Gen. Raheel not received any job offer from Saudi Arabia: Sartaj Aziz

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Well I was so sure that Gen. Raheel would not get command of any Saudi alliance that I placed a wager that I would leave PDF if I was wrong. This was not based on having any secret contacts, knowing Gen. Sharif, or indeed having some insider in the Saudi defence ministry.


It was just based on my analysis of KSA, Pakstan, GCC and the history of that relationship. That history points to Arabs getting Pakistani help when needed but secretly or informally. The final product always has 'Arab' printed on it and any Pakistani contribution is masked. In the public space GCC people regard Pakistan with concieted arrogance and look down as 'Miskeen' - even when their fighter jets are being flown by Pak pilots, or their banks were set up by Pak CEOs.

As I said before GCC treats Pakistan like a brothel. It just surreptitiously buy's out services instead of building up institutional compact with the Pakistani state. For example GCC could set up a Organization of Trans Arabian Sea Nations - OTAN. This could be structured along NATO lines where members around and across the Arabian Sea join in a military alliance.

OTAN

Pakistan
KSA
GCC
Oman
Kuwait

Could all join and bring forth what they have to offer. Pakistan has plenty of military age youth and could easily another new 300,000 army command with say 100 4th gen fighters and air support based in Arabian peninsula. Since GCC members have the money they could contribute to the financing of OTAN. Command could be circular, every new commander takes over every year from each member country.

OTAN would employ the principle of mutual defence. Attack on one member would be considerd attack against all. In this situation who would dare attack OTAN members. Certainly not Iran or any local powers. OTAN forces could be deployed in Yeman as defensive-offensive operation to secure OTAN member KSA's flank. In this scenario I would have no issues with Pak elemts of a OTAN force fighting Iranian sponsored groups or even Iranian soldiers. This would be a strategic force with strategic interests and that would mean fighting for other members even if you don't have beef with that country on the premise that if we get attacked then others would come to your aid and not look on.

And this is how it pans out in Afghanistan

However this is not what KSA/GCC wants. Instead it wants to create a master/dog relationship. Dog does this. Then throw a bone. Next day dog do this then throw a bone. This keeps the dog beholden to the master. I give example of England in Middle Ages. The King would rule in his full regalia and might. Poor people would walk and stand outside the palace in the vain hope of getting audience. If they were lucky they got a chance to meet the King. They would say 'I beg your majesty but I am poor and my children are hungry please help me' and the king might turn to his court staff and hand him some money. The poor guy would walk out praising the king like a god and thanking him profusively and saying if ever his majesty wants anything he will be their to serve him. This was arbitrary. It made the poor guy a begger and made the king like a god. Every time he helped somebody all the praise his ego got massaged. It was a power trip for the rulers but made beggers out of the common folk.

Today everything has been institionalized. You get sick you go to the NHS hospital and everybody is treated equally. You want justice you go to police or the courts and everrybody legally has free acces to the law. Your poor you go to the welfare agency and they will give you money as matter of law and not a favour. The queen instead today is just a figurehad.

KSA/GCC similarly want to keep one to relationship where they buy out services from Pakistan without developing institutional structures. Now compare the West. NATO acts as a joint defence organization. EU acts like common market that helps out any country in trouble or those that are poor. We all know how many $100s of billions were given to Greece as bailout by EU.

@Khafee @Saif al-Arab

Build your economy, build your society, build your State. Beggars bowl gets smashed forever.

Act of out Strength...not out of articificial poverty.

Reclaim your Ancient Civilisational Heritage and Transform your State into modernity...brining the Ancient and the Modern together....

Until then it is going to be a Vessel without Soul....vulnerable to influnce and manipulation from outside...

Ever wondered...why more than 70k of your kind and childeren died..murdered by the agents of Sick Hate?

The biggest tragedy I find...is when a Great Civlisational State...chooses to become Nothing...but a beggar...

You have to forgive my harsh words...a Friend who knows you, Makes you!

 

[Asim Mirza]

One should forget what the media say, which is pure speculation for the most part, and wait official word from Saudi Arabia. Being declared "chief" doesn't indicate anything, it's not even an official title.

