Fund Raising Status for Diamer Basha And Mohmand Dam

[Zhukov]

Why not? did we pay rupees for the feasibility study? what about the construction companies that will participate in building the dam? a major portion of the cost will be dollar denominated


Mutual funds bad idea.....rupee deposits can be invested in rupee denominated government instruments while dollar denominated should be invested in Treasury instruments....but for that we need to have a timeline. Two things I expected from this government was transparency on CPEC projects and transparency on dam projects so far its not happening which means sunk cost fallacy. On top of saying we have no money, the PM wants new housing (noble but not the need of the hour)

The Funds are already with government. Mutual funds go to private sector and thats where productivity is. Which boosts exports and create employment. Government cannot borrow money from itself.
What transparency do you expect from Dam projects so far which dam projects have been started on which you want transparency?
CPEC deals are already signed, it should have been open from the beginning, Their should be a lot of commitments and guarantees included in all CPEC deals when they were done, and one cannot come in and dishonor all the agreements in a few months. all they can do is make public any new projects and gradually make the details public by taking investors into confidence as well. No creating a fuss between your only Ally.
And Sunk costs are their as agreements are already signed. and they are not related to disclosure of details or not, they are related to if for example any project is cancelled or delayed or not going as planned etc.

 

[valkyr_96]

The Funds are already with government.......

a) If the money is invested in the stock market there is a chance that negative returns (caused by macro -as is evident currently or micro) can eat away the initial collection. This happens all the time no one give a shit if its private money but if it public money then it is a huge loss (read up on Bob Citreon and Orange County). This is also why it has been difficult to go after these so called Foundations in Pakistan because they start bitching they can't take losses on their pensions funds (yes i said that sue me). Secondly, unless mutual funds are investing in IPOs the money simply exchanges hands and does not go benefit the company directly. Most stocks in Pakistan are overvalued by virtue of structural limitation, favorable taxation etc. trading is done on technicals and not fundamentals. Also government borrow money from the public through bonds....why this is not happening? do your own research....because i can't rant anymore.

b) lets see the feasibility reports....it is evident from the dilly dallying that most of these projects (big hydels or IPP) do not make financial sense and have to subsidized by the consumers. No competition was sought before signing the power purchase agreements and now the government cannot go back on its promise without incurring litigation cost and international disrepute. Furthermore, the previous government lied or did not even know about how much the financing/equity mix was. I don't think we will hear any details about these projects. The issue here is that once these projects fail the Chinese will move into to take over them and this will feed into the Western narrative plus it will fuel negative sentiments against them locally. I would also like to make this clear that Chinese take on the Indians repeatedly on the issue of GB and CPEC at different economic moots (Pakistani government/banking community is nowhere to be seen) where the Indian diplomats create a lot of brouhaha. The Chinese have promised to shift entire industrial units to Pakistan but this remains to be seen. The Chinese needs to ensure that there is traffic on the CPEC route and Pakistan makes enough foreign exchange to match the upcoming CPEC liabilities, otherwise it is doom and gloom.

Imran Khan needs to drop his election slogans and need to calibrate the economy for maximum efficiency, even if it means revisiting agreements, cutting down housing projects (why a house? why not council estates). Lets just say I am privy to some upcoming BRT facts/number, if I told you of the gross incompetence during the whole project you will stab me repeatedly and kill yourself. Also I am done ranting here. Peace

 

[VCheng]

It is up to the Govt who will decide the financial requirements of the project.

Okay. So who controls this bank account, and under what law?

 

[xyxmt]

Why not? did we pay rupees for the feasibility study? what about the construction companies that will participate in building the dam? a major portion of the cost will be dollar denominated

feasibility study was done loooong time ago, all the excavation and construction material is local, majot cost of a dam is acquiring land and resettlement. only time when you need dollars is for power generation part of it

 

[AsifIjaz]

The money found lying in accounts of normal day 2 day wagers.... Should be included in dam fund.
We woukd get another billion by those accounts only

 

[Syed1.]

The money found lying in accounts of normal day 2 day wagers.... Should be included in dam fund.
We woukd get another billion by those accounts only

Just today there was news that Rs4.6 billion were found in an account that was opened recently and the "owner" of the account has been deceased for 4 years.

These accounts are how these corrupt politicians and bureaucrats are funnelling billions upon billions out of the country.

