Game-Changing Chinese Missile To Pak Could Dent Navy's BrahMos Advantage

[khanasifm]

Anti sub rocket or missile Asroc

 

[amardeep mishra]

There are now ten Type-903 and Type-903A vessels serving in the Chinese fleet, according to Bei. The vessels displace 25,000 tons and are able to carry 10,500 tons fuel, 250 tons of fresh water and 680 tons of ammunition

Hi @waz
There is no doubt that China has number advantages and they are moving up the quality ladder slowly. However I wish to point out that Indian navy operates 4 replenishment ships as of now and they are-
1) Jyoti Class -1 Vessel
2) Deepak Class- 2 vessels
3) Aditya Class-1 Vessel.
Besides there are active plans to indigenously construct 5 more replenishment ships of 20000t class. Also, Type-903 is 20000t and type 903A is 23000t. China operates a total of 8 903/903A and one lone Type 908, that makes a total 9 tankers. India on the other hand has 4, the difference is slightly higher than a factor of two. In the case of hypothetical war, China will not commit all of their 9 tankers to malacca strait because they would have to defend against a much larger USN. At most 4-5 tankers will be spared for a malacca expedition. IN on the other hand can easily spare 3 of their tankers, besides Andaman Islands. So difference in this area isnt as tilted towards China in the malacca arena as you might think. Believe me I have discussed this particular issue with people that matter.

Their frigates are superior to yours as are their destroyers. They operate more frigates than your entire fleet, it's laughable you write about their ships in such a way.

This is only true for their latest type 055. And in pure technical terms, I rate their 055s to be superior to lets say P-15A or even B because it has an integrated mast with different radars. For everything else, IN matches the quality of Chinese destroyers/frigates/corvettes if not surpass them. Quantity is still an area where China is ahead of India and I am sure no one denies that.
The major problem for IN in countering PLAN is not actually their surface fleet, but rather their sub surface fleet. And after attending so many seminars, it is clearly evident that the sheer number of Chinese subs is a great concern for IN. Wishing it away is a sinisterous mistake that no one in naval HQ will do. I strongly feel that a renewed emphasis need to be placed on submarine construction program and more money need to be pumped in order for IN sub arm to hold the PLAN subs at bay. I believe this is one of the reasons why GoI is delaying the IAC-2 construction. The money will first go towards acquiring 6 SSNs.
What a lot of people here at PDF do not know that Arihants were first conceived as SSGNs (back in late 70s and 80s), the requirement for a SSBN only arose in early-mid 90s. So, Arihant class can be easily converted into SSGNs capable of carrying 12 brahmos in it's 4 silos.

These are one of the latest pics of INS Vikrant (2019)-

Picture Courtesy- BR
Notice how superstructure is almost complete.

 

[Rafi]

Hi @waz
There is no doubt that China has number advantages and they are moving up the quality ladder slowly. However I wish to point out that Indian navy operates 4 replenishment ships as of now and they are-
1) Jyoti Class -1 Vessel
2) Deepak Class- 2 vessels
3) Aditya Class-1 Vessel.
Besides there are active plans to indigenously construct 5 more replenishment ships of 20000t class. Also, Type-903 is 20000t and type 903A is 23000t. China operates a total of 8 903/903A and one lone Type 908, that makes a total 9 tankers. India on the other hand has 4, the difference is slightly higher than a factor of two. In the case of hypothetical war, China will not commit all of their 9 tankers to malacca strait because they would have to defend against a much larger USN. At most 4-5 tankers will be spared for a malacca expedition. IN on the other hand can easily spare 3 of their tankers, besides Andaman Islands. So difference in this area isnt as tilted towards China in the malacca arena as you might think. Believe me I have discussed this particular issue with people that matter.

This is only true for their latest type 055. And in pure technical terms, I rate their 055s to be superior to lets say P-15A or even B because it has an integrated mast with different radars. For everything else, IN matches the quality of Chinese destroyers/frigates/corvettes if not surpass them. Quantity is still an area where China is ahead of India and I am sure no one denies that.
The major problem for IN in countering PLAN is not actually their surface fleet, but rather their sub surface fleet. And after attending so many seminars, it is clearly evident that the sheer number of Chinese subs is a great concern for IN. Wishing it away is a sinisterous mistake that no one in naval HQ will do. I strongly feel that a renewed emphasis need to be placed on submarine construction program and more money need to be pumped in order for IN sub arm to hold the PLAN subs at bay. I believe this is one of the reasons why GoI is delaying the IAC-2 construction. The money will first go towards acquiring 6 SSNs.
What a lot of people here at PDF do not know that Arihants were first conceived as SSGNs (back in late 70s and 80s), the requirement for a SSBN only arose in early-mid 90s. So, Arihant class can be easily converted into SSGNs capable of carrying 12 brahmos in it's 4 silos.

