future dog fights :D

[Sapper]

You are correct...On being sillier. Ultimately, we all live in our own worlds, whether those worlds includes elements from reality or not is a question for mental health professionals. The F-22 was designed in full compliance with the laws of physics. In trying to explain to us how Pakistan could detect the F-22, try not to violate those laws.

Dear gambit,

You know i am BIG BIG fan of F22 and a great admirer of the engineering and effort that went into producing this masterpiece. F22 is the first production example of fully functional and extremely capable 5th Generation Fighter. Even if F22's Stealth (Low RCS) fails to evade enemy radar, its non 5th Gen. attributes i.e. aerodynamics, TWR, LPI radar, long range AESA detection, ECM/ECCM/RWR electronics suit and extremely potent weapons are more than a match for any "production" fighter for next 10~15 years.

That said, It must be remembered that 5th Gen. radar evasion characteristics only stay advantageous at ranges of greater than 30~50km (20~35mi), and at these ranges even the "stealth" aircraft can be detected (unless the radar is being jammed). The major goal of "Stealth"'s fighter is to fire long/medium range AAMs and standoff weapons while avoiding getting close to radars. Even if SEAD requires penetration of radar detectable space, a complete range of 4th Gen. attributes i.e. jamming-modes are available to defuse the threat, but at that perticular moment, "stealth" is lost. When radar killing succeeds, F22 is "stealth" once again.



For that scenario, It must be remembered that PAF has had WVR doctrine uptill now, and all PAF intercepts are GCIs and will remain so even after the induction of AEW&C and Long Range Radars. PAF will still preferentially use ground based command centers for its BVR combats as well, due to excellent sensor fusion and defensive doctrine. For that, PAF has deployed 50 or so "Major" Low, Medium & High Altitude Radars all over Pakistani Airspace, covering literally 100% airspace, and multiple levels of overlap.

Pakistan has a very limited airspace 500km across BY 1500 km long, and that's it. PAF Radar deployment is extremely redundant and at no place within the airspace, an aircraft is more than 50~100 km from a radar/sam-site. At those ranges even the "stealth" fighters get detected unless using radar jamming.

Please Also remember that PAF's Air-Defence-Radar coverage is also redundant to Pak-Army's own AD, which has its own Radars placed to protect strategic assets whilst providing SAM coverage.

I think that was the point my fella was trying to make, but in a provocative and unsupported manner. I apologize on behalf of him for his provocative remarks.

F22 Rules.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[Super Falcon]

future dog fights is end of the world no need money to run world

 

[gambit]

That said, It must be remembered that 5th Gen. radar evasion characteristics only stay advantageous at ranges of greater than 30~50km (20~35mi), and at these ranges even the "stealth" aircraft can be detected (unless the radar is being jammed). The major goal of "Stealth"'s fighter is to fire long/medium range AAMs and standoff weapons while avoiding getting close to radars. Even if SEAD requires penetration of radar detectable space, a complete range of 4th Gen. attributes i.e. jamming-modes are available to defuse the threat, but at that perticular moment, "stealth" is lost. When radar killing succeeds, F22 is "stealth" once again.

Incorrect...What we casually called 'stealth' exist long before radar low observable aircraft. Believe it or not, the F-111 is considered to be 'stealth' due to its terrain following (TF) capability, which put it below most radar horizon. Radar 'stealth' is about avoiding radar detection by ANY means, including body shaping. ECM is not considered 'stealth' because the presence of ECM indicate an transmitting platform. Flying 'nape-of-the-earth' advertises nothing. One simply try to avoid, as much as possible, any seeking radar. If there is no radar, there is no 'radar stealth' regardless of what the aircraft may look like.

Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD) intends to destroy all radars, but we know that is not possible. So what SEAD does, despite intentions, is to suppress, as much as possible, any transmission. To destroy is the ultimate suppression, but destruction is not the same as suppression. So if SEAD manages to intimidate radar transmissions to a minimum, as long as the radar threat remain viable, there is a need for 'radar stealth'. The problem for the defenders is that because they know there are radar low observable hostiles out there, they have no choice but to advertise their intentions and locations in the event that they may detect a 'stealth' aircraft, even when such detection is at weapons release distance by the hostiles. Low odds are better than no odds at all.

 

[Storm Force]

NICE OF THE AMERICANS TO INCLUDE SU30MKI & RAFAEL as worthy opponents to F22 IN THE VEDIO FROM THE DOSENS THAT COULD HAVE PICKED LIKE

TYPHOON J10 JF17 THUNDER OR GRIPEN OR J11

 

[zagahaga]

NICE OF THE AMERICANS TO INCLUDE SU30MKI & RAFAEL as worthy opponents to F22 IN THE VEDIO FROM THE DOSENS THAT COULD HAVE PICKED LIKE

TYPHOON J10 JF17 THUNDER OR GRIPEN OR J11

well the aircrafts thar you menchioned are nott soo populor on the market ..... su 30 is a prime fighter ... but half of the video is BS the pilots will do efacesive manuvers they wont be like sitting ducks willing to get hit by an ammramm... its all american BS PROPERGANDA

 

[amarnath]

Pakistan can make 6th generation fighter with the same amount of dollars indian spent on LCA and no Israel help.

 

[zagahaga]

so ?? all you need to make a 6 gen fighter is some plasma and stealth

 

[BATMAN]

@ Gambit: not objecting what you wrote but just putting across the comprihensive senario.

Have you seen Top Gun movie from Tom cruise?

A simple patrol can detect all intruders before they reach their targets or objectives.
Once the threat perception increase, patrol can be increased and retaliatory measures (not limited to fighter a/c) can be set to action.
provided, hostile intrusion from stealth or non stealth be considered as begining of war.

 

[zagahaga]

f 22 vs pak fa ? how can they dog fight ? when both are undetectable on radar

 

[Creder]

What are you gonna dog fight with ? yourself ?... The Idea of dogfights seems to slip away more and more as the balance shifts more towards the machine than the man whose flying it

just my two ruppees

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Is it possible not to jam the radar?

 

[zagahaga]

What are you gonna dog fight with ? yourself ?... The Idea of dogfights seems to slip away more and more as the balance shifts more towards the machine than the man whose flying it

just my two ruppees

if you looked at the videos i posted i think you would know that mechines are takeing control of man like the f 22 dose not allow the pilot to take tight turns on a 9g baises. LOL

 

[zagahaga]

FGFA CAME OUT F22 ALREADY OUT.... if two confortrait what will happen

 

[LCA Tejas]

Pakistan can make 6th generation fighter with the same amount of dollars indian spent on LCA and no Israel help.

BTW......I'm glad to see at least indian members are getting sensible. Just two year ago LCA blk 1 use to hold same position which you just described for PAKFA!!

Pakistan can make 6th generation fighter?? Really???? Come on You dont have an R&D Institution which is even capable of making design, leave alone the avionics and other softwares.... may I know Pakistan's contribution in JF-17 exept the money????Come to reality, face it....

 

[zagahaga]

one thing i would want to ask... IRST can it detect stealth?