France planning to build and DOMINATE EU Army, Nato claims as nation neglects duties

[DESERT FIGHTER]

only economically, not militarily.

I'd say both.. Who the fuk wouldn't buy a leopard over a lecrec or HK over Famas... Eurofighter? U boats etc..

Almost every modern weapon is somehow derived from German/Nazi weapons.. V rocket,Jets,even stealth fighters ... Germany has the capability and industrial capacity to become a major military power.

another way to look at it is that without NATO, the Germans have no capability to send an expeditionary force by themselves anywhere.

Nor the the French .. Can the French (themselves) go and fight a country like Saddams Iraq ? Don't give me the rag tag African militias example here.


The Germans have been pacified by the Americans (thanks to WWII)... Much like the Japanese.

Why not? Out of all European countries, only France has an independent nuclear program and its own spaceport. The British do not have nuclear missiles (they use American ones). Germany - is an occupied country with very limited rights. All the others - are too insignificant to claim something global.

Lift the American "sanctions" & Germany could lead EU militarily too (not just economically).

 

[T-72M1]

@SMS Derfflinger @T-72M1

The germans have the capabilities to become the european military power.
They have the money,a bright military industry...
Thing is that the liberals and 'history ashamed' circles of the german society won't allow Germany to build a strong military.

yep, has to be politics, they are an industrial powerhouse otherwise like no other.

Why should we be capable to do this? The most Germans, and I, don`t believe, we should piss in other front gardens.

capability =/= going full 'Murrican style and bombing every corner of the globe.

as an economic giant, you should have enough military muscle to protect your interests by yourself, that's about it.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

capability =/= going full 'Murrican style and bombing every corner of the globe.

as an economic giant, you should have enough military muscle to protect your interests by yourself, that's about it.

The last time we tried to be able bombing every corner of the world, we got an arms race with the Royal Navy, which were one of the reasons for WW 1. We had the anniversary day just last week.

Anyway, we will need every infanteryman and tank at home in the next 10-15 years...

 

[T-72M1]

I'd say both.. Who the fuk wouldn't buy a leopard over a lecrec or HK over Famas... Eurofighter? U boats etc..

no, only economically.

what good is that gear when they have soldiers' unions and no political will to actually make it a real fighting force ? unions are for factory workers, not warriors. I guess it helps that they're located in the heart of Europe and have no 'enemies' as such but their military is a mess. Trust me, I got this and lot more info from a US soldier who had been stationed there for 2 years, without the massive US presence and NATO nukes and protection, maybe even the isolationist Swiss could overwhelm them.

Almost every modern weapon is somehow derived from German/Nazi weapons.. V rocket,Jets,even stealth fighters ... Germany has the capability and industrial capacity to become a major military power.

the stigma of their past still holds them back, they should get over it already.

agree, they have all the resources in the world but they are not in a good shape with their military, and are certainly nothing compared to the French.

Nor the the French .. Can the French (themselves) go and fight a country like Saddams Iraq ? Don't give me the rag tag African militias example here.

let me flip that, could today's Germany even handle 'rag tag African militias' ?

The Germans have been pacified by the Americans (thanks to WWII)... Much like the Japanese.

exactly like the Japanese.

The last time we tried to be able bombing every corner of the world, we got an arms race with the Royal Navy, which were one of the reasons for WW 1. We had the anniversary day just last week.

ancient history

Anyway, we will need every infanteryman and tank at home in the next 10-15 years...

what for, you expecting migrant trouble and martial law ?

 

[waz]

Almost every modern weapon is somehow derived from German/Nazi weapons.. V rocket,Jets,even stealth fighters ... .

The designer of the jet engine was a legendary Englishman by the name of Sir Frank whittle. The Germans just took the design off the shelf and put it in practice.

 

[vostok]

Lift the American "sanctions" & Germany could lead EU militarily too (not just economically).

The key word is "could". But now they are an occupied territory. Russian withdrew troops from Germany 20 years ago, the Americans - did not.
Have you ever heard about Chancellor-Act? Every German Chancellor swears allegiance to America, as if he is the chief of an African tribe, not the leader of a great European country.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

no, only economically.

Without a strong economy, no one need to start the build-up

what good is that gear when they have soldiers' unions and no political will to actually make it a real fighting force ? unions are for factory workers, not warriors. I guess it helps that they're located in the heart of Europe and have no 'enemies' as such but their military is a mess. Trust me, I got this and lot more info from a US soldier who had been stationed there for 2 years, without the massive US presence and NATO nukes and protection, maybe even the isolationist Swiss could overwhelm them.

