haven't even read the actualy bill. And pray tell me, how am i a "liberal fascist"? Is this the term that Right wing Pakistanis use to describe people that don't think like them? And who are YOU to say I have no stake in Pakistan? I am Pakistani, I have family in Pakistan, just like you. Just because i'm not sitting in Pakistan listening to Taliban Propaganda like you doesn't mean I have no connection to my country.

You are not listening to taliban propaganda but definitely listening to western propaganda as evident from various posts of yours. Rest assured no one in Pakistan listens to what taliban have to say i doubt if the % is even close to 5%.