Gen. Kiyani issues a warning to Zardari to clean up his mess!
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I think in every country the Army is capable of orchestrating a coup. So its not a question of the government being under the Army. These articles explain how the Army is being forced to intervene, reluctantly. Anyway, not been confirmed by multiple sources yet.
Awesome
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When I say the Army is forced into taking action I kid you not...
I quote the Sharif's "Qurbani do gay? Islamabad Jao gay? Laro gay, maro gay, aur phir Pakistani Paindabad"... And 12th March's Long March is expected to be the biggest yet!
I quote the Sharif's "Qurbani do gay? Islamabad Jao gay? Laro gay, maro gay, aur phir Pakistani Paindabad"... And 12th March's Long March is expected to be the biggest yet!
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AgNoStiC MuSliM
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Shaheen Sehbai discussed this possibility a few days ago as well:
The remarkable power of winks and messages
Saturday, March 07, 2009
By Shaheen Sehbai
LONDON/BRUSSELS: The vibes reaching the Pakistani diplomatic and immigrant community in these two important capitals show that the Pakistan Army has finally intervened in the on-going wrangling between the high pedestal power players and both the top elected offices have been quietly conveyed the subtle message that the situation in Punjab should be rolled back, as soon as possible.
In Islamabad the widely circulated, below the media radar, breaking news is that the doors of the Punjab Assembly, which had been shut on the PML-N by an arrogant power-possessed PPP high command, were opened after this subtle intervention of the khakis, at the right and proper level and in the right and proper way, without setting a cat among the political pigeons.
The tone and tenor of the political players with a stake in the system, who are in close contact with the presidency and the prime minister’s office, has also suddenly changed in the last few days, especially since General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani returned from his US trip and quickly huddled into critical meetings with the president and the prime minister.
The body language of major players, especially when they come to attend the session of parliament, speaks more than their recorded words on the cameras and the demeanour of the so-called anti-Zardari camp within the parliament, especially within the PPP led by a compliant and defiant PM Yusuf Raza Gilani, has shown a remarkably jubilant shift, noticed by keen observers with a sense of surprise.
For instance on the day of the attack on the Sri Lankan team in Lahore, while the nation mourned the death of cricket in the country, the prime minister was seen in parliament in a mood as if a divine elixir of perpetual life had been supplied to him by someone. Instead of mourning the dead he was bristling with excitement in the House of Parliament, even while condoling and condemning the brutal terrorist attack on visiting cricketers.
Not only PM Gilani’s demeanour has changed, so have changed the utterances and statements of all those political players who are always considered as the carriers of camouflaged messages and who are constantly watched, as they are the weather cocks who always point in the direction of the winds.
Maulana Fazlur Rehman is one and he has not only been demanding an end to the Governor’s rule in Punjab but also talking to the warring sides to make them see some sense. He is also a current ally of the government but a perpetual ally of the establishment.
The MQM is another indicator of the direction in which people who matter would like things to move. Just recently the MQM changed its stance from just condemning those who had vandalised the portraits of Benazir Bhutto in Rawalpindi (instead of condemning the dismissal of an elected government in Punjab), to demanding that governor’s rule should immediately be lifted in the largest province.
Balochistan’s Chief Minister Sardar Raisani has been mediating from day one. He is also an ally of the president. How CMs of Balochistan operate is a known factor. Raisani Friday called for reversing the Supreme Court verdict of disqualifying the Sharif brothers, saying, he was hopeful for a “positive breakthrough” regarding his reconciliation efforts between the PPP and PML-N.
Asfandyar Wali is a close adviser too and his position has been clearly against Mr Zardari. All these allies have been pushing the president to rewind the tape as his premature and ill-timed move against the Sharif brothers had misfired badly.
Of course the Sharifs and the other opposition parties have been having a field day and just in days an APC with Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Aitzaz Ahsan, Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan and others has already taken a joint position. The tone and mood of the Sharif brothers has gone from tough to bloody, as they have seen swelling crowds in their protest rallies and almost smelling a kill.
But all this was going on and had little chance of producing a reversal of policies until the ultimate message from the men who matter came. I have also been told that my recent writings have been a source of great interest in the vicinity of Rawalpindi and copies of my old articles were also in great demand. One fly on the wall even said that the reaction to these critical but objective pieces was “not at all negative” rather people who read them agreed with most of the contents.
Of course this subject of intervention is a very sensitive one for everyone in power, political, apolitical or military and no one will ever admit it, at least in the present situation when the army is facing internal and external threats which it finds very hard to meet, unless a full-fledged national consensus was behind it.
