Garga Chatterjee speech | Your Empire and My People

[Joe Shearer]

Not always, religion also can be a cement . In place where religion becomes fragmented these ties becomes stronger.

Of course it can, but a subordinate one. I am a Shakta Hindu; so whom do I associate with? Morons who foam at the mouth at our traditional practices, and insist that all that is wrong? This happened only last year, so spare me the cementing of ties with the cow-belt. That kind of cement is the equivalent of cement overshoes before a plunge into the ocean.

 

[Mad Scientist 2.0]

Of course it can, but a subordinate one. I am a Shakta Hindu; so whom do I associate with? Morons who foam at the mouth at our traditional practices, and insist that all that is wrong? This happened only last year, so spare me the cementing of ties with the cow-belt. That kind of cement is the equivalent of cement overshoes before a plunge into the ocean.

That I can is true as there are wide range of variations among religions. And sometimes these fractions are more vengeful towards their co religionists than to other religion. But it seems in India the concept of new "Hindu Ummah" is building while in Islam it has a ideological basis but in Hinduism it is not so it is creating lots of friction though it is gaining immense popularity as long as there is a common enemy i.e. minorities. If minorities are removed then it will surely collapse and eventually fratricide will occur .

 

[Joe Shearer]

That I can is true as there are wide range of variations among religions. And sometimes these fractions are more vengeful towards their co religionists than to other religion. But it seems in India the concept of new "Hindu Ummah" is building while in Islam it has a ideological basis but in Hinduism it is not so it is creating lots of friction though it is gaining immense popularity as long as there is a common enemy i.e. minorities. If minorities are removed then it will surely collapse and eventually fratricide will occur .

Fair enough; your own answer contains all the information needed to figure out if religion is a sufficient cement or a superordinate one, or if it is one among a set of minor factors that do not determine primary affinity - the affinity that comes to mind first when the question of affinity arises.

Beyond this, there is nothing further to be examined.

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir @AfrazulMandal

Thanks for the tag. I saw the thread yesterday but didn't watch the vid because I don't have headphones at the moment. Will do so when my brother is able to go to his office and I can borrow his headphones.

There are hardly any Bengali roadsigns or even Billboards left in Kolkata that is posted in Bengali anymore - which really strikes us Bangladeshis as odd (and shameful) when we go over there to shop etc.

I am from the Deccan / South. An old friend of mine is from Calcutta and he once said that I would enjoy a visit to Cal especially the famed "addas" of College Street, with bunches of people busy in long sessions of talking about politics and other things.

I feel it is actually good that roadsigns and billboards in Cal are increasingly written in English as that will lead to the impression of a even more cosmopolitan city.

@Joe Shearer

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thanks for the tag. I saw the thread yesterday but didn't watch the vid because I don't have headphones at the moment. Will do so when my brother is able to go to his office and I can borrow his headphones.



I am from the Deccan / South. An old friend of mine is from Calcutta and he once said that I would enjoy a visit to Cal especially the famed "addas" of College Street, with bunches of people busy in long sessions of talking about politics and other things.

I feel it is actually good that roadsigns and billboards in Cal are increasingly written in English as that will lead to the impression of a even more cosmopolitan city.

@Joe Shearer

Cosmopolitan, but on our terms. We agitate when there is a reduction of funds to the cultural budget of France; we don't need signs in English to 'larn' us about cosmopolitan outlook.

 

[itsanufy]

Think again.



PhDs from Harvard? Please get serious.

I mean to say educated people, similar to quite erudite people in the chaddi camp, the color i am not sure.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I mean to say educated people, similar to quite erudite people in the chaddi camp, the color i am not sure.

So long as you didn't literally mean a PhD. As for the colour, it is always safest to use the colour of the people you want to irritate. If you do not wish to irritate anyone, it is best to say about the colour that you are not sure

 

[Bilal9]

Thanks for the tag. I saw the thread yesterday but didn't watch the vid because I don't have headphones at the moment. Will do so when my brother is able to go to his office and I can borrow his headphones.



I am from the Deccan / South. An old friend of mine is from Calcutta and he once said that I would enjoy a visit to Cal especially the famed "addas" of College Street, with bunches of people busy in long sessions of talking about politics and other things.

I feel it is actually good that roadsigns and billboards in Cal are increasingly written in English as that will lead to the impression of a even more cosmopolitan city.

@Joe Shearer

What I meant was that the Billboards and signs are increasingly Hindi. English is fine.

That is the subject of Garga's rants.

Cosmopolitan, but on our terms. We agitate when there is a reduction of funds to the cultural budget of France; we don't need signs in English to 'larn' us about cosmopolitan outlook.

Ha ha ha good one Dada.

Of course it can, but a subordinate one. I am a Shakta Hindu; so whom do I associate with? Morons who foam at the mouth at our traditional practices, and insist that all that is wrong? This happened only last year, so spare me the cementing of ties with the cow-belt. That kind of cement is the equivalent of cement overshoes before a plunge into the ocean.

The irony is that Shakta secret societies in Kolkata are who taught Hegdewar the principles with which he formed the RSS. I don't say they taught hate, but that is what Hegdewar understood.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What I meant was that the Billboards and signs are increasingly Hindi. English is fine.

