Gaza-Israel Conflict | October 2023

[sammuel]

OP has repeatedly pointed out that most of the deaths are IDF troops. IDF is disclosing names in batches.

If you have proof, post it. This is pointless exchange otherwise.

Come on , what is there to prove ?

People saw well the nature of the attack. All those settlements where civilian settlements , so it is only common sense that most who died there where civilians.

In kibbutz beeri alone 112 members where murdered and we still dont know from those missing how many are alive and how many held hostage.

And this was more or less the same pattern that repeated itself in more than 20 towns and settlements. All of them had no army present.

In this rave party alone , where 3000 attending , hundreds where gunned down , all civilians.

So I am really not going to publish here lists of names and argue if they are civilian or not.

Same as I don't go around argueing on how many of those Palestinian killed are Hamas and how many civilians. I dont , cause I have no doubt that Palestinians suffer terribly and that many civilians pay the price.

To deny that , is is disrespectful to those who died.

And i ask that the same respect would be shown to those who died on our side.


~

 

[Falcon29]

Hope is not a strategy. If Elon is concerned enough, he can practically do something for Palestinian people.

He can't if Jewish ISIS regime has full backing of US. Pressure on US must come from within the US. Million man protest against genocide of Palestinians.

 

[epebble]

That's exactly wt Hamas n the rest of the Palestinian groups want....to bring isreal foot soldiers into ghaza.....which will bring some semblance of parity to the fighting.....where Hamas would also stand a chance to kill isrealis.
At this point its all isreals loss as the Palestinians have been at the loosing side for the last 70 + years...now they are at a point where they have nothing else to loose down to a child

It is going to be ugly. As ugly as Iraq or Afghanistan but within a tiny area, so the intensity will be revolting.

 

[Goritoes]

Leave the Arabs to their fate, whatever Allah has in store for them, and worry more about Pakistan's failed state and what it will become of it, which Sufi saints have predicted just as bad for the South Asian region.

Besides, some hadiths talk of Muslims in general being useless.

Many times Rasool Allah and his companions in their tenure have warned the Arabs, again and again... from infighting to attachment of the Duniya but they don't listen, unity among Muslims never materialized and one party keeps working against the other because of sectarian issues, power , resources or just survival and those who even dare to stood up were silence (King Shah Faisal), and others.

But you know buddy what's astonishing, back in the 7th Century when Rasool Allah was alive and he used to prophesized about the end times he often mentioned Muslims fighting the Jews as their main enemy, but back in the Day despite issues with Jews of Medina, Muslims never had a big clash with them. In fact Muslims always save Jews from the wrath of Christians/Catholics, but just see how Allah's plan work to fulfill his messengers words that not only Jews return to this holy land, and they make Alliances with Nasara aka Romans aka Christians, to fight against the Muslims. What even more weird is that if you talk to a Jewish scholar you will find out that Judaism and Islam is very similar compared to Christianity but yet the Jews make Alliances with Pagan Christians (Trinitarians) to fight against the Muslims. The events that are unwrapping right in front of us is shocking and how no one would have thought that this day would come, and here we are witnessing. And honestly, I know that Israeli's will win this battle and they will kill Muslims and destroy Al-Aqsa Mosque and even build their temple, just like Prophet said but if his prophecy to come true which I bet my life on it that it will the bad times for Jews will start after they achieve their goal of third temple, if I was a Jew and I study Islam and Rasool Allah's prophecies unfolding right before my eyes, I would be concern cause when something is decreed by Allah SWT, America/West/Aliens/Dajjal no one can stop it. And that day every stone and Tree will shout that there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him... Jews are pushing for that day to come, maybe not in our life time but that day is coming fast unless Jews of Israel take heed and change their course, because they have face the wrath of Allah many times in past, and yet they are transgressing and slaughtering his people by declaring them to be animals.

 

[PakFactor]

Come on , what is there to prove ?

People saw well the nature of the attack. All those settlements where civilian settlements , so it is onlyt common sense that most who died their where civilians.

In kibbutz beeri alone 112 members where murdered and we still dont know from those still missing how many are alive and how many held hostage.

And this was more or less what happened in more than 20 towns and settlements. All of them had no army prresent.

In thise rave party alone , where 3000 attending , hundreds of them where gunned down , all civilians.

So I am really not going to publish here lists of names and argue if they are civilian or not.

Same as I don't go around argueing on how many of those Palestinian killed are Hamas and how many civilians. I dont , cause I have no doubt that Palestinians suffer terribly and that many civilians pay the price.

To deny that , is is disrespectful to those who died.

Andi ask for the same respect would be shown to those who died on our side.


