From Pakistan, answers needed

[Ignited Mind]

From Pakistan, answers needed
​

LET'S see if we've got the numbers straight: Osama bin Laden lived in five houses in Pakistan, fathered four children there, kept three wives who took dictation for his rambling directives to his terror network, had two children born in public hospitals - and through it all, the Pakistani government did not know one single thing about his whereabouts?

Can this possibly be true? I suppose that if US intelligence officials could fail to connect the dots about the 9/11 plot, then perhaps Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence directorate could be equally incompetent. And US officials, with the cautious tone of witnesses who hope they won't have to testify at the trial, keep repeating that they haven't found the "smoking gun" that would confirm official Pakistani knowledge about the al-Qa'ida chief hiding in Abbottabad.

But this isn't a question for Americans, really. It's a matter for Pakistani officials.

They can tear down bin Laden's compound - as Pakistani bulldozers did recently in a cleansing manoeuvre that reminded me of Lady Macbeth's famous line, "Out, damned spot! Out, I say!" but they can't wish away questions about the jihadist network that surrounded bin Laden and his accomplices during their nearly decade-long sojourn in the country.

Here are some questions Pakistanis (with American acquiescence) have been ducking too long:

* How did bin Laden settle in Abbottabad? His movements are described by his youngest wife, Amal Ahmed al-Sadah, in an Islamabad police report. She says that "everything was arranged by" two men she called "Ibrahim" and "Abrar" who shared their safe houses in Swat Valley, Haripur and finally Abbottabad.

* What did the Pakistani authorities know about these Pashtun brothers? US officials believe that one of them, known as Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, was bin Laden's key courier. An intrepid AP reporter last week found their house in Haripur; the real estate broker said he had rented it to "Salim and Javed Khan," who claimed to be from Charsadda, just north of Peshawar.

The AP reported that, according to a relative of the house's owner, "two months ago, several ISI agents took all the records of the house and its tenants." The same thing seems to have happened with the property records for the Abbottabad compound. What do these documents show? The ISI should explain.

* What role was played by Brigadier Ijaz Shah? According to comments by General Ziauddin Butt, a former ISI chief, Shah arranged the al-Qa'ida leader's 2005 move to Abbottabad. At the time, Shah, a retired ISI officer, was running another spy agency, the Intelligence Bureau, for his patron, President Pervez Musharraf.

Shah's name had surfaced in February 2002 as the alleged handler of Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, who claimed a role in kidnapping Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. It turned out that Pearl had been handed over to Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the al-Qa'ida mastermind, who beheaded him. Some Pakistanis argue that Sheikh was part of a jihadist organisation, Harkat ul-Mujaheddin, that had close ties to Shah and the ISI. What does the ISI say?

* And where was the notorious KSM hiding out when he was captured in March 2003? He was at a Rawalpindi safe house linked to Ahmed Abdul Qudoos Khan, who is described in press reports as a member of Pakistan's oldest Islamist party, Jamaat-e-Islami. Pakistani analysts say this group, too, has long had quiet links with the ISI and the military.

* How about Abu Zubaida, the al-Qa'ida operative captured in Pakistan in March 2002? He was seized in Faisalabad at what was described in press reports as a safe house for the Kashmiri militant group Lashkar-i-Taiba, which is also alleged to have close links with the ISI. The ISI is said to have joined in his capture, but did they have advance word he was there?

* What about the Pakistani sojourn of Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, a Tanzanian al-Qaeda operative involved in the 1998 bombings of US embassies in Africa? He was captured in July 2004 in the eastern city of Gujrat, far from the tribal areas. How did he get there? And what about Ramzi Binalshibh, a facilitator of the 9/11 attacks who was captured in September 2002 in Karachi. How did he make his way undetected to Pakistan's commercial capital?

Perhaps the answers to these questions will show the ISI in a favourable light, providing helpful intelligence to the CIA. Perhaps they will tell a darker story of concealment and complicity. Either way, it's time for some answers.

