French JF-17 Deal Could Anger India

[LCA Tejas]

U said LCA avionics and stuff are indeginous
then
wats ths?
Your Kaveri engine
In September 2008, it was announced that the Kaveri would not be ready in time for the Tejas, and that an in-production powerplant would have to be selected.[29] The ADA plans to issue a request for proposal (RFP) for a more powerful engine in the 95 to 100 kilonewton (kN) (21,000–23,000 lbf) range. The contenders are likely to be the Eurojet EJ200 and the General Electric F414. The Eurojet EJ200 propulsion offer has thrust-vectoring. The single crystal turbine blade technology, originally denied to Indian scientists, has also been offered to India by Eurojet via the EJ200 engine.[30]

Either you must be blind or you refuced to read what I wrote, I already said that Kaveri is being helped by france.....

LCA radar and software
Due to delay in development of MMR, government have come out with the collaboration with IAI for development of Radar the sensor for the new radar is supposed to be EL/M-2052 AESA from Elta and the remaining item and software will be combination of MMR and IAI developed products

Again You proved your selective reading sense, I already said Radars Are not ours aswell....

LCA HUD

The CSIO-developed HUD, Elbit-furnished DASH helmet-mounted display and sight (HMDS), and hands-on-throttle-and-stick

If um not wrong ELBIT is an israeli company

NOP, you are wrong..
The Head-up-Display of the LCA is a unit developed by the state-owned CSIO, Chandigarh. The HUD is claimed to be superior to similar systems in the international market. According to Mr. CV M L Narasimham, head of CSIO's Applied Optics division, compared to Israel's HUD, the CSIO equipment is noiseless, silent, and offers a better field of view. It is compact, reliable, non-reflective and designed for high-performance aircraft. It was first put on the PV-2 version of the LCA.

LCA EW suite

In the interim, the Indian Defence Ministry has revealed that an unspecified number of EW suites have been purchased from Israel's Elisra for the LCA

Elisra again an israeli company

The LCA's EW suite is being developed by the Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) — which was known as the Advanced Systems Integration and Evaluation Organisation (ASIEO) until June 2001 — with support from the Defence Electronics Research Laboratory (DLRL). This EW suite, known as "Mayavi" (Sanskrit: Illusionist), includes a radar warning receiver (RWR), self-protection jammer, laser warning system, missile approach warning system, and chaff/flare dispenser. In the interim, the Indian Defence Ministry has revealed that an unspecified number of EW suites have been purchased from Israel's Elisra for the LCA prototypes... LCA has Purchased Israeld Elisra For LCA prototypes, But not sure which will go in, so wait untill u jump the gun.

LCA ejection seat

Although two-seat variants of the LCA are planned, the examples built to date are crewed by a single pilot on a Martin-Baker zero-zero ejection seat

Mrtin Baker is a britsh company

Ejection seats are not at a ll a matter of concern buddy.... There is noting Cutting Edge about it, buy the best.

Missiles and Armaments all from russia

Oh yeah, whats Astra BVRM to you then?

but still LCA is an indeginous fighter

Indeed it is.....

 

[jagjitnatt]

U said LCA avionics and stuff are indeginous
then
wats ths?
Your Kaveri engine
In September 2008, it was announced that the Kaveri would not be ready in time for the Tejas, and that an in-production powerplant would have to be selected.[29] The ADA plans to issue a request for proposal (RFP) for a more powerful engine in the 95 to 100 kilonewton (kN) (21,000–23,000 lbf) range. The contenders are likely to be the Eurojet EJ200 and the General Electric F414. The Eurojet EJ200 propulsion offer has thrust-vectoring. The single crystal turbine blade technology, originally denied to Indian scientists, has also been offered to India by Eurojet via the EJ200 engine.[30]

LCA radar and software
Due to delay in development of MMR, government have come out with the collaboration with IAI for development of Radar the sensor for the new radar is supposed to be EL/M-2052 AESA from Elta and the remaining item and software will be combination of MMR and IAI developed products

LCA HUD

The CSIO-developed HUD, Elbit-furnished DASH helmet-mounted display and sight (HMDS), and hands-on-throttle-and-stick

If um not wrong ELBIT is an israeli company

LCA EW suite

In the interim, the Indian Defence Ministry has revealed that an unspecified number of EW suites have been purchased from Israel's Elisra for the LCA

Elisra again an israeli company

LCA ejection seat

Although two-seat variants of the LCA are planned, the examples built to date are crewed by a single pilot on a Martin-Baker zero-zero ejection seat

Mrtin Baker is a britsh company

LCA MFD

the multi-function displays (MFDs) by Sextant (France)

Missiles and Armaments all from russia


but still LCA is an indeginous fighter

You are taking this beyond saneness. When an aircraft is developed, it requires a million things, not all are developed by the same company. Heck, you'll come up with a statement, hey the iron ore is refined by that company and its used in Tejas, its not indigenous.