~

Settlement are illegal under international law. Anyone is a legitimate target to remove trespassers on someone's property and land. Would you accept Turk's landing on Israeli soil and establishing Turkish settlements, and in return, be provided love and sweets? I mean, seriously, how the f*ck do you people even think.

 

[mulj]

So let's say 1 billion people stopped buying tech all of a sudden and now are back into the 1800s, whose loss is this really?

Again buy this not that, making excuses, why not invest in producing something useable at home? What if tomorrow HUAEWI entered into a partnership with il? I mean what insanity are we talking about here?

how did you conclude that from my post at first place?
which western/israel tech could not be replaced by alternative?

 

[Dalit]

Leave the Arabs to their fate, whatever Allah has in store for them, and worry more about Pakistan's failed state and what it will become of it, which Sufi saints have predicted just as bad for the South Asian region.

Besides, some hadiths talk of Muslims in general being useless.

This has indeed all been predicted and so much worse. I guess we just take it on our chins.

 

[TNT]

Hamas should know israeli scum cannot be trusted. So they should not release hostages unless ceasefire or solid guarantees for Palestinian statehood. The moment hamas release prisoners, they will launch a full invasion.

 

[Corax]

India and Pakistan are UN recognized states. Both claim Kashmir (disputed status), but Indian claim on Pakistan has no value.

Israel is a UN recognized state but Palestine exist in the form of Gaza and West Bank with UN non-member observer status.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/

Mine is just a suggestion - I do not know this matter will conclude. Time will tell.

Then in that case, maybe there needs to be a two state solution, after all, it is clear that the Arabs and Israelis can live in peace, with peace treaties between Jordan, Egypt and Israel, and reproachment of some gulf Arab states. So the problem is the absence of a two state solution, and Israel holds all the cards for that, it's up to Israel, which clearly does not want a two state solution, but rather a slow and systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from occupied lands. Even Hamas have clearly stated they would accept a two state solution based on borders pre-1967. But clearly, the Israelis don't want to give up their settlements and the occupation of the west bank.

 

[PakFactor]

This has indeed all been predicted and so much worse. I guess we just take it on our chins.

Seeing the caliber of leaders and officers we have in the Islamic World, there is no choice but to take it on the chin.

 

[Dalit]

Seeing the caliber of leaders and officers we have in the Islamic World, there is no choice but to take it on the chin.

Leaders and masses. It is dirty from top to bottom.

 

[mangochutney]

EXCLUSIVE:

Muslim and Arab sports stars hold summit over Israel-Hamas war as players clash​

Around 30 athletes from football, cricket and rugby held a meeting to discuss the Israel-Hamas war, with players wanting to see fitting tributes to all who have lost their lives

Muslim and Arab players across football, cricket and rugby have held a summit meeting over the Israel-Hamas war.

Mirror Sport understands around 30 athletes - including players from the Premier League and the Championship - came together to warn colleagues to stay off social media. Also to share their collective view that they would like to see fitting tributes to all of those who lost their lives over the past five days.



It comes with the FA set to light up the Wembley arch in solidarity with Israel ahead of England’s friendly against Australia on Friday night.

Some Muslim and Arab players made it clear in this week’s meeting, held on Monday, that they would walk off the pitch ahead of upcoming fixtures for their club sides if respect is not shown for Palestinians lost in the conflict.

The FA, Premier League and Football League were accused of “double standards” in 2019 for not holding tributes for 50 people killed in New Zealand's mosque attacks, despite doing so after November 2015’s Paris attacks.

A source said: “Over 950 people died in Gaza and 1000 people died in Israel. Every single civilian life is a tragedy and must be mourned. Why would we have a minute’s silence for the Israelis but not the Palestinian people who are also suffering?


“None of the players are against a minute’s silence for the victims of war. Why would we be? But we have a voice and we won’t be silent on this.” Muslim and Arab stars were also warned in the meeting to limit their social media use - or steer clear of it completely - to avoid a backlash.

Players have already received abuse, some racist, after posting or retweeting material this week. In the Premier League Arsenal full-back Oleksandr Zinchenko restricted his Instagram profile after trolls targeted him for posting that he 'stands with Israel’.

His team-mate Mohamed Elneny was also vilified for appearing to show his support for Palestine by changing his Instagram profile picture to that of their flag. At another club, two players are understood to have had to be separated after a heated argument over the conflict.

Other players have defied trolls to make clear their solidarity is with the Palestinian people and not Hamas. With neither Fifa nor Uefa issuing any statement about what has been happening in the war, the FA has so far yet to comment.

Muslim and Arab sports stars hold summit over Israel-Hamas war as players clash

Around 30 athletes from football, cricket and rugby held a meeting to discuss the Israel-Hamas war, with players wanting to see fitting tributes to all who have lost their lives

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Goritoes]

That will happen after tigers and lions become vegetarians. Hamas holds Gaza in its grip like a demon. Its purpose is to destroy Israel, not save Gaza or Palestine.

