Future Submarine fleet for Bangladesh

[Imran Khan]

In BD's case, the AIP doesn't matter unless they intend to stick their purchase for 2 instead of 4.

Good thing the PN upgraded their Augusta's. But, You'd better start thinking about the next gen of subs in PN


Yeah, I know how cool Bahrain is now, who controls it? Well, I think you already know the answer

my dear last agusta PNS HAMZA was inducted at 26 September 2008 in pak navy which you seen in saudi with me . can we have some break ? sure we will move but just give us some time .

jeddah gher but Bahrain the great

and one more thing AIP are more stealth then nuclear subs keep in mind

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Just wanted the PN to catch up, but I did hear about your modernization programs, they look epic

my dear last agusta PNS HAMZA was inducted at 26 September 2008 in pak navy which you seen in saudi with me . can we have some break ? sure we will move but just give us some time .

jeddah gher but Bahrain the great

and one more thing AIP are more stealth then nuclear subs keep in mind

Really? I thought the nuclear makes more noise than the diesel electric ones, thus it could be detectable from a vast distance :/.

 

[Imran Khan]

Just wanted the PN to catch up, but I did hear about your modernization programs, they look epic


Really? I thought the nuclear makes more noise than the diesel electric ones, thus it could be detectable from a vast distance :/.

yes thats what i said diesel AIP are more stealth then nuclear abut sonar no comments

 

[UKBengali]

Yes, An additional AIP will cost an arm and leg to the BD, something their defense budget can't manage to put on the table.

The case would be different if we were speaking of the PN or the RSNF.

What the hell are you doing in Bahrain? Come the hell back to Saudia.

I would have to respectfully disagree here.

BD now spends around 3 billion dollars a year on defence, and this includes 1 billion on equipment purchases.

This sum is around double that spent only 7 years ago when the last BNP government was in power.

You can expect the defence expenditure to double again to 6 billion dollars by 2020.

There is no reason that BD cannot purchase several Yuan class submarines(AIP included) for around 1 billion dollars by 2020.

 

[kalu_miah]

It doesn't matter wether it has an AIP in it or not. What matter is its quality. China, as a matter of fact, happens to have one of the most powerful military machines these days. I support this procurement. I'm sure the BN Navy will make a good use of it.

Bro, the S20 export version of Yuan class, also known T-039A has optional AIP, you can get it with or without. Since we need silence against adversaries sonars, we should get AIP, without it, it can be noisy and more detectable and in a war time, it can be identified and neutralized more easily. That is why PN Agosta's got AIP upgrade installed. AIP just makes deterrence level higher for our nation. For our national security, Bangladesh can afford to have AIP's in our subs, I think pretty much all Bangladeshi's will agree with me on this, regardless of our internal political divide.

I am not sure if our shipyard can handle it, but Karachi shipyard where they made the latest Agosta 90b's, I think can handle the S20 easily. If possible Bangladesh should also make it locally, under Chinese technical supervision. We may need to upgrade our shipyard equipment, but it will be worthwhile for future.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Bro,

I guess you misinterpreted my point. I was suggesting that there is no need for the AIP installed in the subs the BN Navy will get, if you have some national security concerns then yes, I might support a future like the AIP.

Bro, the S20 export version of Yuan class, also known T-039A has optional AIP, you can get it with or without. Since we need silence against adversaries sonars, we should get AIP, without it, it can be noisy and more detectable and in a war time, it can be identified and neutralized more easily. That is why PN Agosta's got AIP upgrade installed. AIP just makes deterrence level higher for our nation. For our national security, Bangladesh can afford to have AIP's in our subs, I think pretty much all Bangladeshi's will agree with me on this, regardless of our internal political divide.

I am not sure if our shipyard can handle it, but Karachi shipyard where they made the latest Agosta 90b's, I think can handle the S20 easily. If possible Bangladesh should also make it locally, under Chinese technical supervision. We may need to upgrade our shipyard equipment, but it will be worthwhile for future.

I would have to respectfully disagree here.

BD now spends around 3 billion dollars a year on defence, and this includes 1 billion on equipment purchases.

This sum is around double that spent only 7 years ago when the last BNP government was in power.

You can expect the defence expenditure to double again to 6 billion dollars by 2020.

There is no reason that BD cannot purchase several Yuan class submarines(AIP included) for around 1 billion dollars by 2020.

You misunderstood my point as well. I wasn't suggesting that the BD Navy or the MoD can't afford getting these subs with AIP tech in it. I'm just saying that there is no need to go after something which is bloody expensive for nothing - unless you have some concerns - You may also need the money you save off these subs for BDAF or its land forces.

 

[kalu_miah]

Bro,

I guess you misinterpreted my point. I was suggesting that there is no need for the AIP installed in the subs the BN Navy will get, if you have some national security concerns then yes, I might support a future like the AIP.

You misunderstood my point as well. I wasn't suggesting that the BD Navy or the MoD can't afford getting these subs with AIP tech in it. I'm just saying that there is no need to go after something which is bloody expensive for nothing - unless you have some concerns - You may also need the money you save off these subs for BDAF or its land forces.