Media didnt break any News Its Stupid Govt Officials giving Bullshit around here and there on Media talk Shows

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Build your economy, build your society, build your State. Beggars bowl gets smashed forever.

I entirely agree. I was only rationalizing why I did not think Gen. Raheel Sharif would be appointed by KSA. And you are entirely right. All said and done Pak has to look after it's interests and build itself up.

Chief

I was entirely circumspect about this news but only began to think maybe I am wrong when Guardian in UK carried a piece. I guess their sources were Pak media and the 'say anything' defence minister of Pakistan. I noticed no KSA source had said anything. Not even mere mention of the notion.

 

[Mutakalim]

Will be glad to hear if its not true. His prediction tuns out to bs correct in that case.

But we are still unclear and I believe some secret talk is going on for sure

I think news of Generals appointment is intentionally crafted and leaked to assess the public response. Now he is just backtracking. This trend should not be encouraged by the government.

 

[Farah Sohail]

@Kaptaan

Will be glad to hear if its not true. His prediction tuns out to be correct in that case.

But we are still unclear and I believe some secret talk is going on for sure

As per Gen Amjad shoaib..who is in contact with Gen Raheel .sharif...tht as of yet...no formal proposal/offer has come from KSA... Such offer will most probably come in end of March or start of April... gen Raheel Sharif has had some informal discussion with Saudis on his umrah trip, and told his condition...and Saudis will come in March with a formal proposal...they will tell, the structure, how will it work...Gen Amjad Shoaib says..as per his understanding...this force will have a defense council..which will include defense ministers of all member countries and they will decide...where this coalition force has to go.. No decision will be taken by saudis themselves alone..... It will be a mutual decision of all defense ministers.. And this alliance will also have contact with muslim countries, who will not be part of this alliance... Plus.. A framework will be decided, how will this alliance contact with other inetrnational forums, like UN, or OIC.. Gen Amjad Shoaib said, as per his understanding..this alliance will be an OIC like organistaion... Its structure, SOPs for choosing future chiefs also, (tht is if Gen Raheel Sharif accepts, he ofcourse will have a fixed tenure) has to be decided....so Amjad Shoaib said... All this will be formalised and documented till March and then will be forwarded to Gov of Pak, which if accepts it..then will forward it to Gen Raheel Sharif.. And then process of NOC and clearance will start.... So yes, as of now..the status is tht no formal invitation / written offer has come yet... It will come in end March or start of April

@Kaptaan

 

[newb3e]

If this alliance doesnt include Iran all hell will break loose.We should stay away from any alliance thats led by choudry kings of arabia!

 

[Djinn]

There should be a GCC military alliance that does NOT include Pakistan. I have a name for it: mostuseless.com

Aren't we giving way too much credit to Pakistan? Besides it's not just the military strength which creates an impact, it's the political and diplomatic maneuvering which augments the power projection of a state and an alliance alike..........And sadly non of the GCC states including Pakistan are in a position to pull off anything by employing an apt mix of the three forementioned strengths.

 

[Dastaan]

This whole episode exposed a lot of things.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Aren't we giving way too much credit to Pakistan? Besides it's not just the military strength which creates an impact, it's the political and diplomatic maneuvering which augments the power projection of a state and an alliance alike..........And sadly non of the GCC states including Pakistan are in a position to pull off anything by employing an apt mix of the three forementioned strengths.

NOT AT ALL. NOT AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...... In fact I will be bold as to say that the vast majority of Pakistanis are OVERLY critical of Pakistan and don't give it even 1% of the credit it deserves. Us Pakistanis are very OVERLY analytical of ourselves. We ALWAYS focus on the bad and never the good. We are addicted to badmouthing our nation at every given opportunity and NEVER promote it.