 

[Zhukov]

a) If the money is invested in the stock market there is a chance that negative returns (caused by macro -as is evident currently or micro) can eat away the initial collection. This happens all the time no one give a shit if its private money but if it public money then it is a huge loss (read up on Bob Citreon and Orange County). This is also why it has been difficult to go after these so called Foundations in Pakistan because they start bitching they can't take losses on their pensions funds (yes i said that sue me). Secondly, unless mutual funds are investing in IPOs the money simply exchanges hands and does not go benefit the company directly. Most stocks in Pakistan are overvalued by virtue of structural limitation, favorable taxation etc. trading is done on technicals and not fundamentals. Also government borrow money from the public through bonds....why this is not happening? do your own research....because i can't rant anymore.

b) lets see the feasibility reports....it is evident from the dilly dallying that most of these projects (big hydels or IPP) do not make financial sense and have to subsidized by the consumers. No competition was sought before signing the power purchase agreements and now the government cannot go back on its promise without incurring litigation cost and international disrepute. Furthermore, the previous government lied or did not even know about how much the financing/equity mix was. I don't think we will hear any details about these projects. The issue here is that once these projects fail the Chinese will move into to take over them and this will feed into the Western narrative plus it will fuel negative sentiments against them locally. I would also like to make this clear that Chinese take on the Indians repeatedly on the issue of GB and CPEC at different economic moots (Pakistani government/banking community is nowhere to be seen) where the Indian diplomats create a lot of brouhaha. The Chinese have promised to shift entire industrial units to Pakistan but this remains to be seen. The Chinese needs to ensure that there is traffic on the CPEC route and Pakistan makes enough foreign exchange to match the upcoming CPEC liabilities, otherwise it is doom and gloom.

Imran Khan needs to drop his election slogans and need to calibrate the economy for maximum efficiency, even if it means revisiting agreements, cutting down housing projects (why a house? why not council estates). Lets just say I am privy to some upcoming BRT facts/number, if I told you of the gross incompetence during the whole project you will stab me repeatedly and kill yourself. Also I am done ranting here. Peace

Lolz no need to rant. Just talk peacefully.
For the second point you are saying the same thing as i am. We have walked into it, whether it turns out to be a trap or is managed is yet to be seen and their can be difference of opinion among the analysts as the outcomes are in future, but the execution have been done already and you cant walk out simply like that from these projects.
For the first point, i principally disagree here, you have right to have your own opinion. Only Private sector have the productivity and efficiency to drive the economy and government into progress. All modern successfully countries have vibrant private sectors with huge capital invested in corporate sector while individual and government holdings are just marginal. Only corporate sector and public funded enterprises can take us out of this economic quagmire. Economy does not simply LOOSE money, Its just shifts hands. Recession and Depression is not due to SHORTAGE of money because of loss, but due to slowdown of circulation of money in appropriate sectors. Developing countries have "misplaced priorities of funds" I would even go as far as to kick start a third world country like Pakistan, Government should borrow huge funds from Public and invest it directly into infrastructure projects under its own supervision and invest it into money markets. Just like Germany did in 1930s.
Yes government should borrow money from public through bonds, BUT not to pay salaries of government servants or invest in public sector enterprises. But to give it to Corporate sector. i.e move the funds from unproductive individual holdings to large scale industry and corporations where economies of scales and all corporate sector benefits can be incurred.
We have to take risks and drastic measures. Just not taking steps just because of fear of something going wrong is not the case when boat is sinking (Trade deficit piling up, Exports going down, Foreign Loans compounding, Fiscal deficit not paying the dividends it should be etc)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Owned by state money is 100% for state

 

[valkyr_96]

Lolz no need to rant. Just talk peacefully.
For the second point you are saying the same thing as i am. We have walked into it, whether it turns out to be a trap or is managed is yet to be seen and their can be difference of opinion among the analysts as the outcomes are in future, but the execution have been done already and you cant walk out simply like that from these projects.
.....

I can't because you are out of depth here and I simply can't connect all the dots for anyone (which is why most conversations are a troll-fest) I think you missed my point which was specific to where the deposit should be placed irrespective of how the economy works (be it market or bank based) i was merely asserting that we actually might end up losing the collected deposits, in case of a stock market slide, whereas bonds guarantee the safety of capital albeit at the cost of nominal returns(did you read that AJS -now US Ambassador wanted PK to start a sovereign fund investing in real estate but was eventually stopped because of the volatility in investing in such an asset class)

.....but just to add to your opinion which is frankly all over the place you want a vibrant private sector and also want Government spending like post war Germany and Japan (where are our chaebols / keiretsu / hausbank structures)....missing in between in the crowding our effect (which frankly is exacerbated by the commercial activities of the armed forces).