Look, the aircraft was designed by Indians, developed by Indians, although every project requires some help from specialists, but more than 70% of the plane is indigenous and in future when the engine and radar gets developed, things will get even better.

As you listed the above things, so you think these are the only things that make up the plane? From the tiniest screw on the landing gear, to the algorithms driving the EW Suite, there are millions of things. Even a few thousand things that we co-developed/bought doesn't make it a non-indigenous project. And remember, at the end of the day, we pay 100% of the development and manufacturing costs.

So it is indigenous.

 

[LCA Tejas]

Let me put the whole avionics list of LCA tejas....

Following are the important avionics components:

Mission Computer (MC): MC performs the central processing functions apart from performing as Bus Controller and is the central core of the Avionics system. The hardware architecture is based on a dual 80386 based computer with dual port RAM for interprocessor communication. There are three dual redundant communication channels meeting with MIL-STD-1553B data bus specifications. The hardware unit development was done by ASIEO, Bangalore and software design & development by ADA.

HUD: The Head-up-Display of the LCA is a unit developed by the state-owned CSIO, Chandigarh. The HUD is claimed to be superior to similar systems in the international market. According to Mr. CV M L Narasimham, head of CSIO's Applied Optics division, compared to Israel's HUD, the CSIO equipment is noiseless, silent, and offers a better field of view. It is compact, reliable, non-reflective and designed for high-performance aircraft. It was first put on the PV-2 version of the LCA.


Control & Coding Unit (CCU): In the normal mode, CCU provides real time I/O access which are essentially pilot's controls and power on controls for certain equipment. In the reversionary mode, when MC fails, CCU performs the central processing functions of MC. The CCU also generates voice warning signals. The main processor is Intel 80386 microprocessor. The hardware is developed by RCI, Hyderabad and software by ADA
.
Display Processors (DP): DP is one of the mission critical software intensive LRUs of LCA. The DP drives two types of display surfaces viz. a monochrome Head Up display (HUD) and two colour multifunction displays (MFDs). The equipment is based on four Intel 80960 microprocessors. There are two DPs provided (one normal and one backup) in LCA. These units are developed by ADE, Bangalore.

Mission Preparation & Data Retrieval Unit (MPRU): MPRU is a data entry and retrieval unit of LCA Avionics architecture. The unit performs mission preparation and data retrieval functions. In the preparation mode, it transfers mission data prepared on Data Preparation Cartridge (DPC) with the help of ground compliment, to various Avionics equipment. In the second function, the MPRU receives data from various equipment during the Operational Flight Program (OFP) and stores data on Resident Cartridge Card (RCC). This unit is developed by LRDE, Bangalore.

USMS Electronic Units: The following processor based digital Electronics Units (EU) are used for control and monitoring, data logging for fault diagnosis and maintenance: Environment Control System Controller (ECSC), Engine and Electrical Monitoring System Electronics Unit (EEMS-EU), Digital Fuel Monitoring System Electronics Unit (DFM-EU) and Digital Hydraulics and Brake Management System Electronics Unit (DH-EU)
Changes in PV-2: The production standard cockpit has no electro mechanical standby instruments. The cockpit is dominated by three 5"x 5" AMLCD MFD's, two Smart Standby Display Units (SSDU) and the indigenous HUD. The HUD has an Up Front Control Panel (UFCP) which is a significant man machine interface (MMI) enhancement which allows the pilot to program, initialize the avionics and enter mission and system critical data through an interactive soft touch keyboard. Although the FOV of this HUD is slightly less than that of contemporary units on other aircraft of this generation it is not considered significant because the ELBIT, Israel furnished DASH helmet mounted display and sight (HMDS) will form an integral part of the avionics suite.
The four utilities system monitoring LRUs have been reduced to two dual redundant units. These units perform the control, monitoring, data logging for fault diagnosis and maintenance functions.
A HAL Korwa developed Flight data recorder will be fitted after the initial flights.
The PV2 is a much lighter aircraft and possesses advanced software technology, unlike the Test Demonstrator I, II and PV1. There is an advancement in the build standard of PV2, which is a software intensive fourth generation combat aircraft built to production standard. Besides having a high percentage of composite materials in its airframe structure, it incorporates a state-of-the-art, integrated, modular avionics system with open architecture concepts to facilitate easy hardware and software upgrades and re-usability.




