Free speech in the UK?

[TruthSeeker]

British P.M. ‘Appalled’ by Protest Plan

By JOHN F. BURNS
Published: January 4, 2010

LONDON — A radical Islamic group planning a protest march through the streets of a town that has achieved iconic status in Britain for honoring the passing hearses of British soldiers killed in Afghanistan ran into a stiff rebuff from the British government on Monday.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown issued a statement saying he was “personally appalled” by the group’s plan to march through the streets of Wootton Bassett, a town 70 miles west of London where townspeople have lined the sidewalks since April 2007 to mourn the passing corteges of British military casualties flown home to the nearby military airbase at Lyneham.

“Wootton Bassett has a special significance for us all at this time, as it has been the scene of the repatriation of many members of our armed forces who have tragically fallen,” Mr. Brown said. “Any attempt to use this location to cause further distress and suffering to those who have lost loved ones would be abhorrent and offensive.”

Home Secretary Alan Johnson, who is responsible for the police, said in a separate statement that he would support any request from the police or local government officials to ban the march. “I find it particularly offensive that the town, which has acted in such a moving and dignified way in paying tribute to our troops who have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country should be targeted in this manner,” he said.

Plans for staging the march were laid out in a letter sent by Anjem Choudary, the leader of a group called Islam4UK, to the families of the 246 British soldiers killed in Afghanistan since the toppling of the Taliban in 2001. The organization describes itself as a “platform” for promoting the views of an extremist Islamic group, Al Muhajiroun, which praised the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States as heroes, but disbanded in 2005 in response to a British government order banning it.

A statement on the organization’s Web site said the march would be held “not in memory of the occupying and merciless British military, but rather the real war dead who have been shunned by the Western media and general public as they were and continue to be horrifically murdered in the name of democracy and freedom, the innocent Muslim men, women and children.”

Mr. Choudary, a 42-year-old lawyer and the British-born son of a Pakistani immigrant, did not say when the march would take place, but in his letter to the families of the dead soldiers, he spelled out his reasons for proposing it.

“It is worth reminding those who are still not blinded by the media propaganda that Afghanistan is not a British town near Wootton Bassett but rather Muslim land which no one has the right to occupy, with a Muslim population who do not deserve their innocent men, women and children to be killed for political mileage and for the greedy interests of the oppressive U.S. and U.K. regimes,” he said.

In Wootton Bassett, reaction to the proposed march was vehement.

“We don’t do what we do at Wootton Bassett for any political reason at all,” said Chris Wannell, a former mayor of the town. “We are a Christian country and traditional English market town who honor very much our queen and country. We obey the law and pay respects to our servicemen who protect our freedom. If this man has any decency about him he will not hold a march through Wootton Bassett.”

British P.M. ‘Appalled’ by Protest Plan - NYTimes.com

 

[TruthSeeker]

Fury over British Muslim cleric's anti-war march threat

January 4, 2010 -- Updated 1851 GMT (0251 HKT)

London, England (CNN) -- A controversial British Muslim cleric is threatening to stage a march through the town that receives the bodies of British war dead as a protest against the war in Afghanistan, drawing fury and outrage.

Anjem Choudary has accused soldiers of "murderous crimes," and said the United States and United Kingdom are seeking to "establish their own military, economic, strategic and ideological interests in the region."

British and American troops are suffering "depression" as they realize "there is no real moral or ethic (sic) reason for them to murder innocent men, women and children to fulfill their politicians (sic) agenda," the preacher says.

His organization proposes to parade empty coffins through the streets of the English town of Wootton Bassett, where the bodies of British war dead are traditionally brought when they return to the country.

Choudary has not announced a date for his planned march and local police said Saturday he had not contacted them about it, as people planning marches are required to do before staging a demonstration.


"The highway for heroes & wonderful people of WB do not deserve this march to happen," the group's home page says. "This group can march anywhere it wishes in the country but have chosen WB to cause outrage & offense. Islam4UK is an extremists (sic) Islamic group & does not represent the Muslim community in this country."

"I think most people in the Islamic community believe that those people who have adopted a perverted view of Islam to justify murder as terrorism are outside the traditional elements of what is a peaceful faith," he said.

"The vast majority of the Muslim population in this country and other countries agrees with my view on this," Brown said.

Police in Wiltshire, the county where Wootton Bassett is located, said they had the authority to control the terms and conditions of the march or even to apply to ban it if Choudary took steps towards staging it.

"If the march or procession is believed to be likely to result in serious disorder, disruption or damage, then the police can impose conditions upon the organizer," the police said in a statement. "In exceptional circumstances, the police may apply to the Local Authority for an order prohibiting such a march."