That is the subject of Garga's rants.



Ha ha ha good one Dada.



The irony is that Shakta secret societies in Kolkata are who taught Hegdewar the principles with which he formed the RSS. I don't say they taught hate, but that is what Hegdewar understood.

An excellent observation.

These were the decayed detritus of the Tantrik tradition that went into a branch of Buddhism that saw its full bloom in Tibetan Buddhism in various denominations and sects; we know the famous Gelugpa, but there are others also.

What remained was the most obnoxious remnants, some obsessed with sex, some with necromancy in all its most sinister aspects.

While I have to salute your scholarly insight, please allow me to express my annoyance at you for exposing the sleazy underside of the Shakta following. It's true, of course, and a good Muslim is entitled to a hearty laugh at our expense, but I don't have to like being exposed like this.

Beer's on you.

 

[Bilal9]

Can someone prepare a gist of what he says?

He's essentially saying that the relationship between the BJP Hindi-speaking empiricists in Delhi and those they call 'powerless' and 'effeminate' - such as people in Bengal, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Kerala are unequal.

He pointed out as a cultural pointer that language, fashion and culture in these states have been 'kool' for more than two millennia for locals, but Cow belt Hindi speaking folks in the last 50/60 years have derided and marginalized these regional fashion and cultural trends, while craftily imposing their own cow belt language & culture on these states in the excuse and guise of having a common religion. He provided examples about the type-casting and deriding of regional cultures in the narratives of Hindi-speakers.

These are tools to marginalize local cultures and establish financial exploitation on these states.

The main point he makes is that these states should make efforts to be independent of Hindi-speaking cow belt culture and influence - and above all make their own decisions on how little BJP influence (i.e. Hindutva 'kool-aid') they should allow in their own culture.

He of course stopped short of suggesting more independence from union politics, but my take is this is where this will eventually lead to for these states.

An excellent observation.

These were the decayed detritus of the Tantrik tradition that went into a branch of Buddhism that saw its full bloom in Tibetan Buddhism in various denominations and sects; we know the famous Gelugpa, but there are others also.

What remained was the most obnoxious remnants, some obsessed with sex, some with necromancy in all its most sinister aspects.

While I have to salute your scholarly insight, please allow me to express my annoyance at you for exposing the sleazy underside of the Shakta following. It's true, of course, and a good Muslim is entitled to a hearty laugh at our expense, but I don't have to like being exposed like this.

Beer's on you.

OK Dada, Beer's (I prefer mocktails) on me.

I reserve no judgment (or hearty laugh) on anyone Dada - things are what they are and 'dakho kothakar jol kothai garai' is an apt saying in our culture to describe this. It is what it is.

But hate is a sinister thing. We all have to be on the lookout to block/de-legitimize haters and those who sow division among us. Hate only benefits those who sow the seeds, not who get ignited to commit the hateful acts.

If a riot breaks out between Hindus and Muslims, only certain Hatemongers (BJP, RSS, Shivsena) win. Fear and hate strengthen the hold-on-power for these folks.

It frightens me how many educated folks have stupidly become supporters for hatemongers in India without dissecting the finer points and analyzing the motives of these folks. Social media is to be blamed first.

People in our subcontinent have to get these basic points.

 

[Joe Shearer]

He's essentially saying that the relationship between the BJP Hindi-speaking empiricists in Delhi and those they call 'powerless' and 'effeminate' - such as people in Bengal, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Kerala are unequal.

He pointed out as a cultural pointer that language, fashion and culture in these states have been 'kool' for more than two millennia for locals, but Cow belt Hindi speaking folks in the last 50/60 years have derided and marginalized these regional fashion and cultural trends, while craftily imposing their own cow belt language & culture on these states in the excuse and guise of having a common religion. He provided examples about the type-casting and deriding of regional cultures in the narratives of Hindi-speakers.

These are tools to marginalize local cultures and establish financial exploitation on these states.

The main point he makes is that these states should make efforts to be independent of Hindi-speaking cow belt culture and influence - and above all make their own decisions on how little BJP influence (i.e. Hindutva 'kool-aid') they should allow in their own culture.

He of course stopped short of suggesting more independence from union politics, but my take is this is where this will eventually lead to for these states.



OK Dada, Beer's (I prefer mocktails) on me.

I reserve no judgment (or hearty laugh) on anyone Dada - things are what they are and 'dakho kothakar jol kothai garai' is an apt saying in our culture to describe this. It is what it is.

But hate is a sinister thing. We all have to be on the lookout to block/de-legitimize haters and those who sow division among us. Hate only benefits those who sow the seeds, not who get ignited to commit the hateful acts.

If a riot breaks out between Hindus and Muslims, only certain Hatemongers (BJP, RSS, Shivsena) win. Fear and hate strengthen the hold-on-power for these folks.

It frightens me how many educated folks have stupidly become supporters for hatemongers in India without dissecting the finer points and analyzing the motives of these folks. Social media is to be blamed first.

People in our subcontinent have to get these basic points.

I could not add a comma or a full stop to your note.

 

[Bilal9]

I could not add a comma or a full stop to your note.

Thanks Dada.

Also Many Thanks for the +ve rating.

Wishing the best of health and happiness for your family in these uncertain times.