Gen. Raheel---Yemen Crisis---Feb 2019

[PakAlp]

Gen Raheel Shareef had held command posts throughout his career. When you command troops over and over again, you realize the importance of your troops, a bond is developed, you want the best for your troops and you want the best for your country. Its not a compromise, it a win-win situation. A Pakistani soldier will give up his life on one command of his commanding officer, but would the values and ethics and morals and training and experience of that commanding officer allow him to send troops elsewhere when they are badly needed to Protect Pakistan first. Even then the commander asks for volunteers for a certain mission. I have no doubts that if General Raheel Shareef would have asked for volunteers, every formation commander would have kept Pakistan's interests in perspective by realizing that the war inside Pakistan is not finished yet. The two fronts (LOC and border with Afghanistan) that india had opened long ago were not dealt with completely. Its a fact which can be seen today also, when the escalation with India occured, the formations sent from east to west were at once called back to the east against India. And at this point FATA has been rid of turmoil almost completely. Back then Ops were going on in FATA while Baluchistan was in pipeline. If Pakistan had sent soldiers abroad, Pakistan would have witnessed 25-30% more bomb blasts in cities claiming lives of Pakistani citizens, FATA Ops would have taken longer, perhaps another 2-3 more years and losses of FC and soldiers would have increased. The cost of destruction (human lives, infrastructure etc) over the nest few years would have been the same as the cost of buying new military hardware. Instead Raheel Shareef was tactical enough to deploy soldiers where he deemed best for Pakistan and the proof is the amount of bomb blasts and damage to Pakistan that has decreased over the years, while successful conduct of Ops in western Pakistan.

Commanding officers do not conduct business with lives of their soldiers, this is not leadership. Command throws incentive to soldiers to carry out an operation, they are human beings, they are motivated before any operation through Pep talk or sermon given by the commander. They are not robots. When the entire military formation knows that Pakistan is in turmoil and needs them but they need to be sent elsewhere to safe guard interests of others, the fighting morale will take a hit. The conscience will take a hit. You may give a lecture on Ummah and spread of Islam, but side by side you cannot ignore the fact that Pakistani civilians dying in bomb blasts, car bombs, suicide attacks etc are also part of their own Ummah. Just for the sake of money, dont bat an eye lid for the sake of lives of Pakistani civilians but garner full strength for the sake of Ummah abroad ?

Would the commander be honest and tell them that you are being sent from one hell hole to another because Pakistan wants to buy aircrafts, tanks, subs and the cost is your blood. Pakistani Military spends up to 3 Lac ruppees initially to train a cadet in PMA to become an officer and roughly 1 lac Rs to train a soldier from a recruit. If they are to be used as mercenaries for monetary gains, then its best to contact fighting volunteers/hired guns and send them to aid the Ummah abroad.

Pakistani Armed Forces are human beings, trained soldiers, not machinery and other assets which are supposed to increase investment. A materialistic eye would look at these soldiers and get $$$ signs in eyes, whereas a commander would look at them valuing their life and order them to defend motherland as priority one.

It seems OP has never been given a command or a leadership post, this is not how commanders and leaders bargain the lives of their soldiers.

Spot on.
Imagine Pakistan had 150k troops on Arab borders and the GCC decided to invade Qatar. Who would be sacrificing their lives?

Pakistan has said countless times they would defend Saudi Qatar UAE Bahrain Kuwait if anyone attacks them. Then why are they still not happy. They want foot soldiers to fight their wars that's all

 

[Khanate]

It wasn't a folly...it was master stroke..it would stretch Pakistani army too far..and too thin..giving India a chance of aggression...the Arabs were not offering any funds...and will not come to rescue in any Pak vs India...recent OIC fiasco being an example...Arabs have far bigger investments in India..and to give them security is directly giving them stability to grow their investments in India further....

its not worth fighting losing battle..the war of Yemen is going no where...and unless the Arabs come with 100 Billion USD Cash and offer all the latest toys unconditionally...its not worth...Pakistan should also withdraw from this Joker OIC...and chart its own path.

Security and economy is inter related..first we need to see $$$$ then we will be happy to protect our business partners....stop chanting this mantra of we will protect holy places and ummah chummah...

Saddam was promised all sorts of things in lieu of a war on Iran. In the end, nothing materialised and Saddam, in anger, invaded Kuwait. What happened to Saddam and Iraq next is history.

