From Harappa to Pakistan - 4,000 Year Journey

[Pakistani E]

congrats !

generally awans i know here claims that awans were ancient Afghan tribe that migrated to punjab in Medieval period. as your homeland is closer to KPK/Afghanistan.

That's because there are Awans still present in South east Afghanistan, as well as KPK and Punjab. The claim of origin doesn't have to be incorrect as South east Afghanistan was arguably part of the same cultural sphere of influence as most of IVC and I believe there is an archaeological IVC site in South Afghanistan.

No I completely get it.
But any discussion has to be made through rational and scientific analysis.
For one to be great, you don't need to show others down or in bad light. And that is the problem with the way material is presented here on PDF.

Just to reiterate:
My argument was that without DNA links to the Harappans, direct ancestry cannot be drawn. In which case, the history belongs to the land, not the people. Though some here were claiming so simply based on current geography. Which is why I gave the example of Constantinople.

No one in this thread presented the study you did, but instead went on tangents of race, color, religion, racial epithets to prove their point.
I'm glad you at least took the effort to dig this up.
You should be proud of your people!

And to end, we need more people like you in Pakistan! What Pakistanis don't realize is that its much easier to make compromises with friends than with enemies.
So the friendlier we get and understand each other, the more chances of solving our issues.
Keep it up Sher!

The other Pakistanis I believe are reacting to decades of aggressive campaign of ownership being waged by some Indians over the legacy of IVC. Barring the racial undertones, you shouldn't be discouraged by them, the more Pakistanis that claim affinity with IVC, the less we are likely to be influenced by certain other countries.

Nations share histories with their neighbours, I have no issue if Indians claim the legacy of IVC, as long as we don't get offensive comments like Pakistanis being descendants of foreign rapists etc that I have become accustomed to from Indians online.

 

[Jaanbaz]

@Kaptaan @lastofthepatriots @django @Kambojaric

Have you seen this:

"This investigation is based on measurement of maximum mesiodistal lengths and buccolingual breadths of all permanent teeth, except third molars, and assessment of dental morphology variations scored in accordance with the Arizona State University Dental Morphology System in a sample of 176 Awan young adults. These data were contrasted with 21 samples of prehistoric and living individuals from Pakistan, peninsular India, Central Asia, and the Iranian Plateau. Patterns of intersample differences were examined with neighbor-joining cluster analysis and principal coordinates analysis.

Results obtained from odontometric and dental morphology analyses are highly congruent. In both cases, Awans are identified as possessing closest affinities to prehistoric inhabitants of the Indus Valley, with more distant affinities to living ethnic groups from the Hindu Kush highlands and inhabitants of peninsular India. Awans share little to no affinities to prehistoric inhabitants of Central Asia. Such results suggest that the living Awans of Mansehra District most likely represent the descendants of indigenous populations of the Indus Valley of Pakistan, and provide no support for claims of Central Asian or peninsular Indian origins."

http://meeting.physanth.org/program...ndia-a-dental-morphometric-investigation.html

I As an Awan claim IVC as my civilisation, piss of Indians.

 

[Peshwa]

The other Pakistanis I believe are reacting to decades of aggressive campaign of ownership being waged by some Indians over the legacy of IVC. Barring the racial undertones, you shouldn't be discouraged by them, the more Pakistanis that claim affinity with IVC, the less we are likely to be influenced by certain other countries.

Nations share histories with their neighbours, I have no issue if Indians claim the legacy of IVC, as long as we don't get offensive comments like Pakistanis being descendants of foreign rapists etc that I have become accustomed to from Indians online.

I mean one would have to take these forums and yourself real seriously to actually be offended by some of the ridiculous shit that gets posted in the garb of intellectual discussion here..lol

See I grew up with Pakistanis, so I know that many of the dumb fucks here pretending to act macho and holier than thou are but simple posers. Indians and Pakistanis are cut from the same cloth! We just think that there is a massive chasm between "white and off-white" when the world doesn't give two shits.
We focus and highlight our differences, instead of celebrating our similarities....at least on the web. Sad it has to be this way.

