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French Navy Plans To Dominate Above, On and Below the Seas

Mongolia had one incredible 200 yr stretch in their history in the middle ages.Nothing before-nothing since.I gave an example of all of france's major wars from ancient to modern age.Try to comprehend the difference.

You did not get my point. What France did or did not do 1000 years ago with horses and swords has little relevance today. Where as their performance in WW2 ( first iteration of warfare comprising combined arms ) and their adventure in Vietnam speaks volumes about their grasp of modern warfare.

Oh the Pakistanis are very good a fighting
They manged to set a 'Surrender, record in 1971 war 70,000 men which remainsunbroken to this date

26/11 proved India's martial skills. Enough said.
 
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You did not get my point. What France did or did not do 1000 years ago with horses and swords has little relevance today. Where as their performance in WW2 ( war comprising combined arms ) and their adventure in Vietnam speaks volumes about their grasp of modern warfare.

I'm going to support @AUSTERLITZ in this debate. Even events of 40-50 years ago have little relevance. Compare the Russian war in Afghanistan to their wars in Chechnya... the lessons and tactics are completely different. Even compare the start with the mid-point of the Soviet War in Afghanistan to see a shift in battlefield tactics and strategy. The US involvement in WWII, Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq all have very little in common. Even between the first and second Gulf Wars, warfare changed. The US no longer fights large-scale conventional battles, similar to what was fought in WWII, it fights small-scale fights, but brings overwhelming firepower to bear.

The French performance in their recent conflicts goes a long war to proving that these guys are tough and effective fighters. Maybe in WWII the French would have ran, but not any more. Vietnam is hardly modern warfare at this point, though it was the beginning of that era (in the US, not the French Vietnam intervention).

You simply cannot compare the human wave attacks of the Korean War with the asymmetric fights in Iraq and Afghanistan. Warfare changes too much, even in relatively short periods as no threats are the same and adaptability is a must. If you don't adapt to changing times, you end up like the Russians during the First Chechen War, they learned from this experience and the Second Chechen War went a lot different.

The source is garbage, my apologies, but the title is the truth:

The 5 Most Statistically Full of Shit National Stereotypes | Cracked.com

Also, the French have a lot of experience and a lot of success in conflict:

French Military Victories

Today the French may run, but it's towards a fight not away from one.

@Gabriel92 - he could do a better job dispelling the myths then I can.
 
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You simply cannot compare the human wave attacks of the Korean War with the asymmetric fights in Iraq and Afghanistan.

That is exactly my point. I don't question France's ability to perform in COIN operations. Asymmetric warfare is very different from a war between adversaries on a more or less equal footing. You cannot use one to judge the other. I was speaking solely about modern warfare, that is a war involving the full spectrum of forces.
 
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You did not get my point. What France did or did not do 1000 years ago with horses and swords has little relevance today. Where as their performance in WW2 ( first iteration of warfare comprising combined arms ) and their adventure in Vietnam speaks volumes about their grasp of modern warfare.



26/11 proved India's martial skills. Enough said.

Comparing a Full fledged war to a hostage situation
Lol
 
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Combining EU's GDP like that is misleading. Lets not forget that EU is a very loose group of different countries. And the distribution of wealth is very uneven.Combining poorer European countries GDP with the likes of Germany gives the impression that "they are not poor" whereas they actually are. So spending 3-4% on defence might be bearable for some countries, its outright economic suicide for the others.

You are right about their military doctrine though, and i think its the smart choice. Reminds me of an annoyed American Defence secretary who complained about NATO's military capabilities just before retiring a few days later.

The problem with EU was, they try to create a battlegroup type brigade while putting the defence under the unified command. Which would mean the EU, not the respective country to finance the operation. Hence if we are to discuss the current defence situation of EU, we need to think EU as a whole, instead of just 28 countries.

