GCF-BEL-upgrading-L70-antiaircraft-guns

[SR-91]

BHOPAL (PTI): The 40mm L/70 anti-aircraft guns used by Indian defence forces are being upgraded and modernised at Madhya Pradesh's Jabalpur-based Gun Carriage Factory (GCF), with the help of Bharat Electronics Limited.

"We have already handed over two 40 mm L/70 guns to BEL for electronic upgradation after bringing mechanical improvement in it," GCF general manager N K Sinha told PTI over phone.

There is a plan to upgrade 200-odd L/70 guns, Sinha said adding that their hydraulic system is being changed to electric drive.

The gun's firing ability is being sharpened and its handling is being made more convenient, GCF officials said.

The guns were imported from Sweden's Bofors company in the 60s. After the transfer of technology (ToT) from the Swedish company, its manufacturing was taken up successfully by GCF, they said.

In the past also, the gun had been upgraded and its firing capacity enhanced to 240-300 rounds per minute, officials said.

The Indian Army, which has a good number of L/70 guns in its inventory, has been seeking the fully upgraded weapon with effective night vision equipment and advanced radar system since 1990s, as per reports.





GCF, BEL upgrading L/70 anti-aircraft guns | Brahmand News

 

[IndianArmy]

Its High Time we give this Machine a Much Needed Retirement. It has lost its charm. Even though anti Aircraft Guns are Ideas of the past, with a good fire control,smart round and passive target alerting systems,these machines can prove costly for low flying aircraft/fixed wing/rotary. But if the Enemy is strong in ECM, then these Machines are Live Decoys...

 

[Omega007]

Its High Time we give this Machine a Much Needed Retirement. It has lost its charm. Even though anti Aircraft Guns are Ideas of the past, with a good fire control,smart round and passive target alerting systems,these machines can prove costly for low flying aircraft/fixed wing/rotary. But if the Enemy is strong in ECM, then these Machines are Live Decoys...

It's very nice to see you after a long time sir.
And yes,although the L 70s have become old and quite unsuitable for engaging modern fighters,still their massive range and the severe damage they can deal to the enemy's hardened field fortifications and light armored vehicles,still keeps them a viable infantry support weapons.And that's why I think that instead of just replacing them,it's actually better to upgrade them for this job.

 

[Mike_Brando]

It's very nice to see you after a long time sir.
And yes,although the L 70s have become old and quite unsuitable for engaging modern fighters,still their massive range and the severe damage they can deal to the enemy's hardened field fortifications and light armored vehicles,still keeps them a viable infantry support weapons.And that's why I think that instead of just replacing them,it's actually better to upgrade them for this job.

That's what i was going to point out but it seems that you have already beaten me on this matter.According to Brig.(retd) Ray sir of the ***,these L-70 anti-aircraft guns are used in the forward posts to target the hardened pakistani fortification and bunkers and because of their "large" calibre can inflict a crushing blow to any type of earthen or hardened fortification or light skinned vehicles.Basically these guns are just used as an offensive weapons on the western border region plus it's also available in large quantitities(we have around 5,000 L-60/70 ones in our arsenal)

 

[Echo_419]

That's what i was going to point out but it seems that you have already beaten me on this matter.According to Brig.(retd) Ray sir of the ***,these L-70 anti-aircraft guns are used in the forward posts to target the hardened pakistani fortification and bunkers and because of their "large" calibre can inflict a crushing blow to any type of earthen or hardened fortification or light skinned vehicles.Basically these guns are just used as an offensive weapons on the western border region plus it's also available in large quantitities(we have around 5,000 L-60/70 ones in our arsenal)

They can also be used for choppers & UAVs

 

[acetophenol]

Its High Time we give this Machine a Much Needed Retirement. It has lost its charm. Even though anti Aircraft Guns are Ideas of the past, with a good fire control,smart round and passive target alerting systems,these machines can prove costly for low flying aircraft/fixed wing/rotary. But if the Enemy is strong in ECM, then these Machines are Live Decoys...

With all respect sir, I don't think AA Guns has lost its relevance, and will loose its relevance anywhere in the near future.

 

[Omega007]

That's what i was going to point out but it seems that you have already beaten me on this matter.According to Brig.(retd) Ray sir of the ***,these L-70 anti-aircraft guns are used in the forward posts to target the hardened pakistani fortification and bunkers and because of their "large" calibre can inflict a crushing blow to any type of earthen or hardened fortification or light skinned vehicles.Basically these guns are just used as an offensive weapons on the western border region plus it's also available in large quantitities(we have around 5,000 L-60/70 ones in our arsenal)

Indeed.Most importantly,there is an well established spare and ammunition supply chain based within our country.The local industry can build,maintain and overhaul these systems on their own and of course,the massive number of them being operational in the Indian Army makes them too valuable to retire just like that.Besides,as you mentioned,the massive splash damage from the heavy 40mm shells can deal devastating blows to the hardened pillboxes of the types frequently found around the LOC.
Ordnance Factory Board
Ordnance Factory Board
Ordnance Factory Board

By the way,the L60 is no longer in use.All of them have been up-gunned to L70 standards along with more powerfull Auxiliary Power Units,all electrical automatic laying,new digital ballistic computers,long range passive thermal sights,laser range finders,fire control radars etc by the OFB.In short,as far as electronic components go,the L70s are comparable to contemporary AAA with the only drawback of not being a belt fed system.Here is link to the upgraded system:
Ordnance Factory Board