 

[Loft38]

Indians and Pakistanis are cut from the same cloth!

The only similarities we have with Pakistanis is that we look same (and bearing a brunt of it), ideologically we are poles apart. How many suicide bombers has India produced bdw?

 

[Hassan Guy]

Indians and Pakistanis are cut from the same cloth!

But that doesn't mean India can claim all of south asias history, and say Pakistan jut popped out of nowhere.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Indians and Pakistanis are cut from the same cloth!

In case you missed out on this but all humans are cut from te same cloth. So go easy with the "me you same bull".

South Afghanistan.

Mundigak and even some in Uzbekistan. With pre-Indus sites in Iran like Shahr-e-Sokhta.

The other Pakistanis I believe are reacting to decades of aggressive campaign of ownership being waged by some Indians over the legacy of IVC.

Very accurate observation [reacting]. Even if it is harsh.

 

[Peshwa]

The only similarities we have with Pakistanis is that we look same (and bearing a brunt of it), ideologically we are poles apart. How many suicide bombers has India produced bdw?

Please let's not go down that path.
Not all Pakistanis and evil and not all Indians are saints.
I can't rationally sit here and paint an entire community with the same brush.
Don't let the comments and hate on PDF fool you.

I stand by my statement.

 

[Mamluk]

In case you missed out on this but all humans are cut from te same cloth. So go easy with the "me you same bull".

Even that's not true. Humans have divergent origins ---- for example Caucasians and North-East Asians have Neanderthal genes, others have less or none at all (then there's genes from other hominids).

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Look I may I reacted too harshly and allowed myself to sink to level not appropriate with my status in these forums but please look at the thread title. It says ""Harappa to Pakistan - 4,000 year journey". It's very simple. The thread is a line of events placed on a timeline placed in Pakistan that go back to Harappa 4,000 years ago. It's like if you stood in Harappa and the land could talk the story it would have to tell us all the way to 2017.

At no point in this timeline does the story jump to Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkatta or whatever in India. So I can't understand why the hell people from India are jumping up about. Honestly I can't. I don't start pulling my dikk out the moment a Indian mentions Chola Empire, Marathas or Vijanagar etc. I don't associate myself with those cultures.

So what gives with people from India jumping in when the story starts at Harappa, Indus Basin 2,000 BCE and ends in Harappa, Pakistan 2017?

 

[Peshwa]

In case you missed out on this but all humans are cut from te same cloth. So go easy with the "me you same bull".
.

This coming from a guy that habitually refers to Africans as "niggers"
You're right, you're nothing like the Pakistanis I grew up with or the decent Indians, because they are respectable human beings with a liberal mindset.

You must grossly overestimate your worth when you think I was referring to you.

But that doesn't mean India can claim all of south asias history, and say Pakistan jut popped out of nowhere.

Do any of my comments indicate I said anything of that nature?
I've always maintained South Asia has a shared history. But that's too much for some of you on PDF where you want to monopolize history, exactly what you are accusing me of!
I'll challenge you to show me otherwise.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

That's because there are Awans still present in South east Afghanistan, as well as KPK and Punjab. The claim of origin doesn't have to be incorrect as South east Afghanistan was arguably part of the same cultural sphere of influence as most of IVC and I believe there is an archaeological IVC site in South Afghanistan.



The other Pakistanis I believe are reacting to decades of aggressive campaign of ownership being waged by some Indians over the legacy of IVC. Barring the racial undertones, you shouldn't be discouraged by them, the more Pakistanis that claim affinity with IVC, the less we are likely to be influenced by certain other countries.

Nations share histories with their neighbours, I have no issue if Indians claim the legacy of IVC, as long as we don't get offensive comments like Pakistanis being descendants of foreign rapists etc that I have become accustomed to from Indians online.