"To date there has been no contact from Islam4UK or any other group wishing to arrange such a march in Wootton Bassett," they said.

Fury over British Muslim cleric's anti-war march threat - CNN.com

 

[fhassan]

Hi

This Anjum Chuodhry fellow is an absolute C O C K , and quite frankly he is given far too much air time on British television.

On national television, he refused to condemn the London bombers, and stated "I cannot condemn fellow Muslims".

He was then asked about the innocent people killed, and commented "in shariah, only Muslims are innocent".

As I said - why isn't he in prison, and why is he always on television?

^^ There is a reason for that, but i'll refrain from spelling it out in public.

 

[TruthSeeker]

^^^^ So, I guess you are saying that, in this case, a bit of free speech stifling might not be a bad thing. Except, probably, it would be best if UK Muslims, themselves, could stifle the guy, rather than the UK government. Then, everybody wins.

 

[fhassan]

From what I hear, they plan to march through a town known for honoring dead British soldiers.

Their plan is actually quite innovative, which is to march with coffins signifying dead Afghans and Iraqis that have been killed by the actions of Britain. It's genius in my eyes - think about it. The English don't actually give a toss about dead afghans and Iraqis, they are just numbers, however they mourn their own dead most honorably.

This march may even open their eyes.

However, I deem it best to not go ahead with the march simply because the English are not as liberal as they think they are - they simply won't get it and there will be a backlash that EVERY Muslim MAY face sooner or later.

Freedom of speech in my eyes comes with responsibility; it would be irresponsible for them to go ahead with this perfectly legitimate march.

 

[All-Green]

From what I hear, they plan to march through a town known for honoring dead British soldiers.

Their plan is actually quite innovative, which is to march with coffins signifying dead Afghans and Iraqis that have been killed by the actions of Britain. It's genius in my eyes - think about it. The English don't actually give a toss about dead afghans and Iraqis, they are just numbers, however they mourn their own dead most honorably.

This march may even open their eyes.

However, I deem it best to not go ahead with the march simply because the English are not as liberal as they think they are - they simply won't get it and there will be a backlash that EVERY Muslim MAY face sooner or later.

Freedom of speech in my eyes comes with responsibility; it would be irresponsible for them to go ahead with this perfectly legitimate march.

Since this guy is an idiot (or a closet terrorist) who thinks he should defend even those Muslims who are terrorists just because they are Muslims, i think his holding a rally for the Iraqis and Afghans is also pathetic.

No doubt the loss of life is regrettable and i would support any rally to remember the huge tragedy...but such guys have their own agenda and their support is actually counterproductive and will just spread mistrust...

Such guys never ever mix with their countrymen, remain aloof and are shunned by society, their revenge is to brainwash others on the basis of hate and false perceptions and make life miserable for other Muslims as well.

They enjoy the benefits of being citizens of a developed country but entice others less fortunate to be the foot soldiers in their revenge against a country which resides them.

I have seen quite a few Muslims from UK who support the TTP against GOP, i guess this phenomena is very common in UK because unlike US where every one is welcome...UK is a relatively closed society and views Muslims with a slight mistrust...a mistrust which only increases with such people, who in turn use this to spread further hate...

Their overtly religious or noble cause is actually nothing more than a quest for personal vengeance.
In the end they will destroy it all for other Muslims who want to live peacefully and honor their vows as citizens...a Muslim has to honor his pacts...otherwise he should leave the foreign land...no other way about it.

The fact that all the flak is thrown at countries like Pakistan whereas there are many supporters of terrorists operating in the open in UK is quite interesting and merits quite a few questions and answers...I am not saying that all Muslims should be treated differently in UK because that is precisely what i want to be rectified...but certainly this man has openly declared what his views are...why so tolerant with him but so strict on those who are from other countries....
If i go to UK and even mention bomb or terrorism on the airport i am sure they will conduct a thorough cavity search and may not even let me off after that...

Giving this man so much coverage and letting him run in the open will create more and more hatred for Muslims...strange that the British Government does not see this or chooses to let it happen...

 

[fhassan]

UK is a relatively closed society and views Muslims with a slight mistrust...a mistrust which only increases with such people, who in turn use this to spread further hate...

Erm... I would have to disagree with that.

It's actually quite open, and Muslims in general have become part of everyday life here in the UK.

However, what you portray may become reality IF people like Anjum become more prominent, and if such people insist in causing a nuisance.

