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France is Racist !

Speak for your own countrymen buddy......Don't represent Pakistan.

No one can speak for their country at any level. I guess he is going by the comments on this forum from Indian and Pakistani members. Check the thread on India being the most openly racist country in the world. Desiman's points are the gist of that thread.

Do what the Kaafirs did when they were overrun in Medina. Converted or ran away.

The term Kaafir is a tricky one. Originally meant to denote people who do not subscribe to Islam's beliefs, it is now a discriminatory term used by Muslims (especially Arabs) to establish the misplaced sense of inferiority of non-believers.
 
Frnch decission of banning veils is confusing..On one hand they are the flag bearers of women rights,and say that women should choose themselves how to dress or undress,and nobody should dictate them..On the other hand they are dictating women on how to go out in public...

I wonder what kind of sanctions EU had imposed on us,if similar law was passed in Pakistan or a Muslim.How their media had portrayed us as women supressing tyrants.
 
Repost:

The French people take secularism very seriously almost to the point as a religion. France is more hostile toward religion than any other European nation. The following is an article by BBC from 2004. I don't think much relevance has changed since the time the article first appeared.

The deep roots of French secularism
By Henri Astier
BBC News Online
Last Updated: Wednesday, 1 September, 2004, 14:39 GMT 15:39 UK


France is not the only Western country to insist on the separation of church and state - but it does so more militantly than any other.Secularism is the closest thing the French have to a state religion. It underpinned the French Revolution and has been a basic tenet of the country's progressive thought since the 18th Century.

To this day, anything that smacks of official recognition of a religion - such as allowing Islamic headscarves in schools - is anathema to many French people.Even those who oppose a headscarf ban do so in the name of a more modern, flexible form of secularism.

This tradition can be seen as a by-product of French Catholicism, as progressives have always seen the pulpit as an enemy, rather than a platform, unlike in some Protestant countries.French Enlightenment thinkers such Voltaire, Diderot and Montesquieu regarded religion as divisive, benighted and intolerant.

On the ropes

The French Revolution brought about a head-on clash between church and state. Church assets were confiscated and priests made to swear allegiance to the republic.Both during the revolution and its imperial aftermath, the Vatican resisted the republican order Paris was trying to impose across Europe.

The French responded by marching on Rome twice - in 1798 and 1809 - and abducting recalcitrant Popes.Napoleon Bonaparte reached a peace of sorts with the church, which was brought under state tutelage, but left alone as long as it confined itself to spiritual matters.

The arrangement, known as the Concordat, lasted a century. In 1905, amid renewed anti-clerical militancy, the Third Republic decreed the separation of church and state.

Individual citizens


The law of separation meant strict official neutrality in religious affairs.The French state could not allow any proselytizing in public buildings - least of all schools, where the citizens of tomorrow were being taught.

The insistence on schools as religion-free zones goes to the heart of the French idea of citizenship.The Republic has always recognised individuals, rather than groups: a French citizen owes allegiance to the nation, and has no officially sanctioned ethnic or religious identity.

Although it can be carried to extremes - such as colonial subjects being taught that their ancestors were Gauls - this view of citizenship is fundamentally non-discriminatory and inclusive.

School bans must be viewed in this context and are nothing new.In 1937, the education minister of the day instructed head teachers to keep all religious signs out of their establishments.
This was not controversial - but then the state was confronted with a weak opponent in an overwhelmingly secular society.

Generation gap

In the 1960s and 1970s, mass immigration from former north African colonies brought a new challenge. This did not lead to an immediate questioning of secularism. The first immigrants had no desire to find in France the mullahs they had left behind.

Many of these older migrants are now shocked to see their children adopt conservative Islamic practices, and are at the forefront of moves to ban headscarves from schools.But younger second or third-generation immigrants see things differently.They have lived only in France, mostly in deprived areas. For many, militancy and headscarves are a way of expressing anger and forging an identity.

No one knows exactly how many French Muslims there are - the oft-quoted figure of five million is probably an exaggeration. But recent elections to their representative body suggest young, anti-secular and at times, radical Muslims speak much louder than older and more moderate community leaders.

Split

Faced with this unprecedented challenge, the French establishment is divided.Traditionalists argue that the Republic must uphold its secular principles as firmly as it did against divine-right monarchists in centuries past.

Headscarves in particular, it is argued, cannot be tolerated in schools, because they are instruments of propaganda for an intolerant version of Islam and symbols of the oppression of women.