This is my take, the private sector is not ambitious enough they don't want anything to do with R&D (think our car industry...Vietnam is producing it own car now)...they want shortcuts, long term financing facilities, tax breaks and favorable guaranteed revenues. I worked in IB, most IPOs are for sugar coated for new growth avenues and projects but it is really the the founder/private shareholders needing to div out....especially to foreign investors. That money does not come in it remains outside. What you need to realize is that in the US/UK companies buy and sell stock depending on if they need money or have too much of the money, this is not the case in Pakistan.

The public sector is incapable of understanding financial concepts such as IRR/payback/NPV/currency mismatch/asset-liability matching.....being socially optimum should mean -the incremental cash flows are reinvested for sustainability so there is no need for subsidies but no...our government borrows to refinance the circular debt, to finance loss make PSEs and now introducing BRTs.

I am okay with the direction of the current government but they have been slow and not transparent enough the problem is austerity now improves our future prospects but not fulfilling campaign promises means that the new government will ruin all the gains. If you are from Karachi maybe we can talk sometimes.

feasibility study was done loooong time ago, all the excavation and construction material is local, majot cost of a dam is acquiring land and resettlement. only time when you need dollars is for power generation part of it

My point is that we do not have the expertise to build this dam anyone we bring in be it the Chinese or Americans will require USD payments. if that is not the case then maybe you should have referred to AzadPakistan who is the one converting PKR into USD including his proposed $100 tax on all Pakistanis -which was my original complaint.

 

[pkuser2k12]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1052252830608871424

 

[KAMDEV]

Bank: State Bank of Pakistan
Account Name: THE SUPREME COURT OF PAKISTAN AND THE PRIME MINISTER OF PAKISTAN DIAMER-BHASHA AND MOHMAND DAMS FUND
Account No: 03-593-299999-001-4
Total Amount: Rs. 5,075,873,566
(Five billion seventy-five million eight hundred seventy-three thousand five hundred sixty-six rupees)

View attachment 505409
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Amount collected so far : $ 38623296.53(Rs. 5,075,873,566 )
Target : $14 Billion
Percentage Achieved : 0.27%

But as per CJP, 25% of the required funds will be generated from donations and other means while rest of them, will be generated by the Govt. So if that is the case:

Target : $ 3.5 Billion
Percentage Achieved : 1.10%

It will take 99 years at this rate.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

It will take 99 years at this rate.

lol yes but Govt will spend $1.5 -2 billions every year for the project. Govt is hoping to cover the 20 % of the total cost through donations over the period of 7 to 8 years.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Massive Rs 1 billion surge in the last 24 hrs.

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Bank: State Bank of Pakistan
Account Name: THE SUPREME COURT OF PAKISTAN AND THE PRIME MINISTER OF PAKISTAN DIAMER-BHASHA AND MOHMAND DAMS FUND
Account No: 03-593-299999-001-4
Total Amount: Rs. 6,377,503,951
(Six billion three hundred seventy-seven million five hundred three thousand nine hundred fifty-one rupees)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Congrats on reaching 6.377 Billion Figure .....but it was expected as some folks had announced some big donation 3-4 days ago and check clearance would have kicked in 5 days later

Wow 6.377 Billion Rupee all 100% in Pakistan

• 9,000 rupee per person (72 dollar ) x 200,000,000 people = 1,800,000,000,000 Rupees (14.4 Billion Dollars)

We are only scratching the surface of what we can do as a nation if we come together each week and commit something weekly

2 x 5,000 Rupee notes = Gets Pakistan Freedom from Any Kind of Loans

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

Massive Rs 1 billion surge in the last 24 hrs.

-

Bank: State Bank of Pakistan
Account Name: THE SUPREME COURT OF PAKISTAN AND THE PRIME MINISTER OF PAKISTAN DIAMER-BHASHA AND MOHMAND DAMS FUND
Account No: 03-593-299999-001-4
Total Amount: Rs. 6,377,503,951
(Six billion three hundred seventy-seven million five hundred three thousand nine hundred fifty-one rupees)

View attachment 505927

People of Karachi donated 1 billion PKR few weeks back I think this is that money.