Washington Post Writers Group

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[Pakistanisage]

I have to remind all these moronic US and Western Journalist that "James Whitey Bulger" was on US Most Wanted List for 16 years. He was living with his girlfriend in Santa Monica California in Plain sight. He belonged to a big Gymnasium where he used to work out. He shopped at the local grocery store once a week and took haircuts with the same barber once a month. He frequented Santa Monica Restaurants with his girl friend openly. If the FBI of most advanced country in the World did not find him for 16 years, how they expect Pakistan with its meagre resources could be expected to keep track of Osama Bin Laden ?

 

[Icewolf]

1. A sprawling mansion? Kid, have you seen the pic of "Osama's" house? It looks the same as everyone elses around it.

2. Osama's house was not near the GHQ. You should research before you talk. It really pisses me off when Indians cannot back up their claims. Actually, "Osama's" house was near a military academy.

3. Any proof that Osama was?

4. F-16 BLK 50 to track a person. You Indians are making me laugh.

5.

 

[Pakistanisage]

1. Did that guy build his own gym and grocery store ? In this case a sprawling mansion was built exclusively to host that OBL

2. OBL was living blocks away from the GHQ. your other guy was living in suburbs far away from FBI office..

3. US was not the one continuously ranting every third day that their most wanted guy is not in American soil which was not the case with GoP.

4. Pakistan had after all deployed F16 block-50 to track OBL which was not the case with FBI. Don't say you had meager resources.

5. ...... will give a pause for the moment.

Your post are so ridiculous that I cannot stop laughing. Did you ever take a course in Logic in college.
What has buying property got to do with finding a man. Do you think OBL went to the real estate office and declared " I am Osama Ben Laden and I would like to buy a big house of such dimensions" . Obviously the property was purchased by his front people i.e. the two brothers he trusted who were there with him.

Osama Bin Laden did not live blocks from GHQ, Genius. Abbottabad is over 65 miles from GHQ. You are playing fast and loose with facts. Even if he lived close to GHQ, Army does not conduct a house to house search of the whole city where GHQ exists.

And F16 deployed to search Osama Bin Laden. Now I know you are not playing with a full deck. Hellooooo - the lights are on but nobody seems to be home. Looks like the your upper storey has a TOLET sign on in neon lights. Get some help dude, Seriously...

 

[VelocuR]

Already explained this....don't waste time.

WASHINGTON: No evidence has been found which directly links the Pakistani authorities and Osama bin Laden’s ability to live and operate within a stone’s throw of one of Pakistan’s most important military installations, US Secretary of Defence Leon Panetta said in an interview with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

In the interview, the US secretary of defence said that most of the material extracted from the Abbottabad compound – where a unilateral raid was conducted on May 2, 2011 by US Special Forces, killing the al Qaeda leader – had been reviewed and “no direct links” between the Pakistani establishment and Bin Laden were found, the report said.

However, he added: “Well, you know, in these situations sometimes, the leadership within Pakistan is obviously not aware of certain things and yet people lower down in the military establishment know it very well.

They’ve been aware of it. But the bottom line is that we have not had evidence that provides that direct link.”

Panetta said: “Obviously the concern has always been how a compound like this could operate, how Bin Laden could be in an area where there were military installations, where we could see the military operating.

“But I have not heard any kind of evidence that involved a direct connection to the Pakistanis.”

Talking about Pakistan’s troubled relationship with the US, Panetta said in the interview that relations between the two allies were “complex”.

“It’s a complex relationship. It always has been and I suspect it always will be.

“In some ways we share a common concern and a common threat. Terrorism is as much a threat to Pakistan and the people of Pakistan as it is to us and to the people of Afghanistan. And the fact is that they lost an awful lot of lives because of terrorism.”

Appreciating Pakistan’s efforts in the war against terrorism, the US secretary of defence added: “They continue to conduct military operations against the terrorists. So in many ways we have common cause.

“We’ve had ups and downs, but my view is it’s an absolutely essential relationship if we’re going to be able to go after the enemy that we’re concerned about,” he said, adding “you can’t really have peace in Afghanistan until you have peace in Pakistan.”

