France's Beef With Islam

[Zabaniyah]

I would not stop anyone dressing the way they want to, in a Niqab or whatever. I do not condone the bigotry against Muslims in the West.

I would want Muslims to come out, to condemn "France's beef with Islam". I would also like them to rise up against extremism from certain Muslims that bring a bad name to Islam.

Please go ahead. I insist.

Spend your time to make them stop wearing burqas and niqabs and lecture them how to lead their lives. Say how bad Muslims they are being. Nobody's stopping you

As if the rest of us have nothing better to do.

However, I know how this will all end (unfortunately). Muslims will act divisive (playing the victim), being part of the problem than the solution. 'Religiosity' from many Muslims in the West stems from rebellion against perceived grievances, & has a very political nature. Many Muslims in the West that radically change themselves, resorting to extreme outlooks like the Burqa/Niqab do this because of these very reasons.

And you know how off-topic that is

This is not how I feel, but how the West feels. All they have to read everyday is killings from "Islamists" all over the world. But let me argue again: while Islam suffers the worst image perception today, religion as a whole is being looked down on in the West. People in the West think religion is a man-made creation, & more & more people are dissociating themselves with religion everyday, resorting to Atheism/Agnosticism. People have become disillusioned with religion. It was Christianity before in the Dark Ages, it's Islam today.

And are countries like Malaysia, the GCC states, Indonesia, Brunei, etc in the dark ages?

So what if Western people think negatively about us and Islam? Ask any European what Islam is. They'll say it's an Arab religion worshiping some moon god.

Do their personal opinions matter? The answer is no.

As long as resources keep flowing, I don't see any major problem.

Their opinions are nothing short of sensationalism as they have been doing ever since the colonial era post Renaissance. And in fact, the Renaissance was partly contributed by Muslims

Long ago, the savages even learned how to make leather from the Arabs. Can you imagine? They didn't even know how to make leather!

I agree with you about the media, especially when all the Western media outlets do everyday is report terrorism by "Islamists" all over the world. If Muslims had better control of the media, things would have different. If Muslims had acclimatized in the West in all fields of life, had powerful lobbies like the AIPAC, had influential thinkers & writers; you get the drift, Muslims would have been much better off. Who is responsible for the lack of representation of Muslims in all spheres of life in the West? Muslims. This is what I mean by failing to acclimatize & making themselves heard/count.

We don't need any Rupert Murdochs And certainly no need for supremacist morons like AIPAC. And the AIPAC boys themselves are extremists wearing $1500 suits.

 

[53fd]

And are countries like Malaysia, the GCC states, Indonesia, Brunei, etc in the dark ages?

Even moderate Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia etc; & non-Muslim countries that have nothing to do with the WOT (Philippines, Thailand, China) are facing militancy from Muslim insurgents. Even Central Asian countries like Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan etc; are facing the same threat. And Western non-Muslim countries are also seeing the rise of radicalism. Why do Muslims have to act as mercenaries in other countries, serving the interests of others?

We don't need any Rupert Murdochs And certainly no need for supremacist morons like AIPAC. And the AIPAC boys themselves are extremists with $1500 suits.

Muslims need strong representation from within if they wish to improve their perception.

 

[Zarvan]

I would not stop anyone dressing the way they want to, in a Niqab or whatever. I do not condone the bigotry against Muslims in the West. However, I know how this will all end (unfortunately). Muslims will act divisive (playing the victim), being part of the problem than the solution. 'Religiosity' from many Muslims in the West stems from rebellion against perceived grievances, & has a very political nature. Many Muslims in the West that radically change themselves, resorting to extreme outlooks like the Burqa/Niqab do this because of these very reasons.

I would want Muslims to come out, to condemn "France's beef with Islam". I would also like them to rise up against extremism from certain Muslims that bring a bad name to Islam. I would like Muslims to be part of the solution than the problem, acclimatizing in local conditions than acting as a divisive force, disturbing the balance of peaceful/secular societies.

Sir you don't tell Muslims you study and follow Islam Sir and Islam is clear about its orders and secularism is kufr in Islam so we give a dam about secularism Muslims duty is to spread Islam and if that creates problem for these so called secular the most corrupt societies and than every Muslim should do it

 

[Zabaniyah]

Even moderate Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia etc; & non-Muslim countries that have nothing to do with the WOT (Philippines, Thailand, China) are facing militancy from Muslim insurgents. Even Central Asian countries like Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan etc; are facing the same threat. And Western non-Muslim countries are also seeing the rise of radicalism.

No such thing as 'moderate' Muslim.

The issue of violent extremism has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I mean, who in their would side with the likes of Al-Queda and Taliban? As I said before, any form of extremism, especially violent isn't good. Hell, I'd even pay to have them executed.

And many of the mentioned countries, including mine do take initiatives against them even though the threat perception is low. We even work with US Special Forces.
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=224799
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=36281

I remembered that the only ones who condemned the US presence was the Bangladesh Communist Party

No short of the job there.

Muslims need strong representation from within if they wish to improve their perception.

Perhaps. We generally make good food. If the Japanese can improve their image in the post WWII world, no reason we can't. And I suggest we follow a similar model.