MMR HYBRID : Another critical technology area tackled for indigenous development by the ADA team is the Tejas' Multi-Mode Radar (MMR). It was initially planned for the LCA to use the Ericsson Microwave Systems PS-05/A I/J-band multi-function radar, which was developed by Ericsson and Ferranti Defence Systems Integration for the Saab JAS-39 Gripen. However, after examining other radars in the early 1990s, the DRDO became confident that indigenous development was possible. HAL's Hyderabad division and the LRDE were selected to jointly lead the MMR program; it is unclear exactly when the design work was initiated, but the radar development effort began in 1997.

The DRDO's Centre for Airborne Studies (CABS) is responsible for running the test programme for the MMR. Between 1996 and 1997, CABS converted the surviving HAL/HS-748M Airborne Surveillance Post (ASP) testbed into a testbed for the avionics and radar of the LCA. Known as the 'Hack', the only major structural modification besides the removal of the rotodome assembly was the addition of the LCA's nose cone in order to accommodate the MMR.

By mid-2002, development of the MMR was reported to be experiencing major delays and cost escalations. By early 2005 only the air-to-air look-up and look-down modes two very basic modes were confirmed to have been successfully tested. In May 2006 it was revealed that the performance of several modes being tested still "fell short of expectations." As a result, the ADA was reduced to running weaponisation tests with a weapon delivery pod, which is not a primary sensor, leaving critical tests on hold. Due to delay in development of MMR, government have come out with the collaboration with IAI for development of Radar the sensor for the new radar is supposed to be EL/M-2052 AESA from Elta and the remaining item and software will be combination of MMR and IAI developed products. Varadarajan, (Director - LRDE) has said that LRDE has initiated development of active electronically scanning array radar for airborne applications. And that these radars will be integrated with Tejas light combat aircraft-Mark II by 2012-13.

EW suite:. Primary responsibility for development of the EW suite is that of the Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE), Bangalore.but recently (DARE) has entered a joint venture with israeli aircraft industry (IAI) for development of EW suite called " Mayavi " an ancient sanskrit word ,which (IAI) will intergrate it with Jsf F-35 and (DARE) in lca-tejas

 

[Taha Samad]

hurah!!! thread turned into another jf-17 vs LCA

congratulations



PS:

 

[Mani2020]

sorry Mod

back to original topic

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

im ignorant over her about deal....plz tell me the deal is done or not?
well surly French will never come under this pressure....they r independent.

secondly if India started such type of mess with France may b they also restricted for weapon sale from France just like their old friends Israel.

 

[Adwitiya]

im ignorant over her about deal....plz tell me the deal is done or not?
well surly French will never come under this pressure....they r independent.

secondly if India started such type of mess with France may b they also restricted for weapon sale from France just like their old friends Israel.

that wont be a problem for us.... because we are not short of people who are ready to sell us so if french do that it will be they who will be in loose loose situation after loosing such a huge client.

 

[sancho]

Guys, the article says nothing about India tries to pressure French not to give these techs to PAF, it says only that Indian and US opinion could be relevant!

But the more important and interesting point is, what the French are ready to provide to JF 17, because those parts that the article states seems to be out of interest for IAF anyway.
Latest news claims that MBDA offers ASRAAM as an upgrade for IAF Jaguars and Mirage 2000 fighters, these can be used even at Rafale, if it wins MMRCA and Gripen NG and EF will use it anyway. Mica EM is also not important for IAF, because most of their fighters will use R77 and Astra in future and MMRCA winners will surely go for AMRAAM, or even Meteor. Not to forget that IAF is going to put AESA radars on nearly every fighter beyond 2014/15, which makes the RC400 radar not interesting too.