 

[MastanKhan]

It wasn't a folly...it was master stroke..it would stretch Pakistani army too far..and too thin..giving India a chance of aggression...the Arabs were not offering any funds...and will not come to rescue in any Pak vs India...recent OIC fiasco being an example...Arabs have far bigger investments in India..and to give them security is directly giving them stability to grow their investments in India further....

its not worth fighting losing battle..the war of Yemen is going no where...and unless the Arabs come with 100 Billion USD Cash and offer all the latest toys unconditionally...its not worth...Pakistan should also withdraw from this Joker OIC...and chart its own path.

Security and economy is inter related..first we need to see $$$$ then we will be happy to protect our business partners....stop chanting this mantra of we will protect holy places and ummah chummah...

Gen Raheel Shareef had held command posts throughout his career. When you command troops over and over again, you realize the importance of your troops, a bond is developed, you want the best for your troops and you want the best for your country. Its not a compromise, it a win-win situation. A Pakistani soldier will give up his life on one command of his commanding officer, but would the values and ethics and morals and training and experience of that commanding officer allow him to send troops elsewhere when they are badly needed to Protect Pakistan first. Even then the commander asks for volunteers for a certain mission. I have no doubts that if General Raheel Shareef would have asked for volunteers, every formation commander would have kept Pakistan's interests in perspective by realizing that the war inside Pakistan is not finished yet. The two fronts (LOC and border with Afghanistan) that india had opened long ago were not dealt with completely. Its a fact which can be seen today also, when the escalation with India occured, the formations sent from east to west were at once called back to the east against India. And at this point FATA has been rid of turmoil almost completely. Back then Ops were going on in FATA while Baluchistan was in pipeline. If Pakistan had sent soldiers abroad, Pakistan would have witnessed 25-30% more bomb blasts in cities claiming lives of Pakistani citizens, FATA Ops would have taken longer, perhaps another 2-3 more years and losses of FC and soldiers would have increased. The cost of destruction (human lives, infrastructure etc) over the nest few years would have been the same as the cost of buying new military hardware. Instead Raheel Shareef was tactical enough to deploy soldiers where he deemed best for Pakistan and the proof is the amount of bomb blasts and damage to Pakistan that has decreased over the years, while successful conduct of Ops in western Pakistan.

Commanding officers do not conduct business with lives of their soldiers, this is not leadership. Command throws incentive to soldiers to carry out an operation, they are human beings, they are motivated before any operation through Pep talk or sermon given by the commander. They are not robots. When the entire military formation knows that Pakistan is in turmoil and needs them but they need to be sent elsewhere to safe guard interests of others, the fighting morale will take a hit. The conscience will take a hit. You may give a lecture on Ummah and spread of Islam, but side by side you cannot ignore the fact that Pakistani civilians dying in bomb blasts, car bombs, suicide attacks etc are also part of their own Ummah. Just for the sake of money, dont bat an eye lid for the sake of lives of Pakistani civilians but garner full strength for the sake of Ummah abroad ?

Would the commander be honest and tell them that you are being sent from one hell hole to another because Pakistan wants to buy aircrafts, tanks, subs and the cost is your blood. Pakistani Military spends up to 3 Lac ruppees initially to train a cadet in PMA to become an officer and roughly 1 lac Rs to train a soldier from a recruit. If they are to be used as mercenaries for monetary gains, then its best to contact fighting volunteers/hired guns and send them to aid the Ummah abroad.

Pakistani Armed Forces are human beings, trained soldiers, not machinery and other assets which are supposed to increase investment. A materialistic eye would look at these soldiers and get $$$ signs in eyes, whereas a commander would look at them valuing their life and order them to defend motherland as priority one.

It seems OP has never been given a command or a leadership post, this is not how commanders and leaders bargain the lives of their soldiers.

Hi,

Are both of you guys living in lala land---. What would spread the army thin---and against what threat---.

India would be neutered once yemen influence was accepted---.

There are hundreds of officers and thousands of men who had joined early and ar still young to command---.

Starting with 50 K troops and building up on them.

You guys think that the fortunes of nations are built by sitting protected---and everything would end well.

Spot on.
Imagine Pakistan had 150k troops on Arab borders and the GCC decided to invade Qatar. Who would be sacrificing their lives?