But the truth is that Pakistan is a VERY powerful and advanced nation. WE ARE THE MOST POWERFUL Muslim nation on earth by a long shot. There is no comparison there whatsoever. Pakistan's power is rising even compared to other non-Muslim nations. Whenever our enemies ridicule us, we prove the EXACT opposite. Pakistan no longer needs help, assistance and support from the other Muslim or Middle Eastern nations. We have far surpassed them in power, advanced sciences, technologies, indigenous advanced weapons production capabilites and that gap is only widening. Gone are the days when we needed Saudi or any other GCC nations help or support. ONLY China and Turkey matter to Pakistan. EVERY OTHER nation on Earth is meaningless and irrelevant to Pakistan.

Truth is that if Pakistan had a sincere, nationalist and honest leadership, we COULD potentially become a superpower. Military & Economic.

Pakistan Federation Zindabaad!


PS: Pakistan has greatly OUTGROWN the Islamic/Muslim world. We need to start to assert ourselves in the world more and be more confident in our achievements. We need MORE confidence in our race, culture, heritage and our unique way of life. I'm sick, tired and thoroughly fed up of Pakistani humbleness, kindness and passivity. We ARE NOW on a road whereby we can potentially become a superpower and we need to go full steam ahead in that pursuit. Not including China and Turkey, the rest of the world can go f**k themselves. They are meaningless to us. They couldn't help or save the Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians & Libyans and they certainly can't ever do anything that is useful or beneficial to Pakistan. So F**K em.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

If this alliance doesnt include Iran all hell will break loose.We should stay away from any alliance thats led by choudry kings of arabia!

Iranians will be asked, if they continue to babble about idiotic stuff like wahabi this wahabi that, they will be left because this alliance is not for cry babies...

Hell will be loose on Tehran not anywhere else.

We cannot stay away from 39 Muslim countries...Thats all I know...

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I entirely agree. I was only rationalizing why I did not think Gen. Raheel Sharif would be appointed by KSA. And you are entirely right. All said and done Pak has to look after it's interests and build itself up.

I was entirely circumspect about this news but only began to think maybe I am wrong when Guardian in UK carried a piece. I guess their sources were Pak media and the 'say anything' defence minister of Pakistan. I noticed no KSA source had said anything. Not even mere mention of the notion.

There's no kudos in being the leader of a military force that encompasses Saudi Arabia and the GCC nations. Even their best elite commandos would get thrashed by the barbers and tea sellers from Sialkot or my father's village in rural Punjab.........

 

[Indus Pakistan]

if they continue to babble about idiotic stuff like wahabi this wahabi that, they will be left because this alliance is not for cry babies

Without Iran what is the alliance for? Fighting for Israel or USA?

And don't forget Putin's Russia is with Iran, make no mistake about that. Why not see in Syria who is with who.

There's no kudos in being the leader of a military force that encompasses Saudi Arabia and the GCC nations. Even their best elite commandos would get thrashed by the barbers and tea sellers from my father's village in rural Punjab.....

This is attitude Pakistani's need. Pakistan first and eff the rest !


And a healthy dose of disgust for the Ganga Swamp

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Without Iran what is the alliance for? Fighting for Israel or USA?

And don't forget Putin's Russia is with Iran, make no mistake about that. Why not see in Syria who is with who.

This is attitude Pakistani's need. Pakistan first and eff the rest !

Putin's Russia is with Pakistan also regarding Afghanistan and etc...Just because Russians are with Iranians, Tehran doesn't get a right to destabilize Middle East...If Iran has Russia then we have China

Alliance is good step, If Iranians don't come and join, everyone will move on....Things are far more important here than Persian ego...

 

[H!TchHiker]

If this alliance doesnt include Iran all hell will break loose.We should stay away from any alliance thats led by choudry kings of arabia!

IRAN or No IRAN we should go if it is beneficial for paksitan..What matter is pakistan interest should prevail

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

IRAN or No IRAN we should go if it is beneficial for paksitan..What matter is pakistan interest should prevail

It's NOT beneficial to Pakistan in ANY WAY. We have FAR outgrown the Muslim/Islamic world and become too powerful. We no longer need them or their support. Thinking Saudi/ GCC money/support can somehow help or save Pakistan is so 2000s, completely false and retarded. Us Pakistanis only need ourselves and our focus to solve ALL our problems. History has shown this to be true.

The only thing that can REALLY help Pakistan is extreme patriotism/nationalism.