From Harappa to Pakistan - 4,000 Year Journey

[SarthakGanguly]

There are no people on earth who have not faced rape, pillage and plunder. You are supposedly a Kashmiri Pandit, do you want me to tell you what happen to your people in Kashmir?

What the official Pakistan policy is none of your business. Pakistanis, regardless of religion, are the people of this land. The history, both good and bad, belongs to us. If 100 years down the line, Pakistanis choose to call themselves Klingons, it will not change their history or ancestry. Hindki, Hindokawan, Sindhu etc are all names that were used to describe my people/land by others. Pakistan is a name we chose for ourselves and we are happy with it.

You should perhaps stop using the name of our river as your country's name. It won't make you anymore inheritors of the Indus Valley than me. You should choose something more localized to your land, only the north west people of the republic of "India" can in theory use that name.

I was polite. My mistake.
A more apt response.
Buzz off.

 

[Pakistani E]

I was polite. My mistake.
A more apt response.
Buzz off.

LoL. Read the thread title:


"From Harappa to Pakistan - 4,000 Year Journey"

Khudi tang arrai hai, this doesn't concern overweight pandits.

 

[Zibago]

SomeOne get me a time machine , I want to go back . M8henjo daro, harrapaa, taxila. . What a simple tension free life .

No bijli,nalkay wala pani,motor car aur **** sarkain

 

[Indus Pakistan]

There are no people on earth who have not faced rape, pillage and plunder. You are supposedly a Kashmiri Pandit, do you want me to tell you what happen to your people in Kashmir?

This rape, invasion, plunder is a farcical argument put forward repeatedly by Indians. No people on earth over the last 5,000 years has been free from invasions, rapes and plunder. Hell ask the Indian's how many Islamic raiders came and took over their land (Indians) and enslaved them? The way point fingers at us is as if they managed to beat every invader came to India in the last 5,000 years. Have they forgotten about the British? Have the Indian's forgotten how Britain starved them in millions as late as 1943?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/2010/10/how_churchill_starved_india.html

What the official Pakistan policy is none of your business. Pakistanis, regardless of religion, are the people of this land. The history, both good and bad, belongs to us. If 100 years down the line, Pakistanis choose to call themselves Klingons, it will not change their history or ancestry. Hindki, Hindokawan, Sindhu etc are all names that were used to describe my people/land by others. Pakistan is a name we chose for ourselves and we are happy with it.

What religion we are. what language we speak. Who are ancestors are is our business. I take exception to some guy in Chennai, Mumbai or Kolkatta lecturing me about Taxila. Whatever the case maybe it is definitely non of their business but the natives of that area.

And no people from 5,000 years have kept exactly the same religion, same genetics, same culture, same food habits, same language. Not the Egyptians, not the Italians etc ec.

You should perhaps stop using the name of our river as your country's name. It won't make you anymore inheritors of the Indus Valley than me. You should choose something more localized to your land, only the north west people of the republic of "India" can in theory use that name.

Truth be told it about the name only. Just because they are called "India" they think they own the entire sub-continent. I mean does Romania go around claiming Roman Empire and lecture Italians that they are a new state that did not exist before 1880s? Ancient Rome used feed Christians to the lions. Today irony of ironies Rome is home of the Catholic Church and most Italians are proud Christians. I would to see Indians telling Indians that they have nothing to do with the gloriuos heritage of their land because they are called "Italians" today and are Christians - a Middle Eastern Semite religion.

I think we need to pull the rug underneath the Ganga Indians. How about we change name of Pakistan to "Asia". So it should be styled "Islamic Republic of Asia". Many countries have gone through name changes - Persia/Iran, Ceylon/Sri Lanka, Burma/Myanmar etc. So there is precedent already there.

Then we can claim the entire heritage of Asia. from Turkey to Japan, from China to India, from Syria/Palestine to Malaysia. Everything and anything will be ours. Anybody saying otherside will get the retort "yeh but we are Asians and that existed before your stupid country".

What say you .... ha ha ha?