Pakistan has said countless times they would defend Saudi Qatar UAE Bahrain Kuwait if anyone attacks them. Then why are they still not happy. They want foot soldiers to fight their wars that's all

Hi,

You kids---are eternally s-----. What the f--- you kids know about conquests---future---nothing---all you can do is watch indian movies---and talk big---.

Whimpering pakistani kids---.

I swear to you guys---when I read responses---it tells me who comes from a WARRIOR CLAN---and who comes from a background of servitude---you kids are open like a book---.

You kids have no concept of conquests---whimpering about dying and blood---. That is what men do---they fight wars---they conquer places---and they die as a result of that---.

 

[Counter-Errorist]

Hi,

Are both of you guys living in lala land---. What would spread the army thin---and against what threat---.

India would be neutered once yemen influence was accepted---.

There are hundreds of officers and thousands of men who had joined early and ar still young to command---.

Starting with 50 K troops and building up on them.

You guys think that the fortunes of nations are built by sitting protected---and everything would end well.

Arabs think of us as slaves. Having 50K of our troops would have emboldened them to start more wars. They would have very likely sent our troops over to Qatar. And sent off our soldiers to die to settle their personal feuds. Then in the end still wouldn't have supported us over India. As much as I respect your opinion, you're way off on this assessment.

 

[MastanKhan]

Trading lives of Pakistan's soldiers for buying equipment and ordering them to die for other countries while own country was in turmoil at that time and needed boots on the ground, i certainly don't support it.

Hi you think that fortunes are made just like that---? That someone will come and put fruit in the mouth---.

Arabs think of us as slaves. Having 50K of our troops would have emboldened them to start more wars. They would have very likely sent our troops over to Qatar. And sent off our soldiers to die to settle their personal feuds. Then in the end still wouldn't have supported us over India. As much as I respect your opinion, you're way off on this assessment.

Gutless Whimpering Cowards---make my blood boil in this coming old age---.

 

[PakAlp]

Hi,

Hi,
You kids---are eternally s-----. What the f--- you kids know about conquests---future---nothing---all you can do is watch indian movies---and talk big---.

Whimpering pakistani kids---.

I swear to you guys---when I read responses---it tells me who comes from a WARRIOR CLAN---and who comes from a background of servitude---you kids are open like a book---.

You kids have no concept of conquests---whimpering about dying and blood---. That is what men do---they fight wars---they conquer places---and they die as a result of that---.

Your gravely mistaken. We are the great minds of Pakistan . We won't let the Arab sheikhs use us. We would rather work hard and build our country, build our base, educate our youth, work hard on CPEC and make it a success, build relations with our neighbours and rise up as a great power and go from there.

Slaves and weak are those who run to Arabs for riyals and Dinars.

 

[Counter-Errorist]

Gutless Whimpering Cowards---make my blood boil in this coming old age---.

You consider it brave to slave for Arabs? Bravery was what our generals did. Averted from the glitter and gold to keep our men where they're supposed to be -- at home.

Hi you think that fortunes are made just like that---? That someone will come and put fruit in the mouth---.

I guess they're made from selling off our people as slaves. Maybe we don't want that kind of fortune.

 

[Mentee]

@Signalian @Tps43

Regardless of the pros and cons of the decision made back then - - - - - What Pakistanis needed was, to atleast stfu and keep it mum. but no we decided to verbally assault and belittle our allies in the Gulf. Uae still remembers that hence the inviting of sushma at the oic summit.


And to top it off what was the need of passing a resolution in the assembly if we already decided to not to send our forces ?

You guys think that the fortunes of nations are built by sitting protected---and everything would end well.

This ^^^

 

[Signalian]

And to top it off what was the need of passing a resolution in the assembly if we already decided to not to send our forces ?

Civil and Military worked together

 

[Mentee]

Civil and Military worked together

Screwed together!!!

 

[Signalian]

This ^^^

Protecting yourself first and sitting protected are two different things.

Screwed together!!!

Thats still an achievement, didnt use to happen earlier.

 

[Mentee]

Pakistanis want to talk big about saving the Ummah and the greater Pakistan blah blah. But when the time came they kicked the luck - - - - - - -.


I still remember the phrase used by Justice azmat Saeed khosa in his Panama papers case judgment.