These are one of the latest pics of INS Vikrant (2019)-
View attachment 534122 View attachment 534123 View attachment 534124
Picture Courtesy- BR
Notice how superstructure is almost complete.

Noticed. Looks $hit.

 

[GeraltofRivia]

Hi @waz
There is no doubt that China has number advantages and they are moving up the quality ladder slowly. However I wish to point out that Indian navy operates 4 replenishment ships as of now and they are-
1) Jyoti Class -1 Vessel
2) Deepak Class- 2 vessels
3) Aditya Class-1 Vessel.
Besides there are active plans to indigenously construct 5 more replenishment ships of 20000t class. Also, Type-903 is 20000t and type 903A is 23000t. China operates a total of 8 903/903A and one lone Type 908, that makes a total 9 tankers. India on the other hand has 4, the difference is slightly higher than a factor of two. In the case of hypothetical war, China will not commit all of their 9 tankers to malacca strait because they would have to defend against a much larger USN. At most 4-5 tankers will be spared for a malacca expedition. IN on the other hand can easily spare 3 of their tankers, besides Andaman Islands. So difference in this area isnt as tilted towards China in the malacca arena as you might think. Believe me I have discussed this particular issue with people that matter.

This is only true for their latest type 055. And in pure technical terms, I rate their 055s to be superior to lets say P-15A or even B because it has an integrated mast with different radars. For everything else, IN matches the quality of Chinese destroyers/frigates/corvettes if not surpass them. Quantity is still an area where China is ahead of India and I am sure no one denies that.
The major problem for IN in countering PLAN is not actually their surface fleet, but rather their sub surface fleet. And after attending so many seminars, it is clearly evident that the sheer number of Chinese subs is a great concern for IN. Wishing it away is a sinisterous mistake that no one in naval HQ will do. I strongly feel that a renewed emphasis need to be placed on submarine construction program and more money need to be pumped in order for IN sub arm to hold the PLAN subs at bay. I believe this is one of the reasons why GoI is delaying the IAC-2 construction. The money will first go towards acquiring 6 SSNs.
What a lot of people here at PDF do not know that Arihants were first conceived as SSGNs (back in late 70s and 80s), the requirement for a SSBN only arose in early-mid 90s. So, Arihant class can be easily converted into SSGNs capable of carrying 12 brahmos in it's 4 silos.

These are one of the latest pics of INS Vikrant (2019)-
View attachment 534122 View attachment 534123 View attachment 534124
Picture Courtesy- BR
Notice how superstructure is almost complete.

Good post. Please be advised that there is a newer type-901 ship in PLAN service, which are 45,000 ton displacement. 2 ships are currently in service.

https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type-901-class-fleet-replenishment-ship/

 

[ziaulislam]

assuming PLAN will leave everything to defend against USA is flawed assumption ..USA is in position to go to war so far off its boarder Unless its forced too..there is strong echo in states for usa to even withdraw from pacific and NATO treaties !
Recent refusal to sell taiwan equipment is the clear indication of this..USA would have normally sold stuff cheaper now its even refusing to sell it at a regular price

 

[amardeep mishra]

Good post. Please be advised that there is a newer type-901 ship in PLAN service, which are 45,000 ton displacement. The second ship is being built st the moment and is expected to be complete in 2019.
View attachment 534125
https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type-901-class-fleet-replenishment-ship/

This ship is really impressive. Thanks for bringing it to notice. I wish to point out that India is also beginning to construct 5 ships of 27000t tonnage as replenishment tankers. They will add to the existing 4 tankers in service with IN. However I must confess 901 is a truly impressive ship that China has designed.

 

[LKJ86]

This ship is really impressive. Thanks for bringing it to notice. I wish to point out that India is also beginning to construct 5 ships of 27000t tonnage as replenishment tankers. They will add to the existing 4 tankers in service with IN. However I must confess 901 is a truly impressive ship that China has designed.

 

[amardeep mishra]

View attachment 534127

Post more pics of this impressive ship! Thanks in advance

 

[LKJ86]

Hull 965

The second ship is being built st the moment and is expected to be complete in 2019.
View attachment 534125
https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type-901-class-fleet-replenishment-ship/

It has been finished in 2018.

Hull 967

 

[LKJ86]

This is only true for their latest type 055. And in pure technical terms, I rate their 055s to be superior to lets say P-15A or even B because it has an integrated mast with different radars. For everything else, IN matches the quality of Chinese destroyers/frigates/corvettes if not surpass them. Quantity is still an area where China is ahead of India and I am sure no one denies that.

Why are you so confident in IN's quality? Can you give me some details?

 

[LKJ86]

Type 055 DDG

Type 052D DDG

Type 052C DDG

Type 054A FFG

Type 056 FFL

 

[LKJ86]

YJ-12 & H-6G