I have seen quite a few Muslims from UK who support the TTP against GOP

I would attribute that to misinformation and naivety - They take the Taliban at face value when they say "we want Islamic law".

 

[All-Green]

Erm... I would have to disagree with that.

It's actually quite open, and Muslims in general have become part of everyday life here in the UK.

However, what you portray may become reality IF people like Anjum become more prominent, and if such people insist in causing a nuisance.



I would attribute that to misinformation and naivety - They take the Taliban at face value when they say "we want Islamic law".

Compared to US it is comparatively a less open society but I did not say it was hostile...
I have friends and family in both UK and US so this i base on mine and their collective experiences...definitely your view can be different but the bottom line is that these people will cause further damage to the average man's prospects...they will play no positive role...

People having views like Anjum are becoming more and more common in UK...i have seen many like minded individuals come to Pakistan and brainwash people all around me, even at workplace i know such individuals...these are not naive people...they are hardcore and well educated too...it is really difficult to argue with them because they are extremely rigid in their views...

 

[Awesome]

Actually an anti-war protest through a street commemorating the war is probably the best message he could send. It's the absolute defiance of war.

However I don't know this guy, and from what you Brits are mentioning (and the articles have not lost any breath to keep reminding us in every sentence with adjectives such as "radical" and "extremist") seems like a terrorist sympathizer.

However protection of free speech should be supreme and if he really is a nut job people won't join him in any significant numbers and he'd have a failed protest in any case.

With that said, if he wasn't a nutcase, and truly just opposed the war on humanitarian causes (and not some perceived Muslim supremacy), this tactic isn't "appalling".

 

[scrumpy]

I agree with fhassan here. The guy has a right to take out an anti war protest. However the choice of place and the track record of this guy is going to only end up befitting other extremists like the BNP and this will have severe repercussions for everyone in this society.

 

[illuminatus]

From what I hear, they plan to march through a town known for honoring dead British soldiers.

Their plan is actually quite innovative, which is to march with coffins signifying dead Afghans and Iraqis that have been killed by the actions of Britain. It's genius in my eyes - think about it. The English don't actually give a toss about dead afghans and Iraqis, they are just numbers, however they mourn their own dead most honorably.

This march may even open their eyes.

However, I deem it best to not go ahead with the march simply because the English are not as liberal as they think they are - they simply won't get it and there will be a backlash that EVERY Muslim MAY face sooner or later.

Freedom of speech in my eyes comes with responsibility; it would be irresponsible for them to go ahead with this perfectly legitimate march.

The Brits are the leading hypocrites of the world. These are the same people that shout death and murder to anyone that opposes freedom to insult. If you insult and provoke Islam or any other religion for that matter it's justified as freedom of speech. It's not considered as instigating hatred and xenophobic ideas. On the contrary, you're considered a bastion of freedom of speech. The argument is that everyone should have the freedom to insult. However, just try to deny the Holocaust for instance. Let alone insult or provoke it. You'll end up in the prison. This is what we know as applying double standards. I don't expect any different, especially from the colonialist.

 

[scrumpy]

However, just try to deny the Holocaust for instance. Let alone insult or provoke it. You'll end up in the prison. This is what we know as applying double standards. I don't expect any different, especially from the colonialist.

I think you are confusing UK with the rest of Europe. There are no Holocaust denial laws in UK. Holocaust denial laws were twice rejected in the UK.

Neither is the display of Nazi items banned here. For more fun reading,
BBC NEWS | UK | Harry says sorry for Nazi costume

 

[New Shivaji]

This guy Anjum Choudhury is a front for Al-Muhajiroun ( An Organisation with extremist Views), He wants some free publicity and wants to be seen as the saviour of Islam and Muslims.
This guy lives in the western world but condemns them and their way of living.

Jis thali me Katha hain usi me Muth tha hai

 

[haawk]

the article is a clear example to show why the muslims around the world are seen with suspicion------its because of assholes like these .....they spoil the dignity of the community as a whole.........britain should just bring in a law-"anyone supporting banned terrorist organisations can be arrested and detained for life" i think this would probably shut them up!!!!

 

[illuminatus]

I think you are confusing UK with the rest of Europe. There are no Holocaust denial laws in UK. Holocaust denial laws were twice rejected in the UK.

Neither is the display of Nazi items banned here. For more fun reading,
BBC NEWS | UK | Harry says sorry for Nazi costume

Not that I condone anti-Semitism or the denial of Holocaust. Far from it. The example was just meant to show the hypocrisy and double standards which are applied by many Western nations. Britain may not have such laws in place, but we all know how they feel about anyone denying the Holocaust.