"There's a crime behind every fortune"

Nobody is asking you nuts to indulge in larceny and high handedness for your ownself but for the Mumlikat Khudadad

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Arab superiority would have done what they always did. Make us expendable collateral and treat us as lower humans compared to them.

After all ana arabi, anta ajami get lost!!!

Hi,

General Raheel---when he grows older---would look back and think about his folly---that how he failed Pakistan by missing out at the opportunity of creating a military battle group to be stationed in emirates---Oman---Saudia---Qatar.

They came knocking at his door---seeking help and and asking for protection with the allowance and permission of the powers to be----requesting Pakistan to supply them with military manpower to protect and secure their region.

A true East India Company moment for Pakistan---but without the conquest---. They had posted a request of close to 50000 troops---and a good visionary---strategist & tactician would have suggested that 100K to a 150K troops would be a better number---.

It would also be better to have equipped the battle group with its own base of power ie---air force---navy---infantry---armor---artillery so that it could move and act without any hinderance of requesting acquisition and being dependent on other factors---.

When yemeni shias decided to revolt against their govt---their fate and the fate of their families was sealed---. Death destruction chaos and mayhem was looking at them in the coming future at an extremely fast rate---regardless of who the military was---.

The General failed to realize what benefits his and his troops presence would have in that region and how would pakistan fare once the job was accepted---.

Such a large number of troops would have given pakistan massive leverage over the thinking and decision making of the gulf states and most of it would have gone in Pakistan's favor.

The general also failed to recognize the impact of that decision on arch rival India as well---. With such a large force in the region---most of the jobs would be taken by the Pakistanis---and the Indian influence would diminish real real fast---.

ISIS was going to be playing havoc in the region and there was a true fear of ISIS coming to the region and creating unrest---.

But all these things which were staring right in the face of the general---were over looked by him---.

Seems like the general never read the spread of Islamic power in spain---. The berbers were invited over for help---they crossed the seas and claimed a stake and foothold in spain that lasted for 700 years---& neither did the general remember how the east india company got a foothold in the sub continent---. Nizam of Hyderabad asked for help and protection as did many other smaller Rajas and Maharajas---which ultimately succumbed to the influence of the british---.

But the real issue was for power positioning in the arena---. A 150K troops in the region---3-4 heavy strike aircraft SQDRN'S at hand---3-4 navy frigates of the type 054 category---multiple smaller ships---awacs---transport aircraft---multiple quick deployable armor divisions---and all the paraphernalia a large military task force at his disposal protecting the gulf states and covering the flanks of the enemy---.

Bottomline---the general failed miseraby to protect the future interests of pakistan---but indeed did secure a very lucrative position for himself for a very nice retirement and inheritence---. How I wish that someone could put Gen Raheel to shame for deceiving Pakistan at that juncture---.

 

[Signalian]

Pakistanis want to talk big about saving the Ummah and the greater Pakistan blah blah. But when the time came they kicked the luck - - - - - - -.

Time ? Time came ?
Pakistan has been in a war since 2002, how many jets, weapons, tanks, gunships were sent from the Gulf?

But did the time pass away on Pakistan ? No, Pakistan was still in turmoil at that time.
Have you ever travelled by air on a jet? what does the flashy lady say ? wear you mask first, then put it on other's mouth.

 

[Mentee]

Protecting yourself first and sitting protected are two different things.


Thats still an achievement, didnt use to happen earlier.

If tomorrow a war with Indian breaks out and Godforbid somehow turns out to be a strategic victory for india, would Iran or Afghanistan let our shia sunnis and Wahabis to take refuge?

Iam afraid there's going to be a genocide of my country men, so massive that our land could turn greasy and our rivers red. This thing I fear the most and would go to every extent to prevent it from happening.

Time ? Time came ?
Pakistan has been in a war since 2002, how many jets, weapons, tanks, gunships were sent from the Gulf?

But did the time pass away on Pakistan ? No, Pakistan was still in turmoil at that time.
Have you ever travelled by air on a jet? what does the flashy lady say ? wear you mask first, then put it on other's mouth.

When the opportunity came knocking at our doors we didn't welcome it.

Arab superiority would have done what they always did. Make us expendable collateral and treat us as lower humans compared to them.

After all ana arabi, anta ajami get lost!!!

Yeah we are incompetent. Cant bargain, can't challenge the moves of others. Always play mazloom and blame our blunders on hanoot o kafoot.