So when I asked my colleague in Islamabad, Ansar Abbasi, to get an official reaction from the Army, he was told by the ISPR spokesman Major General Athar Abbas that the Army should not be dragged into the Punjab situation. “We would request that army should not be dragged in such matters. What the Army had to say about the Corps Commanders meeting as well as that of Army Chief’s meeting with the president and the prime minister has been said in the respective official press releases issued.”
When again asked if the Army Chief discussed the Punjab situation with the president and the PM and that if he had asked them to undo what was done to Punjab, Major General Athar Abbas said: “Not to my knowledge”.
Whatever that answer means, a denial, an admission, a no comment or a confirmation, is for the readers to guess. But what is certain is that if any such message is ever given by the Army Chief to the president or the prime minister, it cannot be discussed with junior officials, unless of course if a General Abdul Waheed Kakar type of action of the 90s is planned.
One interesting point noted by some observers, who pointed it out to me, was that the conference room where the Corps Commanders of the Pakistan Army meet, does not display the picture of the supreme commander of the armed forces, in the current case President Asif Ali Zardari. Currently only the picture of Quaid-i-Azam is visible on the wall.
Major General Athar Abbas strongly asserts that the conference room contains only the portrait of QA and not that of the supreme commander. If this was the situation during the days of General Ziaul Haq or the early years of General Pervez Musharraf is something which needs to be checked with record keepers.
Yet whether the message has been sent or not, the juggernaut against the Punjab action by President Zardari has gained super speed and is now unstoppable. Political jokers who played a small but divisive role should start packing up their bags and try to find other jobs as their game may soon be over.
The remarkable power of winks and messages
The remarkable power of winks and messages
Saturday, March 07, 2009
By Shaheen Sehbai
LONDON/BRUSSELS: The vibes reaching the Pakistani diplomatic and immigrant community in these two important capitals show that the Pakistan Army has finally intervened in the on-going wrangling between the high pedestal power players and both the top elected offices have been quietly conveyed the subtle message that the situation in Punjab should be rolled back, as soon as possible.
In Islamabad the widely circulated, below the media radar, breaking news is that the doors of the Punjab Assembly, which had been shut on the PML-N by an arrogant power-possessed PPP high command, were opened after this subtle intervention of the khakis, at the right and proper level and in the right and proper way, without setting a cat among the political pigeons.
The tone and tenor of the political players with a stake in the system, who are in close contact with the presidency and the prime minister’s office, has also suddenly changed in the last few days, especially since General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani returned from his US trip and quickly huddled into critical meetings with the president and the prime minister.
The body language of major players, especially when they come to attend the session of parliament, speaks more than their recorded words on the cameras and the demeanour of the so-called anti-Zardari camp within the parliament, especially within the PPP led by a compliant and defiant PM Yusuf Raza Gilani, has shown a remarkably jubilant shift, noticed by keen observers with a sense of surprise.
For instance on the day of the attack on the Sri Lankan team in Lahore, while the nation mourned the death of cricket in the country, the prime minister was seen in parliament in a mood as if a divine elixir of perpetual life had been supplied to him by someone. Instead of mourning the dead he was bristling with excitement in the House of Parliament, even while condoling and condemning the brutal terrorist attack on visiting cricketers.
Not only PM Gilani’s demeanour has changed, so have changed the utterances and statements of all those political players who are always considered as the carriers of camouflaged messages and who are constantly watched, as they are the weather cocks who always point in the direction of the winds.
Maulana Fazlur Rehman is one and he has not only been demanding an end to the Governor’s rule in Punjab but also talking to the warring sides to make them see some sense. He is also a current ally of the government but a perpetual ally of the establishment.
The MQM is another indicator of the direction in which people who matter would like things to move. Just recently the MQM changed its stance from just condemning those who had vandalised the portraits of Benazir Bhutto in Rawalpindi (instead of condemning the dismissal of an elected government in Punjab), to demanding that governor’s rule should immediately be lifted in the largest province.
Balochistan’s Chief Minister Sardar Raisani has been mediating from day one. He is also an ally of the president. How CMs of Balochistan operate is a known factor. Raisani Friday called for reversing the Supreme Court verdict of disqualifying the Sharif brothers, saying, he was hopeful for a “positive breakthrough” regarding his reconciliation efforts between the PPP and PML-N.
Asfandyar Wali is a close adviser too and his position has been clearly against Mr Zardari. All these allies have been pushing the president to rewind the tape as his premature and ill-timed move against the Sharif brothers had misfired badly.
Of course the Sharifs and the other opposition parties have been having a field day and just in days an APC with Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Aitzaz Ahsan, Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan and others has already taken a joint position. The tone and mood of the Sharif brothers has gone from tough to bloody, as they have seen swelling crowds in their protest rallies and almost smelling a kill.