 

[Pakistani E]

This rape, invasion, plunder is a farcical argument put forward repeatedly by Indians. No people on earth over the last 5,000 years has been free from invasions, rapes and plunder. Hell ask the Indian's how many Islamic raiders came and took over their land (Indians) and enslaved them? The way point fingers at us is as if they managed to beat every invader came to India in the last 5,000 years. Have they forgotten about the British? Have the Indian's forgotten how Britain starved them in millions as late as 1943?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/2010/10/how_churchill_starved_india.html


What religion we are. what language we speak. Who are ancestors are is our business. I take exception to some guy in Chennai, Mumbai or Kolkatta lecturing me about Taxila. Whatever the case maybe it is definitely non of their business but the natives of that area.

And no people from 5,000 years have kept exactly the same religion, same genetics, same culture, same food habits, same language. Not the Egyptians, not the Italians etc ec.


Truth be told it about the name only. Just because they are called "India" they think they own the entire sub-continent. I mean does Romania go around claiming Roman Empire and lecture Italians that they are a new state that did not exist before 1880s? Ancient Rome used feed Christians to the lions. Today irony of ironies Rome is home of the Catholic Church and most Italians are proud Christians. I would to see Indians telling Indians that they have nothing to do with the gloriuos heritage of their land because they are called "Italians" today and are Christians - a Middle Eastern Semite religion.

I think we need to pull the rug underneath the Ganga Indians. How about we change name of Pakistan to "Asia". So it should be styled "Islamic Republic of Asia". Many countries have gone through name changes - Persia/Iran, Ceylon/Sri Lanka, Burma/Myanmar etc. So there is precedent already there.

Then we can claim the entire heritage of Asia. from Turkey to Japan, from China to India, from Syria/Palestine to Malaysia. Everything and anything will be ours. Anybody saying otherside will get the retort "yeh but we are Asians and that existed before your stupid country".

What say you .... ha ha ha?

Agreed as always. I really do wish there is a serious look at changing the name of the country to the Indus Republic of Pakistan or something similar. I care little for the Indians posting comments all over the internet trying to tell me what I am or not. What I posted yesterday about the study on Awans being descended from the original inhabitants of the Indus Valley is just a tip of the iceberg. I am in contact with the author of that study, they are preparing an even bigger study to incorporate all Hindko and related people, and they are very certain that these people are again, the true descendants of the people of the Indus Valley.

I hope to gather all this data and may choose to publish a book on the great history of this nation going back thousands of years, not just when a foreign rule came over. We've wasted too much time already being fed lies from one side who's within us and want us to disown our heritage and the other who want to claim it for their own.

 

[illusion8]

The title itself got me laughing..didn't bother reading the op. BS doesn't fly much.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

choose to publish a book on the great history of this nation

Fantastic stuff. I will be first in line to buy this book. You know what annoys me most? If Sikhs on our border want to claim some of the Indus heritage - fine. You can't let a line exclude people's heritage. However please tell me what does rest of India have to do with us? A Indian Bengali from Kolkata, a Odishan, a Tamil, a Kannada, a Maratha, a Malayalam, a Assamse. All these peoples who live in distant land and had limited intereaction with us want to claim Indus heritage. In European terms this would be like Bulgarians, Slovakians, Moldavians, Romanians, Albanians, Latvians claiming British or French heritage. And vast majority of Indian - 94% fall in this category.

BS doesn't fly much

You would know that, up close and personal. BS ends up in the Ganga. Open defecation capital of the world - India.

 

[Pakistani E]

You know what annoys me most? If Sikhs on our border want to claim some of the Indus heritage - fine. You can't let a line exclude people's heritage. However please tell me what does rest of India have to do with us? A Indian Bengali from Kolkata, a Odishan, a Tamil, a Kannada, a Maratha, a Malayalam, a Assamse. All these peoples who live in distant land and had limited intereaction with us want to claim Indus heritage. In European terms this would be like Bulgarians, Slovakians, Moldavians, Romanians, Albanians, Latvians claiming British or French heritage. And vast majority of Indian - 94% fall in this category.