Both Indians and ex Indians (aka Pakistanis and Bangladeshis) were subjected to rape, pillage and plunder.
No Indian historian claims South Asian history as Indian intellectual property. Only IR Pakistan has distanced herself from this shared history on her own accord. A few secularists/racists here contradict the official (Pak) policy.
Nobody is stopping IR Pakistan from exploring and identifying new IVSC sites for instance. India has uncovered hundreds of such settlements since independence.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Kaptaan @lastofthepatriots @django @Kambojaric

Have you seen this:

"This investigation is based on measurement of maximum mesiodistal lengths and buccolingual breadths of all permanent teeth, except third molars, and assessment of dental morphology variations scored in accordance with the Arizona State University Dental Morphology System in a sample of 176 Awan young adults. These data were contrasted with 21 samples of prehistoric and living individuals from Pakistan, peninsular India, Central Asia, and the Iranian Plateau. Patterns of intersample differences were examined with neighbor-joining cluster analysis and principal coordinates analysis.

Results obtained from odontometric and dental morphology analyses are highly congruent. In both cases, Awans are identified as possessing closest affinities to prehistoric inhabitants of the Indus Valley, with more distant affinities to living ethnic groups from the Hindu Kush highlands and inhabitants of peninsular India. Awans share little to no affinities to prehistoric inhabitants of Central Asia. Such results suggest that the living Awans of Mansehra District most likely represent the descendants of indigenous populations of the Indus Valley of Pakistan, and provide no support for claims of Central Asian or peninsular Indian origins."

http://meeting.physanth.org/program...ndia-a-dental-morphometric-investigation.html

Interesting. Thanks for that. I did not know this.

 

[Pakistani E]

Both Indians and ex Indians (aka Pakistanis and Bangladeshis) were subjected to rape, pillage and plunder.
No Indian historian claims South Asian history as Indian intellectual property. Only IR Pakistan has distanced herself from this shared history on her own accord. A few secularists/racists here contradict the official (Pak) policy.
Nobody is stopping IR Pakistan from exploring and identifying new IVSC sites for instance. India has uncovered hundreds of such settlements since independence.

There are no people on earth who have not faced rape, pillage and plunder. You are supposedly a Kashmiri Pandit, do you want me to tell you what happen to your people in Kashmir?

What the official Pakistan policy is none of your business. Pakistanis, regardless of religion, are the people of this land. The history, both good and bad, belongs to us. If 100 years down the line, Pakistanis choose to call themselves Klingons, it will not change their history or ancestry. Hindki, Hindokawan, Sindhu etc are all names that were used to describe my people/land by others. Pakistan is a name we chose for ourselves and we are happy with it.

You should perhaps stop using the name of our river as your country's name. It won't make you anymore inheritors of the Indus Valley than me. You should choose something more localized to your land, only the north west people of the republic of "India" can in theory use that name.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The only similarities we have with Pakistanis is that we look same (and bearing a brunt of it), ideologically we are poles apart. How many suicide bombers has India produced bdw?

That's about as accurate as your inability to provide evidence of indians having a dna or genetic connection to the members of the Harappan civilsation . SOME Pakistanis may look indian just as SOME Pakistanis look Middle Eastern. Either way, both are neither here nor there and are irrelevant. Not only are we poles apart in terms of beliefs and way of life but physically too.

 

[The Sandman]

HAHAHAHAHAHA Why not use the word Ganagdeshis... let me tell you what real conquering is, when pioneers from the Indus region (present day Pakistan) sometime during the mid iron age made their way down to the thick forests of the Ganga region (present day India), cut down those thick forests with sharp axes thanks to their knowledge of metallurgy and "DOMESTICATED" the "FERAL", "PRIMITIVE", naked, banana eating and tarantula munching primitive forest ancestors of modern day Gangadwellers, instead of showing gratitude for gifting you knowledge of Rig Veda you folks are threatening to drink tea in Lahore Gymkhana (dream on)After all our ancestors did for you folks, domesticating the most undomesticated feral people one can imagine, this is how you repay us????Kulbuhushan, BLA....APS.Damn they are a ungrateful bunch
@Kaptaan @The Sandman @Zibago @Tesky @Path-Finder

Not worth it bro not worth it leave it.