But all this was going on and had little chance of producing a reversal of policies until the ultimate message from the men who matter came. I have also been told that my recent writings have been a source of great interest in the vicinity of Rawalpindi and copies of my old articles were also in great demand. One fly on the wall even said that the reaction to these critical but objective pieces was “not at all negative” rather people who read them agreed with most of the contents.
Of course this subject of intervention is a very sensitive one for everyone in power, political, apolitical or military and no one will ever admit it, at least in the present situation when the army is facing internal and external threats which it finds very hard to meet, unless a full-fledged national consensus was behind it.
So when I asked my colleague in Islamabad, Ansar Abbasi, to get an official reaction from the Army, he was told by the ISPR spokesman Major General Athar Abbas that the Army should not be dragged into the Punjab situation. “We would request that army should not be dragged in such matters. What the Army had to say about the Corps Commanders meeting as well as that of Army Chief’s meeting with the president and the prime minister has been said in the respective official press releases issued.”
When again asked if the Army Chief discussed the Punjab situation with the president and the PM and that if he had asked them to undo what was done to Punjab, Major General Athar Abbas said: “Not to my knowledge”.
Whatever that answer means, a denial, an admission, a no comment or a confirmation, is for the readers to guess. But what is certain is that if any such message is ever given by the Army Chief to the president or the prime minister, it cannot be discussed with junior officials, unless of course if a General Abdul Waheed Kakar type of action of the 90s is planned.
One interesting point noted by some observers, who pointed it out to me, was that the conference room where the Corps Commanders of the Pakistan Army meet, does not display the picture of the supreme commander of the armed forces, in the current case President Asif Ali Zardari. Currently only the picture of Quaid-i-Azam is visible on the wall.
Major General Athar Abbas strongly asserts that the conference room contains only the portrait of QA and not that of the supreme commander. If this was the situation during the days of General Ziaul Haq or the early years of General Pervez Musharraf is something which needs to be checked with record keepers.
Yet whether the message has been sent or not, the juggernaut against the Punjab action by President Zardari has gained super speed and is now unstoppable. Political jokers who played a small but divisive role should start packing up their bags and try to find other jobs as their game may soon be over.
The remarkable power of winks and messages
Communist
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It is not important who will come to power, rather the important question is who will clean up the mess and bring order. It must be kept in mind that more than Israel, Pakistan's eastern neighbor is the actual threat to Pakistan's geographic and sovereign existence. Israel will cause serious damage to Pakistan's nuclear assets and military stations if Israel gets any opportunity, but Pakistan's eastern neighbor will swallow up the entire Pakistan to fulfill the imperialist vision of Akhanda Bharat, if the that enemy neighbor gets any opportunity. India follows the Kautilyan principles in its foreign policies and diplomatic relations with other countries. Do not forget to notice the Ashoka Chakra and the Ashoka Sthambha as the two important government symbols. Please do not forget the history. Why those two symbols are still relevant is a serious matter we need to understand. There were a number of Hindu kingdoms, the Guptas, the Cholas, the Senas, the Palas, the Kamrupas and many more. But why did Mauryan symbols get the relevancy in projecting the Indian statehood? It is because of the Kautilyan or Chankyan imperialist ideology that India wants to adopt in its foreign policies. And according to the Kautilyan principles of foreign relations a state should wage never-ending war against the enemy and the strong must capture the weak anytime anyhow. But when to attack? According to Kautilyan guidelines...
In Kautilya's view of the world, expansion by a prosperous kingdom was inevitable, natural, and good, and as a consequence, moral considerations did not enter into his deliberations, only what was for the good of the kingdom. If a king can win, then he should go to war. As Kangle says, the Arthasastra "preaches an ideal of conquest." But who should be attacked? This is not an ethical question. The decision takes only careful calculation and observes the principle that a king should attack weakness. Certain states are vulnerable. If a state is weakened from a poor economy, or if a state has experienced some kind of calamity ranging from fires to flood or famine, then a king "should make war and march." As Rajendra Prasad says, Kautilya believed that "whenever an enemy king is in trouble, and his subjects are disunited, he should be immediately attacked after one proclamation of war."
Every adjacent kingdom should be looked upon as an enemy and classified. If a kingdom is strong, Kautilya called it a "foe"; if a kingdom is suffering calamity, then it is "vulnerable"; if a kingdom has weak or no popular support, then "it is fit to be exterminated." Even if one cannot attack a strong neighbor or "foe," one can harass it silently and weaken it over time. What Kautilya called an enemy "fit to be exterminated" was an enemy with little or no popular support, an enemy whose subjects quite likely would desert to Kautilya's attacking army. And Kautilya argued, or perhaps assumed, that imperial expansion was the correct goal: "After conquering the enemy's territory, the conqueror should seek to seize the middle king, after succeeding over him, the neutral king. This is the first method of conquering the world. . . . And after conquering the world he should enjoy it divided into varnas . . . in accordance with his own duty."