Indeed if you are trying to compare the GDP of Greece or Spain to the big 3 (Britain/French/Germany) it would not be comparable, however, with a tiny amount of input of Greece, you would be supplemented with a larger contribution of like Italy or France for their respective battlegroup. In the end, it would be the same,, it would have been the bigger country drag on the smaller country.

EU as a whole would not gather a large force, like the American or even China, but the problem with EU is they are not poor in general, yet they refused to spend on defence is something people up there should rethink about. They think as an unified command, but they do it individually, that's why I said nobody are going to take the first step unless EU itself started to take the defence situation seriously, either group it together, or let them have their own, otherwise it would be like the current situation now, which is going nowhere.

While i generally agree with what you've said, i also think that if you in some theory (more like fantasy) put all the major assets of EU militaries together and orientate them towards a single objective, that would be quite a formidable force. Once you start adding the numbers up it doesn't look that weak at all.
Although under a condition, if it is in reality like it is on paper, not like for example the recent articles from Germany that were speculating only 4 Typhoons were operational iirc.

What you are saying is what they should do, however, the reality is not quite the same.

For example, if Russia were to invade EU tomorrow, the EU Battle-group would and could only fed into the fight piecemeal, problem with geological location, readiness time and mobilisation time are varied from different battlegroup. You would be most likely to feed Nordic and Balken Battlegroup into battle first, that's some 4,000 soldiers, then wait for the larger battlegroup to mobilise, it would take 4 days to a week for larger battlegroup (Such as French/Germany Battlegroup) to deploy, meanwhile the closer battlegroup and local defence force would be the only one that stopping the enemy invasion.

If EU were to deploy their troop with their Unified Command, they should also position their troop accordingly, which would mean a heavier present to the East and less dense position to the west. Where other problem such as training and integration as well as logistic now still fall on local member to take care of, yes, if you put all EU forces together , it would be a force to reckon with, however, currently it's not the case....

Don't know if you understand what I meant....
 
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What you are saying is what they should do, however, the reality is not quite the same.

For example, if Russia were to invade EU tomorrow, the EU Battle-group would and could only fed into the fight piecemeal, problem with geological location, readiness time and mobilisation time are varied from different battlegroup. You would be most likely to feed Nordic and Balken Battlegroup into battle first, that's some 4,000 soldiers, then wait for the larger battlegroup to mobilise, it would take 4 days to a week for larger battlegroup (Such as French/Germany Battlegroup) to deploy, meanwhile the closer battlegroup and local defence force would be the only one that stopping the enemy invasion.

Surely, Russians are not capable of such a maskirovka that would catch everyone completely unprepared. Here we are talking only about what has been contracted to this battlegroup concept, then there are still national militaries, with their own arrangements on what needs to be done in such an event. I would expect the Poles having a better grasp of what can happen to them then let's say they had in 1939.


If EU were to deploy their troop with their Unified Command, they should also position their troop accordingly, which would mean a heavier present to the East and less dense position to the west. Where other problem such as training and integration as well as logistic now still fall on local member to take care of, yes, if you put all EU forces together , it would be a force to reckon with, however, currently it's not the case....

Don't know if you understand what I meant....

Ofc i understand what you mean. Political will is lacking, because people are slow to realize politicians' wishes. And the collective panacea of how there won't be no war in Europe anymore has to wear off in order for the populace to start accepting higher expenses.

In any case, i found a T-55 for 36.000€ and a Mi-24 for 5 mill.€ in the ad section of the local magazine that deals with defense, weapons and similar topics. Going to the ATM! For my personal security, i wont rely on any battlegroups or any lacking political will! :smokin:

Prikaži oglas | Spletni portal Obramba.com

Prikaži oglas | Spletni portal Obramba.com
 
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nope you have over 90% debt and no resources or reserves

And ?
Some countries have +100% debt and they aren't like somalia.
Yep we are richer,stop with your PPP bla bla bla,GDP nominal is more important. :)
 
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