This is something that I also find strange, even on this forum, if you notice the ones that scream the most about IVC as theirs tend to be from Central, South or East India. The people that have the least to do with us, always seem to be the ones who are crazy about appropriating what our ancestors built. I don't know if it's some sort of inferior complex perhaps, I go out of my way to show them respect even when they pass snarky remarks about Pakistanis being foreign rapists etc, but they should go and dig up their own ancient cities and I will congratulate them, I won't say it belongs to me.

The North-west Indians, especially the Punjabis, are the kin of east Pakistanis. And I've never had any issues with them claiming the legacy of IVC. I know Punjabi Sikh and Hindus from India personally in the U.K, the feelings of kinship and respect is mutual. No disrespect to other Indians, but they should concentrate on their ancestors.

 

[illusion8]

Fantastic stuff. I will be first in line to buy this book. You know what annoys me most? If Sikhs on our border want to claim some of the Indus heritage - fine. You can't let a line exclude people's heritage. However please tell me what does rest of India have to do with us? A Indian Bengali from Kolkata, a Odishan, a Tamil, a Kannada, a Maratha, a Malayalam, a Assamse. All these peoples who live in distant land and had limited intereaction with us want to claim Indus heritage. In European terms this would be like Bulgarians, Slovakians, Moldavians, Romanians, Albanians, Latvians claiming British or French heritage. And vast majority of Indian - 94% fall in this category.

You would know that, up close and personal. BS ends up in the Ganga. Open defecation capital of the world - India.

You are the PDF's captain of bull sh!t, you wouldnt last long in the real world, enjoy your fantasies in PDF.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

f you notice the ones that scream the most about IVC as theirs tend to be from Central, South or East India.

This is remarkable given that if South Asia is imposed on Europe this [below] is what it looks like. South Indians are like Tunisian Arabs trying to leech off British heritage. Indian Bengalis are like Romanian/Moldavians trying to leech British heritage. Can you imagine they make a dig in London and a guy in Russia starts getting excited and begins lecturing the English guy about what is and what is not his heritage. Seriously? Just again look at the South Asia/ Europe superimposed map which is to scale.

http://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~....MTM4MDUwOTY)NA~!BD*NTcxMjE3MQ.MTMxNjczMjA)NQ

 

[Awi]

Hara (Shiva) + Appa (Father) = Harappa (People of Shiva)

You know that Harappa is not the real name of that city right? It was named Harappa because when it was discovered, the closest city name was Harappa hence it was named Harappa.

Quote from Wiki regarding naming standards of archeological sites:

Per archaeological convention of naming a previously unknown civilization by its first excavated site, the Indus Valley Civilization is also called the Harappan Civilization

Source

Can you Indians, please, stop farting?

 

[StraightShooter]

the closest city name was Harappa hence it was named Harappa.

So could someone tell me what is the meaning of the name Harappa in Punjabi? Harappa is south indian name. Even today people name themselves as appa in south India

For example :

Nanjunda (one who drank poison) + Appa (Father) = Nanjundappa (A name given to lord Shiva)

Basava (Nandi the Bull - Vahana of lord Shiva) + Appa (Father) = Basavappa (Lord Shiva)

Sidda (Master of Yoga ) + Appa (Father) = Siddappa (Lord Shiva)

Similarly

Hara (Shiva) + Appa (Father) = Harappa (Lord Shiva)

As per western indologists, Vedic period (1st Yuga - Satya Yuga) which predated Mahabharata (2nd yuga - Dvapara Yuga) and Ramayana (3rd Yuga - Treta Yuga) was around 1300 BCE while Harappa was dated from 3300 BCE - 1300 BCE.

Now what is funny is the below seal from Harappa has lord Rama who should have lived after the Vedic age as per their time line.

Based on the astronomical positions of celestial bodies (DNA of timeline) as described in Ramayana and Mahabharata it has been concluded that Mahabharata was around ~5000 BCE and Ramayana was around ~10000 BCE.