And please, lets not take bad examples like AIPAC. The sooner they are gone, the better.

 

[Zarvan]

No such thing as 'moderate' Muslim.

The issue of violent extremism has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I mean, who in their would side with the likes of Al-Queda and Taliban? As I said before, any form of extremism, especially violent isn't good. Hell, I'd even pay to have them executed.

And many of the mentioned countries, including mine do take initiatives against them even though the threat perception is low. We even work with US Special Forces.
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=224799
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=36281

I remembered that the only ones who condemned the US presence was the Bangladesh Communist Party

No short of the job there.



Perhaps. We generally make good food. If the Japanese can improve their image in the post WWII world, no reason we can't. And I suggest we follow a similar model.

And please, lets not take bad examples like AIPAC. The sooner they are gone, the better.

What we need to do is Islam follow Islam completely and should not be ashamed of Islam secondly Moderate Islam is new kind of kufr and propaganda spread by west and some slave mind in Muslim world fall for it and according to Quran if Muslims will follow Islam Kafirs will be never happy for it and if they are than you are doing something wrong so what Muslims should do is follow Islam and it will create problem for Secular (Kufr) societies but that is their destiny and Rise of Islam is due

---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------

You are not uncomfortable with a women dressed like that you are paranoid because you absolutely have no clue about basic & fundamental rights of an individual. Prejudice against muslims is historical and is growing not because 1% of Muslim women in France like to wear Burqa , but because they are genuinely ill informed about Islam and do not want to recognize their rights.

When you say that Muslims are the root cause of the Islamophobia then i must say it defies common sense and logic. Its like saying that Racism against blacks is out there because they are black !

Sir covering face is order of Islam they are truly informed that is why they cover their face

 

[53fd]

No such thing as 'moderate' Muslim.

The issue of violent extremism has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I mean, who in their would side with the likes of Al-Queda and Taliban? As I said before, any form of extremism, especially violent isn't good. Hell, I'd even pay to have them executed.

And many of the mentioned countries, including mine do take initiatives against them even though the threat perception is low. We even work with US Special Forces.
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=224799
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=36281

I remembered that the only ones who condemned the US presence was the Bangladesh Communist Party

No short of the job there.



Perhaps. We generally make good food. If the Japanese can improve their image in the post WWII world, no reason we can't. And I suggest we follow a similar model.

And please, lets not take bad examples like AIPAC. The sooner they are gone, the better.

None of what you've said in this post counters my arguments.

 

[Developereo]

This is not how I feel, but how the West feels.

Yet you decided to link the cheap French demagoguery about halal beef with Muslim extremism, claiming you agreed "as well".

If Muslims had better control of the media, things would have different. If Muslims had acclimatized in the West in all fields of life, had powerful lobbies like the AIPAC, had influential thinkers & writers; you get the drift, Muslims would have been much better off.

AIPAC wasn't born in a day. The Zionist domination of the West is the result of, not decades, but centuries of hard work. It is a well-deserved, hard-earned triumph.

As for "influential thinkers", who decides who's influential? If the media ignores you, you are nothing. If the media hypes you up, you are everything. Does Salman Rushdie have a single creative bone in his body? For twenty years, he churned out third-rate trash and, as soon as he wrote against Muslims, he got "discovered".

Who is responsible for the lack of representation of Muslims in all spheres of life in the West? Muslims. This is what I mean by failing to acclimatize & making themselves heard/count.

That is a separate issue from extremism. Communities vary in their degree of representation in various segments of society. Are Muslims any worse off than, say, latinos or blacks? I agree that Muslim leaders have failed in their duty to encourage their flock to take advantage of all the educational and cultural opportunities.

As for the media, it is a carefully guarded crown jewel of Western dominance. It is infinitely more valuable and powerful than mere military might, because the ability to control people's minds and mould societal norms is far more important than the ability to just kill. East Asians have been spectacularly successful in almost every aspect of Western society, yet they are conspicuously under-represented in the media. Indians fare slightly better and Jews dominate. Is it all by coincidence and random, or is there a direct correlation with alignment of political agendas?

P.S. I am not excusing the lack of Muslim representation in the media; simply pointing out that the issue is not as simple as might seem.

 

[53fd]

Yet you decided to link the cheap French demagoguery about halal beef with Muslim extremism, claiming you agreed "as well".

I wasn't referring to "halal beef" as Muslim extremism, but to many other things (from radicalized youth in the West) before this one that resulted in France's "beef" with Islam. I tend to identify the root cause of every problem, France's beef is the reaction/aftermath, & the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

If people thought I was referring "halal beef" as Muslim extremism, I would like to apologize for the misunderstanding caused from my part, that is not what I was trying to say. I only ate Halal & Zabiha meat in the US for 10 years, & did not eat Haram food.

As for "influential thinkers", who decides who's influential? If the media ignores you, you are nothing. If the media hypes you up, you are everything. Does Salman Rushdie have a single creative bone in his body? For twenty years, he churned out third-rate trash and, as soon as he wrote against Muslims, he got "discovered".