To know more about Kautilya, go to the site...
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So Pakistan must become stabilized by means of anything, be it militarily or democratically.
In Kautilya's view of the world, expansion by a prosperous kingdom was inevitable, natural, and good, and as a consequence, moral considerations did not enter into his deliberations, only what was for the good of the kingdom. If a king can win, then he should go to war. As Kangle says, the Arthasastra "preaches an ideal of conquest." But who should be attacked? This is not an ethical question. The decision takes only careful calculation and observes the principle that a king should attack weakness. Certain states are vulnerable. If a state is weakened from a poor economy, or if a state has experienced some kind of calamity ranging from fires to flood or famine, then a king "should make war and march." As Rajendra Prasad says, Kautilya believed that "whenever an enemy king is in trouble, and his subjects are disunited, he should be immediately attacked after one proclamation of war."
Every adjacent kingdom should be looked upon as an enemy and classified. If a kingdom is strong, Kautilya called it a "foe"; if a kingdom is suffering calamity, then it is "vulnerable"; if a kingdom has weak or no popular support, then "it is fit to be exterminated." Even if one cannot attack a strong neighbor or "foe," one can harass it silently and weaken it over time. What Kautilya called an enemy "fit to be exterminated" was an enemy with little or no popular support, an enemy whose subjects quite likely would desert to Kautilya's attacking army. And Kautilya argued, or perhaps assumed, that imperial expansion was the correct goal: "After conquering the enemy's territory, the conqueror should seek to seize the middle king, after succeeding over him, the neutral king. This is the first method of conquering the world. . . . And after conquering the world he should enjoy it divided into varnas . . . in accordance with his own duty."
To know more about Kautilya, go to the site...
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
So Pakistan must become stabilized by means of anything, be it militarily or democratically.
nitesh
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Asim boss, but it clearly shows in how much shaky grounds the institutions are that armed forces have to do this job leaving the primary job
Awesome
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can't disagree.
AgNoStiC MuSliM
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I would argue this round of instability has a strong US hand in it as well.
For all the talk about 'not supporting personalities', that is exactly what the US did - it supported a 'personality' in BB, and then in Zardari.
We find ourselves in this situation because the US pushed through and supported corrupt individuals like BB and Zardari to replace Musharraf. Musharraf had to pass a special individual specific law to 'wash away' the crimes of Zardari and BB, and then refuse to allow back the independent judiciary that would have overthrown the NRO as illegal.
So now we find that the very same corrupt individual Zardari cannot allow an impartial and fair judiciary because such a judiciary might undermine the amnesty he has been given, and to preserve that amnesty he is resorting to more and more draconian acts.
Imagine if we only had Gillani or Amin Fahim in charge of the PPP - neither would have had any reason to not restore the judiciary, nor would they have had any reason to overthrow the Sharif brothers in Punjab.
We are now going to reap the fruits of the seeds the US planted.
AgNoStiC MuSliM
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Zardari would not be in power right now had the US not pressured Musharraf to give BB and him an amnesty and share power.
nitesh
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AM boss we both are on same page but the way we are saying is different. The people in power should take right decision which is better for the country not with external influence.
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OK, I understand your point now.
You are correct, blame is to be shared by the leadership of the PPP as well, since they too were following a personality cult in BB. If you remember though, Zardari had stated he would not run for elected office or President. I think a lot of the old PPP leadership has been hoodwinked.
The political parties need to start acting like institutions as well.
Rajkumar
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i don't want to take you out of your fantasy world so keep believe in self established theory of imperialism of India.
prepare your self mentally for fall of Pakistan and India's 'imperialistic advance' and you can't do **** about it.
[message is meant for communist only]
True.... Only after all political parties (PPP, PML-N, PML-Q) turn into institutions rather than absolute monarchistic regimes where power passes from father to daughter, wife to husband, father to son (...etc), only then can the political climate stabilize
Energon
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Musharraf's government was already crumbling on account of internal strife, (primarily the CJ issue) the US had nothing to do with that. Supporting BB (the only other serious contender in the Pakistani democratic process) in light of the impending implosion of the Musharraf government was the most responsible thing to do. I don't think either her untimely assassination or Zardari's accidental ascent to power was expected, and the US certainly didn't play a role in any of that. Favoring BB or rigging elections would have been worthy of censure; but that clearly wasn't the case.
You can't fault the US for supporting a democratic process in Pakistan when that is what most of its people seemed to desire at the time; and the fact that the current dictator general had managed to shoot himself in the foot. The problem isn't American support, but rather a qualitatively poor cohort of leaders and a disheveled political establishment that hasn't been able to sustain itself for a very, very long time.
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