Gen Raheel Sharif calls Kashmir as "jugular vein of Pakistan"

[VCheng]

the settlement is very much possible, but earlier its done (and negotiation should be done secretly like camp david) the better. As times goes by, both sides will have entreched position.
Currently we Indian should focus on good governance in kashmir and giving them a sense of security. The Indian army should not be visible in any urban center there and should not be allowed in any day to day operation (without explicit request from district admin/ state govt)
If I was a kashmiri, I would be insanely angry too.

There is some merit to recognizing the presently entrenched position and converting the LoC into the international border.

 

[livingdead]

How do you factor in the accession to India? how do you factor all the developmental work and all the dams that's already been done or are ongoing? what you say is akin to giving false hope for something that's impossible. The only workable solution is we give up our claims on Pak occupied Kashmir and the present LOC becomes an IB and to maintain cross border contact - the Kashmiri's are allowed movement across and back.

its not false hope, vajpayee said whatever is humanly possible, we should do.
Investment in kashmir, well, that should be written off. Its not such a big amont. Further investment should be done based on revenue sharing basis with govt of kashmir.
And yes, northern ireland type settlement is also possible.

 

[toxic_pus]

You can close your eyes and tell yourself that "all is well" and continue living in denial for some time more ... But the fact remains "Kashmir is an internationally recognized disputed territory" and "Kashmir is a potential Nuclear Flashpoint" !!

Apples. Oranges.

The argument is not if Kashmir is 'disputed' or a supposed 'nuclear flashpoint'. The argument is if Simla Agreement precludes 3rd party mediation, including that of UN. Try at least to keep up.

 

[livingdead]

There is some merit to recognizing the presently entrenched position and converting the LoC into the international border.

problem is, its not a india-pakistan issue which can be settled relatively easily, its india-pakistan-kashmir issue.
Even if pakistan agrees, kashmiris might not.

 

[VCheng]

problem is, its not a india-pakistan issue which can be settled relatively easily, its india-pakistan-kashmir issue.
Even if pakistan agrees, kashmiris might not.

That is a good point, but the only choice that is realistically available to the Kashmiris is joining either Pakistan or India. Independence was never an option given to them, by UN or by Simla.

 

[Yeti]

Aft

@Azlan Haider we cant let go of whole of kashmir but I think some settlement can be made wrt kashmir valley where people want azadi. That will require good relation with both pakistan and china, we dont want to vacate a strategically important location and weaken our own defence. No country will do that.
I am sure you will agree, we are not talking about jammu or ladakh.

What people want azadi? have you conducted a survey? go see the last bbc poll they did in Kashmir it shows a different picture and what about the Kashmiri pandits? you asked them what they want?

 

[livingdead]

That is a good point, but the only choice that is realistically available to the Kashmiris is joining either Pakistan or India. Independence was never an option given to them, by UN or by Simla.

we are discussing about a permanent settlement, why should we limit ourselves to UN or simla agreement.
If these two had worked, we wont be discussing the issue, right?
Main issue is kashmiris dont feel they belong, and I dont think we can ever convince them. The next best option is to give them further rights that can take care majority of their complain.

 

[VCheng]

we are discussing about a permanent settlement, why should we limit ourselves to UN or simla agreement.
If these two had worked, we wont be discussing the issue, right?
Main issue is kashmiris dont feel they belong, and I dont think we can ever convince them. The next best option is to give them further rights that can take care majority of their complain.

Any settlement will require both India and Pakistan to negotiate among themselves. If both agree to let Kashmir be an autonomous region, then it can be a solution. Not likely, but within the realm of possibility, I suppose.

 

[Yeti]

we are discussing about a permanent settlement, why should we limit ourselves to UN or simla agreement.
If these two had worked, we wont be discussing the issue, right?
Main issue is kashmiris dont feel they belong, and I dont think we can ever convince them. The next best option is to give them further rights that can take care majority of their complain.

Who told you they do not feel they belong? big of a general comment no? have you done a survey on every single Kashmiri persons? just because a minority feel this way why must you say all Kashmiris? lol

 

[livingdead]

Aft


What people want azadi? have you conducted a survey? go see the last bbc poll they did in Kashmir it shows a different picture and what about the Kashmiri pandits? you asked them what they want?