The point is, as long as those countries won't offer the same arms and techs to PAF, that are on offer for IAF, there is no need for India to put pressure on anybody!

Not sure how much these French package will improve the JF 17, because it depends on how good, or bad the Chinese arms and techs are. But PAF seems not to have much trust in them, if only 50 JF will use these right?

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Guys, the article says nothing about India tries to pressure French not to give these techs to PAF, it says only that Indian and US opinion could be relevant!

But the more important and interesting point is, what the French are ready to provide to JF 17, because those parts that the article states seems to be out of interest for IAF anyway.
Latest news claims that MBDA offers ASRAAM as an upgrade for IAF Jaguars and Mirage 2000 fighters, these can be used even at Rafale, if it wins MMRCA and Gripen NG and EF will use it anyway. Mica EM is also not important for IAF, because most of their fighters will use R77 and Astra in future and MMRCA winners will surely go for AMRAAM, or even Meteor. Not to forget that IAF is going to put AESA radars on nearly every fighter beyond 2014/15, which makes the RC400 radar not interesting too.

The point is, as long as those countries won't offer the same arms and techs to PAF, that are on offer for IAF, there is no need for India to put pressure on anybody!

Not sure how much these French package will improve the JF 17, because it depends on how good, or bad the Chinese arms and techs are. But PAF seems not to have much trust in them, if only 50 JF will use these right?

leave it buddy,there r some guys over here who ever wants to discuss India in every thread whether it is related to them or not.
besides there isnt any problem with India in this deal.
calm down indians and

 

[blueoval79]

I doubt French Would like to lose a bigger deal because of smaller deal....

Considering this:
India Scrutinizes U.S. Firm for Pakistan Connection - WSJ.com
I think French company would refrain from going ahead with JF 17 Deal.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

I doubt French Would like to lose a bigger deal because of smaller deal....

Considering this:
India Scrutinizes U.S. Firm for Pakistan Connection - WSJ.com
I think French company would refrain from going ahead with JF 17 Deal.

neither France will lose Pakistan nor India b/c this story is about money.
whatever the quantity of money is,it doesn't matter.France will never like to lose a single penny for someones interest.if u guys really think that u can pressurize France by ur deals or through USA or whatever the source,is not gona work.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Well, the scenario has changed heavily as india projects delas worth $200 in next 10 years.

French gain :
Merlins
1.3 bil. upgrades

What they can loose:

$35 Billion MMRCA
$6 billion submarine deal coming up
$2 million mirage upgrades
$2 Billion Naval Fighter Competition

And this is a great stake for the French.

I guess all these are pressure tactics and French won't be losing any business in India.MMRCA is yet not been confirmed to anybody.
Avoiding mirage upgrade and wasting the submarine deal is not a good option for India herself.

 

[mean_bird]

I doubt French Would like to lose a bigger deal because of smaller deal....

Considering this:
India Scrutinizes U.S. Firm for Pakistan Connection - WSJ.com
I think French company would refrain from going ahead with JF 17 Deal.

There's a popular saying that " a bird in hand is worth two in the bush".

If you read the article, it says the deal has "full french govt. backing".

 

[sancho]

I guess all these are pressure tactics and French won't be losing any business in India.MMRCA is yet not been confirmed to anybody.
Avoiding mirage upgrade and wasting the submarine deal is not a good option for India herself.

Correct, if we had no other options, but Israel is offering M2K upgrade for half the costs and besides more French subs, there are U214 and Russian subs on offer too. So France would clearly lose more, than India, but as I said, there is no need for pressure for these techs and weapons.

 

[shanixee]

Correct, if we had no other options, but Israel is offering M2K upgrade for half the costs and besides more French subs, there are U214 and Russian subs on offer too. So France would clearly lose more, than India, but as I said, there is no need for pressure for these techs and weapons.

india never said that it will buy all of its arsenal from france...there are other bidders too.....like USA....Russia and all of them dont want big contract to go out of their hands...Russia dont want to lose india's big market as they had a big share since the independence and USA also wants to have indian market because they also wants big money and save job loses in boeing and lockhead.....so its not easy for india too...to satisfy every1...they have to see their priority 1st rather then theirs....so i dont think india will put their interest on stake just to stop france from providing their radars and avionics to pakistan....how ever french deal is not yet finalised from Pakistan end aswell..pakistan is also looking towards italian technology too...