As per my humble opinion, anyone that is pensive, thoughtful, deep, individual thinker; & a good analyzer & can express it well has a chance to be influential worldwide. I agree that anyone who does not parrot Western ideals has a more difficult job than someone who mindlessly praises Western ideals, but if one is all the things I have mentioned, he/she still holds a good chance of being influential. The fact of the matter is that we are not deep thinkers, don't analyze situations well enough, & resort to conspiracy theories a lot. I agree that if these three properties were exhibited by (pro-)Western authors, they would still 'make it'.

 

[Zabaniyah]

None of what you've said in this post counters my arguments.

And I along with others kinda fail to see your point in regards to the topic.

I agree that there is a problem of extremism. Let the forces of 'civilization' handle the thing regardless of banner. The problems in the Philippines and South of Thailand had been there for a long time. It's one of those things that'll come and go in time given that they are countered by authorities properly.

And why do Muslim countries have to act as mercenaries for Westerners?

Let me ask you something, Iran is a staunch opponent of the Taliban, is it not? Do they not maintain their own independent policy?

And did they get any credit from the West? A big no. What system and government Iran follows is the decision of the Iranians alone.

The Western powers themselves have issues and capable of being very corrupt. Who do you think runs the Afghan drug trade? Afghanistan being the largest exporter of heroin? Undetected? By who? Illiterate villagers? What is NATO doing to stop that trade?

Can you imagine? And what's more, countries like Iraq and Afghanistan are forced to buy US military equipment. I am not playing victim card at all, but that is the reality. It is the West that has more power than any Muslim nation, and thus their role, status and responsibility becomes greater.

It's all about control for them. And they 'believe' that they alone occupy the moral high ground.

So just what can normal everyday Muslims do against that kind of power? Feeling sorry for ourselves? Feeling self pity? That's the thing of weaklings.

And besides, we don't have a bad image or negative prejudice in far eastern countries like China, Japan, Korea and in South Eastern Asia. Singapore is awesome.

Pointing fingers at each other won't help. And neither pointing fingers at the West.

Best is to get the best out of us. And show others as a positive role model. Positive thinking is very important. We can communicate and get along with their culture.

And if Muslims couldn't, they shouldn't be living there in the first place. One cannot be a flag bearer and be more French than the French.

Life's all about choices.

 

[53fd]

I think we are meandering around meaninglessly. So I'll break it down:

The Muslims in France are the minority group. If they wish to co-exist peacefully in France, they will have to make themselves be counted, their voices heard, & even compromise on some levels. Every minority in the world regardless of religion has to do that if it wishes to co-exist peacefully with a bigoted majority.

I am concerned about the rising wave of radicalism (as a source of rebellion & protest against perceived injustices, politically driven as well) in the West from the Muslim communities, & feel this will further alienate them & be detrimental for their future in their country.

Someone has to make a compromise if hostilities exist between two groups, & if the majority (more powerful) group is acting hostile, the minority will have to make certain compromises, if it wishes to co-exist peacefully with the majority group in that country.

 

[Zarvan]

I think we are meandering around meaninglessly. So I'll break it down:

The Muslims in France are the minority group. If they wish to co-exist peacefully in France, they will have to make themselves be counted, their voices heard, & even compromise on some levels. Every minority in the world regardless of religion has to do that if it wishes to co-exist peacefully with a bigoted majority.

I am concerned about the rising wave of radicalism (as a source of rebellion & protest against perceived injustices) in the West from the Muslim communities, & feel this will further alienate them & be detrimental for their future in their country.

Someone has to make a compromise if hostilities exist between two groups, & if the majority (more powerful) group is acting hostile, the minority will have to make certain compromises, if it wishes to co-exist peacefully with the majority group in that country.

Sir Muslims never make compromise on Islam and that is kufr we stand for Islam and fight for it if need but never back down this is Islam and order of ALLAH

 

[53fd]

Sir Muslims never make compromise on Islam and that is kufr we stand for Islam and fight for it if need but never back down this is Islam and order of ALLAH

I never said make compromises on Islam. But your understanding of Islam will be extremely different from others. If you are not willing to make certain compromises to maintain the good of the society, you are free to do whatever you like in Somalia or Afghanistan. No need to do that in the West & give Muslims a bad name.

 

[Zarvan]

I never said make compromises on Islam. But your understanding of Islam will be extremely different from others. If you are not willing to make certain compromises to maintain the good of the society, you are free to do whatever you like in Somalia or Afghanistan. No need to do that in the West & give Muslims a bad name.

Sir following doesn't give Islam a bad name and compromising on anything related to Islam is shirk and Kufr Muslims will never get a the good name in the eyes of Kafirs that is already told by ALLAH in Quran Sir at least read Quran

 

[53fd]

Sir following doesn't give Islam a bad name and compromising on anything related to Islam is shirk and Kufr Muslims will never get a the good name in the eyes of Kafirs that is already told by ALLAH in Quran Sir at least read Quran

I never gave Islam a bad name (I did the opposite), I gave its adherents a bad name.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

That is your opinion based on your trauma from the Muslim invasion of India centuries ago, you still remember!

Thanks for telling me that having an intellectual decision with you is impossible . I will remember .