I can say the same thing about Israel, Israel's sole purpose is to destroy the identity of Palestinians and wipe out Arabs from Israel, so ? I expect America to play the role of mediator cause it holds influence of both parties. America if its not a slave of Jewish lobby can force Tiny Israel to start talks and use Arab regional powers to bring Hamas to the table, we have see Americans and Taliban sit in Qatar and made a deal with Mediation, Americans used to use same language for Taliban, Terrorists/Savages/never negotiate with Terrorists/Taliban hate our freedom/BLAH BLAH, but in the end they both sit together and now America has ended its longest war, now no American soldier will die in Afghanistan, but problem here is that Jewish Lobby in USA are mostly consist of Radical right wing Zionist who holds US entire Political system hostage, not only that they control most of major media and publications. And they (European Jews) are racists more than KKK and in violence they are on level of ISIS and NAZI's if not more, problem is that USA has become a slave for Israel and have no independent opinion on this matter, every American politician or Journalists were given a script to read from with same old statements like " Israel have the right to self-defense " blah blah, Hamas bad blah blah, Israel Good blah blah.

 

[Corax]

Then getting bombed until all of them are eliminated is the only option? Look,they've tried the guerilla warfare,they've tried the terrorist attacks to get the world's attention(in the '70s and '80s)they've fought against Israelis in 1948,in 1967...in 1982 in Lebanon,they had two Intifidas....they've had Hamas fighting them. It's been more than 50 years. The solution of violence hasn't work. When is the time for diplomacy?

Because my friend,Israel's reprisals on Palestinians is the "standard". It's what we know. We all know that every time something happens,they bomb and kill more people. We all know about the Israeli oppression and mistreatment of Palestinians. That's why I say that Hamas gave them the best excuse again.


Look I'll tag these guys here too @HGV @Mehdipersian @RescueRanger @Sineva and try to explain some things again,
although I really don't have to. I can just say "who cares what they think about me?" and just leave,but I've been trying to make you guys understand.

Once upon a time,this was my room when I was studying.

The flag didn't say up much,but anyway,it was given to me by my Palestinian teacher who taught me Arabic,when I asked him for one.

View attachment 960634


These are some books that I had bought back then,in the 2000s,when I was interested in Arabic history,language,music and documentaries.

View attachment 960635

From left to right: "The Arabs in recent and modern era,History of the Arab peoples,The Crusades from the point of view of the Arabs,Jihad the Holy War(by Gilles Kepel),Israel-Palestine One Land,Two Nations 1948-2002,Israel-Palestine,Iran's Awakening(by Sherin Ebadi). I have Greek documentaries in Palestine in the early 2000s from when Arafat was still alive. I have documentary "Death in Gaza" on original DVD. I've had friends from Palestine...well mostly girls,one in USA and one in the West Bank. My Palestinian teacher comes from the West Bank as well.

When I was young,I was so disgusted by all the oppression and abuse of the Israelis. I thought,man these people are so arrogant,so cold-hearted. But little by little,growing up and reading more,I started seeing things a bit from the other side too. They too have suffered a lot. The Palestinians too have responded with hatred as well. They too helped the Jews dislike them even more. It was a circle.

I remember,in a greek documentary about the Six Day War,near the end,the reporter asked a Greek Jew who had fought in Jerusalem back then,if he would give up Jerusalem for peace. He said "Yes,I would do that. As long as it is a gentlemen's agreement".

The end of the documentary in Palestine had scenes of the aftermath of attacks with victims on both sides and their relatives and friends crying,while this song was playing:

As the credits were rolling,one scene stayed in my mind all these years. A Jewish paramedic on the scene,holding the head of a wounded (or dead) baby. Just a tiny baby,in blood. He was either praying or desperately asking the baby to stay in life.

My point to you guys is,they are people too. You are Muslims and many of you see this as some kind of an extreme obligation to support Palestinians,supposedly even more than others. But sometimes it blinds you to see that the other side,is just human too.


Israelis are people too. Sure,many are jerks. But many are brilliant and good people who want peace. Palestinians have a lot of jerks too. But they also have some amazing people.

This is by far the best post I have not only read in this thread, but on this entire forum. This post is personal, poingent, and above all, it speaks 100% of the truth only. Thank you for speaking the truth.

 

[Dalit]

Frustratingly we have a democratic process. Until he is replaced in the next election that is. It’s not like we can just pick up and chuck our prime minister in prison on bullshit charges

Yeah but you guys have a similar manifesto like Breivik. You get the gist.