No direct link between Pakistan authorities and OBL: Panetta – The Express Tribune
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...between-pakistan-authorities-obl-panetta.html

 

[Shatterpoint]

I am sure our Pakistani friends will say its all a conspiracy against the land of the pure and the MOSSAD, CIA, RAW, The Aliens are all out to destroy Muslims, blah, blah, blah.

 

[Rusty]

I am sure our Pakistani friends will say its all a conspiracy against the land of the pure and the MOSSAD, CIA, RAW, The Aliens are all out to destroy Muslims, blah, blah, blah.

Looking at the genocide against Muslims in the last decade or so, can you really blame them?
Nearly a million people killed in this "War on terror"
What were their crimes? being Muslims?

 

[Solomon2]

Looking at the genocide against Muslims in the last decade or so, can you really blame them?
Nearly a million people killed in this "War on terror"
What were their crimes? being Muslims?

Go on, don't stop now. Go into the details of each person slain over the past twelve years.

 

[Perceptron]

Go on, don't stop now. Go into the details of each person slain over the past twelve years.

The problem is in the midst of this "Muslim genocide by WoT" strawman, scarce does he realize that Muslims have killed more muslims than have Non-Muslims in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Rwanda and elsewhere.

 

[Rusty]

Go on, don't stop now. Go into the details of each person slain over the past twelve years.

why? so you can get your jollys from hearing about how innocent Muslims died?

The problem is in the midst of this "Muslim genocide by WoT" strawman, scarce does he realize that Muslims have killed more muslims than have Non-Muslims in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Rwanda and elsewhere.

and the problem with people like this is that they still believe they are slaves to the white man. And they must tow the white man's line or else.

Non-Indian readers will no doubt realize that I blamed the "war on terror" for the deaths.
That means the deaths caused by all sides.
But then again, I never knew Indian members to be very smart to begin with. So it's expected that they could not comprehend such high level thoughts.

 

[Solomon2]

why? so you can get your jollys from hearing about how innocent Muslims died?

My "jollys"? How can you properly determine justice if you remain in ignorance?

and the problem with people like this is that they still believe they are slaves to the white man.

Or is all your thinking "tribal"?

 

[Rusty]

My "jollys"? How can you properly determine justice if you remain in ignorance?

Or is all your thinking "tribal"?

So now you are going to shed crocodile tears?
Is that your new game?
Murder innocent people, then pretend to care?
No one should be surprised really, your forefathers perfected this game.
Commit genocide, and placate the population. Take their land/resources/what have you.
Then commission a plaque about the "wrong" you did.

And I rather think "Tribal" then "genocidal"

 

[Solomon2]

So now you are going to shed crocodile tears?
Is that your new game?

Building on your personal example, I'm beginning to think the divide between Muslim and Jew - or you and I, at least - is that Jews pray for peace and seek truth and justice, whereas Muslims pray for success, both for themselves and their ummah; if corruption furthers these ends a Pakistani like yourself will seek to do it.

Murder innocent people, then pretend to care?

You won't investigate. You are prejudiced as to both numbers and guilt. Why should anybody, even you, consider your own words credible, at least compared to mine?

 

[Perceptron]

why? so you can get your jollys from hearing about how innocent Muslims died?




and the problem with people like this is that they still believe they are slaves to the white man. And they must tow the white man's line or else.

Non-Indian readers will no doubt realize that I blamed the "war on terror" for the deaths.
That means the deaths caused by all sides.
But then again, I never knew Indian members to be very smart to begin with. So it's expected that they could not comprehend such high level thoughts.

Yeah rite, and the same person who accuses others of being a slave of the white man, speaks in a language of the white man, uses the bits&bytes marvel of the white man to write in a place hosted by the white man living in a country governed by the white man !!! Heck, is this sycophantic slavery or what ?

And lets come to the other strawman. Muslims have killed more muslims in these countries inspite of all this Ummah-Chummah claptrap which means that a muslim will swoop down upon a fellow muslim once the powers that be leave him to the mercy of the majority Muslim sect/ethnicity/creed/race. But again i am talking to those whose nationalist frustrations lead them into any make-believe conspiracy their idle minds spin.