No biggy Akhi, sorry to misinterpret your point, we know you are looking out for our well being. After all, we should save money where ever possible, so we can find better use for it in other places, like our air or land force or navy ships for example, which you have mentioned.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

No biggy Akhi, sorry to misinterpret your point, we know you are looking out for our well being. After all, we should save money where ever possible, so we can find better use for it in other places, like our air or land force or navy ships for example, which you have mentioned.

2-3 AIP subs are good, leave the rest for the naval aviation command or make it to the Air Force. I don't think money is going to be a real issue for the BD considering the fact that the whole project would take 10 years.

Thanks, you should be more impressed when you know, our GDP is increasing @6.3% per year. Compare this to your own dismal growth @ less than 4%.

Arrogance is no good Finally, for once we agree.

 

[kalu_miah]

2-3 AIP subs are good, leave the rest for the naval aviation command or make it to the Air Force. I don't think money is going to be a real issue for the BD considering the fact that the whole project would take 10 years.

Yes, I agree 2-3 AIP subs should be enough. May be we should get delivery of 1st one from China and then start building the 2nd one in our own shipyard with Chinese tech supervision.

Since subs have limited life time, like 25-30 years max, we should not get old refurbished refitted subs. Subs are special because they have to go under water and have to handle tremendous high pressure when they are diving to maximum allowable depth like 300-400 meter. So getting old sub means that we will not be able to run it for its full life time. That is why we should buy brand new latest model with latest equipment, instead of old junk, even for training. What do you think @PlanetSoldier?
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/sub/type035ming-incidents.asp

If you go through above link, A T-035B had an incident and lost all hands, 70 people. I think it had a design defect, the diesel engine shutdown switch was made manual instead of earlier automatic, and the crew could not get to it fast enough to turn off the engine.

This is the reason I am totally against Ming T-035B, which are 10-20 years old already. And those were first gen. indigenous subs made by China, then they made Song class and then came the Yuan class. With each upgrade, they have improved their own technological base and perfected many defects on earlier products. The Yuan class T-041 used by PLAN is 4000 ton, but this export version S20 (T-039A) is 2300 ton submerged and 1850 ton on surface, so it is comparable to German T-214 or French Scorpene. @GR!FF!N, I think this answers your question.

 

[eastwatch]

I believe, people here are talking about diesel-electric submarines with AIP (air independent propulsion) for BN.

 

[kalu_miah]

@Loki calling your attention please to clean up off topic posts.

 

[PlanetSoldier]

2-3 AIP subs are good, leave the rest for the naval aviation command or make it to the Air Force. I don't think money is going to be a real issue for the BD considering the fact that the whole project would take 10 years.



Arrogance is no good Finally, for once we agree.

1st see who he quoted.

 

[PlanetSoldier]

Yes, I agree 2-3 AIP subs should be enough. May be we should get delivery of 1st one from China and then start building the 2nd one in our own shipyard with Chinese tech supervision.

Since subs have limited life time, like 25-30 years max, we should not get old refurbished refitted subs. Subs are special because they have to go under water and have to handle tremendous high pressure when they are diving to maximum allowable depth like 300-400 meter. So getting old sub means that we will not be able to run it for its full life time. That is why we should buy brand new latest model with latest equipment, instead of old junk, even for training. What do you think @PlanetSoldier?
Type 035 Incidents - SinoDefence.com

If you go through above link, A T-035B had an incident and lost all hands, 70 people. I think it had a design defect, the diesel engine shutdown switch was made manual instead of earlier automatic, and the crew could not get to it fast enough to turn off the engine.

This is the reason I am totally against Ming T-035B, which are 10-20 years old already. And those were first gen. indigenous subs made by China, then they made Song class and then came the Yuan class. With each upgrade, they have improved their own technological base and perfected many defects on earlier products. The Yuan class T-041 used by PLAN is 4000 ton, but this export version S20 (T-039A) is 2300 ton submerged and 1850 ton on surface, so it is comparable to German T-214 or French Scorpene. @GR!FF!N, I think this answers your question.

I think if they go for off the shelf ones (most possible), they should go for at least Song but then we need the subs in our fleet to start off and in that sense any is welcome. At the beginning getting brand new ones have many issues at least for us...if they can manage, that's good.

Another thing that I believe if we can start somehow now, it'll be growing. Just think of our navy in 80s we had almost nothing, President Zia had to send one 50s British frigate for Talpatti. Now look at it, it's quite smart force now. So, let's start.

 

[noname1]

I allways like this story and its a good example of USSR/Russian workmanship.

USSR's first-ever nuclear sub was destroyed by beer bottle cap

The first and one of the major accidents at the Navy of the USSR took place 45 years ago. On September 8, 1967, an accident on board the first Soviet nuclear submarine K-3 Leninsky Komsomol killed 39 people. The causes of the accident had been classified for 20 years. It is only now, in September 2012, when a special commission is going to finish the investigation

"A non-standard gasket from...a beer bottle was installed in the ballast tank. Naturally it was displaced, the hydraulic fluid leaked under the pressure of 100 atmospheres and got sprayed onto the lamp, which had a broken protective cap. Inflammation occurred immediately," former assistant commander of the K-3 said. USSR's first-ever nuclear sub was destroyed by beer bottle cap - English pravda.ru

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

1st see who he quoted.

Did you even bother looking at who East quoted? Or even bother trying to understand what I was implying? In fact, my statement came in his defense. LoLz..