That's what i was going to point out but it seems that you have already beaten me on this matter.According to Brig.(retd) Ray sir of the ***,these L-70 anti-aircraft guns are used in the forward posts to target the hardened pakistani fortification and bunkers and because of their "large" calibre can inflict a crushing blow to any type of earthen or hardened fortification or light skinned vehicles.Basically these guns are just used as an offensive weapons on the western border region plus it's also available in large quantitities(we have around 5,000 L-60/70 ones in our arsenal)

Indeed.Most importantly,there is an well established spare and ammunition supply chain based within our country.The local industry can build,maintain and overhaul these systems on their own and of course,the massive number of them being operational in the Indian Army makes them too valuable to retire just like that.Besides,as you mentioned,the massive splash damage from the heavy 40mm shells can deal devastating blows to the hardened pillboxes of the types frequently found around the LOC.
Ordnance Factory Board
Ordnance Factory Board
Ordnance Factory Board

By the way,the L60 is no longer in use.All of them have been up-gunned to L70 standards along with more powerfull Auxiliary Power Units,all electrical automatic laying,new digital ballistic computers,long range passive thermal sights,laser range finders,fire control radars etc by the OFB.In short,as far as electronic components go,the L70s are comparable to contemporary AAA with the only drawback of not being a belt fed system.Here is link to the upgraded system:
Ordnance Factory Board

 

[IndianArmy]

With all respect sir, I don't think AA Guns has lost its relevance, and will loose its relevance anywhere in the near future.

It already has lost its charm to our very own indigenous Anti Aircraft Solutions. Military Forces around the globe are moving away from this , while on the other hand our country is upgrading such systems. I don't deny that it may still have its relevance in the war doctrine we maintain, but going by our ambition to become a fully network centric Armed Forces, this may not fit into it.

The prime motive of a successful air defense is to detect a hostile aircraft and to destroy them. An object when moving in a three-dimensional space, the projectile must not just match the three coordinates, but also hit at the time the target is at that position. This either requires Guidance or Proper usage of conventional methods and SOP's of World War Era.

Its always not the Weapon that changes the course of War, its where the weapon is; that matters.

 

[ptltejas]

radar guided anti aircraft guns are required............

 

[Omega007]

It already has lost its charm to our very own indigenous Anti Aircraft Solutions. Military Forces around the globe are moving away from this , while on the other hand our country is upgrading such systems. I don't deny that it may still have its relevance in the war doctrine we maintain, but going by our ambition to become a fully network centric Armed Forces, this may not fit into it.

The prime motive of a successful air defense is to detect a hostile aircraft and to destroy them.

Its always not the Weapon that changes the course of War, its where the weapon is; that matters.[/QUOTE]

Really man,good to see you back,can't stress it enough. I am in agreement with most of your points except the one that the AAA as a system has lost its charm which in fact,is not correct.Many countries are now developing next generation gun based air defense systems with sophisticated digital ballistic computers,just like they have them on board modern main battle tanks.For example,the Rheinmetall Sky-shield.

An object when moving in a three-dimensional space, the projectile must not just match the three coordinates, but also hit at the time the target is at that position. This either requires Guidance or Proper usage of conventional methods and SOP's of World War Era..

Again,you do not need to follow WWII era SOPs to align your cross-hairs anymore;you have got powerful digital ballistic computers these days which perform all the necessary calculations and provide precise firing solutions.They take note of target range (with help from radars/laser range finders),wind speed and directions,target speed and muzzle velocity of your gun and provide you with the exact spot on a screen where to place your cross-hairs.The upgraded L70s are not different either,just take a look at the OFB link I provided.

 

[In arduis fidelis]

Any pics?

 

[Killswitch]

Any pics of the upgrades?

 

[IndianArmy]

The prime motive of a successful air defense is to detect a hostile aircraft and to destroy them.

Its always not the Weapon that changes the course of War, its where the weapon is; that matters.

Really man,good to see you back,can't stress it enough. I am in agreement with most of your points except the one that the AAA as a system has lost its charm which in fact,is not correct.Many countries are now developing next generation gun based air defense systems with sophisticated digital ballistic computers,just like they have them on board modern main battle tanks.For example,the Rheinmetall Sky-shield.



Again,you do not need to follow WWII era SOPs to align your cross-hairs anymore;you have got powerful digital ballistic computers these days which perform all the necessary calculations and provide precise firing solutions.They take note of target range (with help from radars/laser range finders),wind speed and directions,target speed and muzzle velocity of your gun and provide you with the exact spot on a screen where to place your cross-hairs.The upgraded L70s are not different either,just take a look at the OFB link I provided.

Well Thank you. Its certainly been a While.. I never questioned its relevance. No matter how strong its Computers are, like I said in my first post, its good only against low flying Targets or Cruise Missiles May Be..

 

[Water Car Engineer]

It's basically a digitized L70.

This an example of an upgrade L&T was showing.

The kit is comprised of an electromechanical gun laying system, optical payload with pedestal along with an auto-tracker, fire control computer, rugged and reliable power supply and ergonomic man-machine interface.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

It's basically a digitized L70.

This an example of an upgrade L&T was showing.

Damn, thats hot. I was expecting something of WWII era, despite the upgrades. But thats a beauty.