 

[Pakistani E]

This is remarkable given that if South Asia is imposed on Europe this [below] is what it looks like. South Indians are like Tunisian Arabs trying to leech off British heritage. Indian Bengalis are like Romanian/Moldavians trying to leech British heritage. Can you imagine they make a dig in London and a guy in Russia starts getting excited and begins lecturing the English guy about what is and what is not his heritage. Seriously? Just again look at the South Asia/ Europe superimposed map which is to scale.

http://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~....MTM4MDUwOTY)NA~!BD*NTcxMjE3MQ.MTMxNjczMjA)NQ

Carrying on from the point you are making, I was reading a few pages back and I saw one of the respected Indian members bring up several different civillisations, including Egypt and said that modern state of Egypt had the legacy of the Ancient Egyptian civillisation with them, and in the same breath went to mention how the Indus Valley is for India.

What one wonders is what criteria was used to ascribe the ancient Egyptian civillisation to the modern state of Egypt. I mean do they share the same religion? Nope. The same culture? Nope. The same language? Nope. The same traditions? Nope. The same customs? Nope. The same ideals? Nope. And one could even argue, not even the same genetics on the whole, yet this Indian member had no hesitation in making this link. Yet the very same Indians constantly tell us, that because modern day Pakistanis have a different religion etc, so they cannot claim the legacy of IVC.

How does one describe this hypocrisy? I would very much like to know what criteria was used to correlate Ancient and Modern Egypt with, and what criteria was used for IVC and India. Was the same criteria used for both? If yes, what is it? And if not, then why this double standards?

 

[wiseone2]

Carrying on from the point you are making, I was reading a few pages back and I saw one of the respected Indian members bring up several different civillisations, including Egypt and said that modern state of Egypt had the legacy of the Ancient Egyptian civillisation with them, and in the same breath went to mention how the Indus Valley is for India.

What one wonders is what criteria was used to ascribe the ancient Egyptian civillisation to the modern state of Egypt. I mean do they share the same religion? Nope. The same culture? Nope. The same language? Nope. The same traditions? Nope. The same customs? Nope. The same ideals? Nope. And one could even argue, not even the same genetics on the whole, yet this Indian member had no hesitation in making this link. Yet the very same Indians constantly tell us, that because modern day Pakistanis have a different religion etc, so they cannot claim the legacy of IVC.

How does one describe this hypocrisy? I would very much like to know what criteria was used to correlate Ancient and Modern Egypt with, and what criteria was used for IVC and India. Was the same criteria used for both? If yes, what is it? And if not, then why this double standards?

I have no problem with Pakistan claiming the IVC as their own. If it is on a geographical basis how come you do not own any of the kings/peoples who ruled Pakistan after that ?

Is Ranjit Singh taught about and protrayed favorably in Pakistani history books ? If not for Ranjit Singh Peshwar would be part of Afghanistan

 

[Pakistani E]

I have no problem with Pakistan claiming the IVC as their own. If it is on a geographical basis how come you do not own any of the kings/peoples who ruled Pakistan after that ?

Is Ranjit Singh taught about and protrayed favorably in Pakistani history books ? If not for Ranjit Singh Peshwar would be part of Afghanistan

Read my post #112, and you will see that this isn't just about geographical links. As for Ranjit Singh, I think there should be more taught about him, but you need to understand that, just like the Right wing Indians who want to forget all about other religious rulers of India, the same way a lot of people want to forget the non Muslim rulers of what is now parts of Pakistan.

I agree that more Sikh history should be incorporated than what it is, even I will be honest and say I learnt more about the Sikh empire from tribal history than in school, since the Awans didn't take too kindly to becoming subjects of the Sikhs. I remember one incident in particular, where in an area where the Sikhs invaded, the Awans put up such fierce resistance that after the Sikhs won the battle, they proceeded to massacre all men and took the women and children and slaves.

These incidents will of course tend to make some of us a little bit more hesitant in teaching these things, but never the less, I have said this before, the history of this land, both good and bad, is ours and should be taught to every Pakistani.