Yeah, the same USA, which start a War on terror without a strategy and a CinC, who couldn`t find iraq on the map...really? If you bomb a country, you should at least be able to find this country on the map. I don`t deny, our armed forces aren`t a mess, they are...but a soldier as source...tss

the stigma of their past still holds them back, they should get over it already.

We did, what we did...

agree, they have all the resources in the world but they are not in a good shape with their military, and are certainly nothing compared to the French.

Absolutly true.

let me flip that, could today's Germany even handle 'rag tag African militias' ?

Another true

exactly like the Japanese.

why...we went to afghanistan...no one know why, but we went.

ancient history

2 days ago was in a neighboring city a bomb defused from the last war ... again. No, not ancient.

what for, you expecting migrant trouble and martial law ?

Yes.

 

[UKBengali]

Ask the emiratis what they think about the french sh*ts they are using in Yemen.
Ask the australians why they chose french submarine sh*ts.
Ask those that made our exports rise to €16bn last year why they bought french sh*ts.

Australia only brought French submarines as it is based off a nuclear SSN design that the Germans or the Japanese cannot offer. They want to keep the option of switching to nuclear propulsion if they choose to.

Eurofighter(UK) is better than Rafale.
Type-45(UK) is better than Horizon class.
Leopard(Germany) is better than Leclerc.

I am not saying that French technology is bad but just that other countries are better than the French.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

I am not saying that French technology is bad but just that other countries are better than the French.

No, french technology are more than solid, the examples you called are...if there are really better, the differences are surely marginal and if I have this right in mind at least the Rafale is cheaper than the Eurofighter with a nearly equal, if not a little bit better performance.

 

[fitpOsitive]

France always tried to escape out of the American net, but always is taught a lesson, which she soon forgets. Just hold on for few days or may be weeks, keep open your ears for a new report and France will be shutup for few more duration. But they will do it again, until either Europe is liberated or (God Forbid)France is gone.

 

[UKBengali]

No, french technology are more than solid, the examples you called are...if there are really better, the differences are surely marginal and if I have this right in mind at least the Rafale is cheaper than the Eurofighter with a nearly equal, if not a little bit better performance.

Can France build a SSN in the class of the UK Astute?
Can France build jet engines as good as UK?

It is clear that the French cannot compete with other leading industrial powers in technology.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

My d*ck is bigger than yours.

Calm down buddy, no need for such words...

 

[Vergennes]

Calm down buddy, no need for such words...

I am saying this,because it's easy to claim things without anything to back your claims.
-
What kind of debate can we have if we say ; "X is better than Y","No Y is better than X" etc..

 

[MastanKhan]

Can France build a SSN in the class of the UK Astute?
Can France build jet engines as good as UK?

It is clear that the French cannot compete with other leading industrial powers in technology.

Hi,

That is a very strange post----. French equipment is as or more durable, capable potent than the UK.

The mirage 3 / 5 are still flying full force in paf---maybe for another 5 years. Any UK aircraft of that vintage---. The Augusta 70 is still working for the pak navy---the comparable UK sub that pak was considering retd 12 or 15 years ago.

Any 80's vintage UK fighter aircraft around!!!!!

How about the Rafale---4 years ahead of the eurofighter in service---whereas eurofighter is built by a consortium.

As for UK Astute----it is not " all " UK design---Uncle sam has a lots of input in it.

 

[T-72M1]

Without a strong economy, no one need to start the build-up

and you guys have one of the strongest in the world..

Yeah, the same USA, which start a War on terror without a strategy and a CinC, who couldn`t find iraq on the map...really? If you bomb a country, you should at least be able to find this country on the map.

the US foreign policy and their terribly ill-conceived WoT this past decade and a half have been a disaster, no arguing with that.

but a soldier as source...tss

what better source than a guy who was stationed there for years to learn of the inner workings of how (bad) things are ?

and there are many media reports corroborating what I learned from him so..

why...we went to afghanistan...no one know why, but we went.

because NATO/US, who have total control of German defence.

Japan are a special case, and everyone knows why.. but there still are many parallels with how the US has kept these 2 countries down after the last great war.

2 days ago was in a neighboring city a bomb defused from the last war ... again. No, not ancient.

war is ugly, but things are heating up globally again, good to be prepared, no ?

Euroskepticism is on the rise, Trump will most likely be the next POTUS, who knows how long EU and NATO will actually last for, so again, good to be prepared, right ?

Yes.

damn, think it'll that bad, eh ?

dethrone Merkel, and get some common sense national interest first people in there or the real ugly far right will rise, scary, and from what I've seen so far, it seems any normal person who speaks the truth is labelled racist/nazi "far right"

PC gone too far

good luck