I was only talking about valley and pandits are minority. Their voice counts and in the settlement we should make sure their safety is take care of.
Majority in valey want independence, even our own media says so.

Who told you they do not feel they belong? big of a general comment no? have you done a survey on every single Kashmiri persons? just because a minority feel this way why must you say all Kashmiris? lol

you are welcome to believe whatever you want. I am convinced that majority in valley want azadi. It does not mean they hate us necessarily.

 

[Yeti]

I was only talking about valley and pandits are minority. Their voice counts and in the settlement we should make sure their safety is take care of.
Majority in valey want independence, even our own media says so.

What poll done by our media in the valley suggest this? let me ask you a question there is parts of Bradford that feel they want to be bradistan does that mean the UK govt will give to them? hell no lol

The Valley belongs to us if the minority wahabi mindset persons want to leave for the land of the pure they can go nobody is stopping them but the valley has deep roots with Sufism and you will see pandits and the Sufis praying in the same shrines which is considered kafir like across the border by many.

 

[livingdead]

What poll done by our media in the valley suggest this? let me ask you a question there is parts of Bradford that feel they want to be bradistan does that mean the UK govt will give to them? hell no lol

The Valley belongs to us if the minority wahabi mindset persons want to leave for the land of the pure they can go nobody is stopping them but the valley has deep roots with Sufism and you will see pandits and the Sufis praying in the same shrines which is considered kafir like across the border by many.

the valey is a tolerant place and our own action makes it intolerant and lets extremist ideology creep into population.
Even then, the religious extremist is comparatively low in kashmir (compared to hyderabad, kerala or UP).
dont confuse separatists with jihadis.

 

[Yeti]

the valey is a tolerant place and our own action makes it intolerant and lets extremist ideology creep into population.
Even then, the religious extremist is comparatively low in kashmir (compared to hyderabad, kerala or UP).

We have made mistakes, I will be the first to say that certain individuals in the Indian army have done acts of war crimes but so have the jihadi dogs from across the border. There have been several mass killings of Pandits where whole families were rounded up and shot to death just for being a Hindu.

Hindu temples in the valley were left in ruins and our culture and people removed from their birthplace but nobody wants to talk about that

Kashmiris need jobs and lots of them! I want the big IT firms to setup shop in Kashmir and give locals jobs because a person working would not have time to come out on the streets and pick up a stone he would rather be a productive member of society.

 

[livingdead]

We have made mistakes, I will be the first to say that certain individuals in the Indian army have done acts of war crimes but so have the jihadi dogs from across the border. There have been several mass killings of Pandits where whole families were rounded up and shot to death just for being a Hindu.

Hindu temples in the valley were left in ruins and our culture and people removed from their birthplace but nobody wants to talk about that

Kashmiris need jobs and lots of them! I want the big IT firms to setup shop in Kashmir and give locals jobs because a person working would have time to come out on the streets and pick up a stone he would rather be a productive member of society.

you say nobody talks about pundit but actually everybody does. Pandits have somehow been settled, and face no danger now.
there has been no mass killing of pundits, only mass eviction by threats. Those were bad days. Compare it to gujrat or mujaffarnagar, the violence was much less. And it was not done by militants not by rioting public.
Unfortunately people are doing politics in name of pundits and using them as bargaining chip.

 

[Yeti]

you say nobody talks about pundit but actually everybody does. Pandits have somehow been settled, and face no danger now.
there has been no mass killing of pundits, only mass eviction by threats. Those were bad days. Compare it to gujrat or mujaffarnagar, the violence was much less. And it was not done by militants not by rioting public.
Unfortunately people are doing politics in name of pundits and using them as bargaining chip.

My friend what are u talking about? the Pandits have been massacred lol go see amnesty international or human rights watch they have reported it wtf u on

and it's Pandits not pundits u tit lol get their name right and show some respect what kinda hinduguy are u?

you even heard of the 1998 Wandhama massacre? I am old enough to remember it