The modernisers, on the other hand, say a ban would only strengthen the militants, and point out that the principles of secularism are not set in stone and can accommodate exceptions.For instance, the eastern provinces of Alsace and Lorraine - which were German when the church was weaned off the state in 1905 - have kept the Concordat system which allows clergy to receive government salaries.

The legal status of the headscarf in schools remained unclear for many years, but a parliamentary vote in February 2004 finally decided the matter.

Backed by French President Jacques Chirac, ministers approved a law that will come into effect in September, banning all obvious religious symbols from schools - including headscarves, Christian crosses and Jewish skullcaps.It is not yet clear whether this will achieve the aim of helping to unite the country or - as some have suggested - divide it more than ever.

Link:

BBC NEWS | Europe | The deep roots of French secularism
 
Dont talk about France then
Did i talked about all french.....see my comment...I never said all french are racist...I said few of them MIGHT BE.....But you put all Pakistanis in racist category. You want to put Indians...Do it i have no objection. When you say Pakistanis then you include me into it. And you have no right to say that......If you want to call me racist...Post a link which prove that i am racist. Then we can debate on it
 
Did i talked about all french.....see my comment...I never said all french are racist...I said few of them MIGHT BE.....But you put all Pakistanis in racist category. You want to put Indians...Do it i have no objection. When you say Pakistanis then you include me into it. And you have no right to say that......If you want to call me racist...Post a link which prove that i am racist. Then we can debate on it

when I said dont talk about France, I dint mean it personally but on this thread. South Asian's in general are very racist so we really have no rights to talk about racism. When I say South Asian i mean both Indians and Pakistanis. Does not mean everyone is racist but yes a huge majority of us take too much pride in fair skin or good features. You dont have to look far, we have had many discussions on racism on this forum already and many members have shown what they really think about other people. Sorry if I dont have the right to say someone is racist then no one here has the right to say that the French are too.
 
What if they they in return force Muslim females to wear tank tops and mini skirts ?

Well, society already indirectly does that.

You will get stared at, pointed at and even have to face some discrimination if you are wearing a hijaab/burqa. I'm speaking from what I saw in Australia, so I don't know about other western/european countries.

Sadly, I think it's only going to get worse... :undecided:
 
Maybe Muslim countries should put up their barriers and make any females coming from the West to their countries, whether as tourists, business or diplomatic reasons, MUST wear face veils as per their Law of the Land.

:partay:


Seriously, do you honestly believe God cares what a man or a woman wears as clothing? What kind of God would that be ...??

Think that the next time around anyone argues about clothes...

and just to bring a bit of 2300 year old wisdom on the table...
the next time you think about God and stupid things like dress codes or differences between religions think the following...it changed my life a few times....

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus (341BC-270BC) Ancient Greek philosopher


:coffee:
 
Seriously, do you honestly believe God cares what a man or a woman wears as clothing? What kind of God would that be ...??

Think that the next time around anyone argues about clothes...

and just to bring a bit of 2300 year old wisdom on the table...
the next time you think about God and stupid things like dress codes or differences between religions think the following...it changed my life a few times....

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus (341BC-270BC) Ancient Greek philosopher


:coffee:
We are talking about law of the land.....If some country want its citizen to wear burqa then you should have no problem. If banning Burqa is OK then Implementing Burqa should also be OK because the govt of that state is implementing it.
 
Well Sarkozy is one racist scumbag for sure. Dont know about french people though, as people have said we should avoid generalsing a whole nation for the acts of one racist President.
 
We are talking about law of the land.....If some country want its citizen to wear burqa then you should have no problem. If banning Burqa is OK then Implementing Burqa should also be OK because the govt of that state is implementing it.

And you are missing the point.

It is all about discrimination.. If someone is wearing a Burga I can immediately see they are muslim, and they can be discriminated against. To be honest, they can be treated favorably or not based on that, and that is not right and it shouldn't happen.

Same goes for Christians,Jews, whatever..

don't you get it?

:coffee:
 
And you are missing the point.

It is all about discrimination.. If someone is wearing a Burga I can immediately see they are muslim, and they can be discriminated against. To be honest, they can be treated favorably or not based on that, and that is not right and it shouldn't happen.

Same goes for Christians,Jews, whatever..

don't you get it?

:coffee:
Instead of stopping that discrimination by punishing those who are discriminating you ban Burqa.....Wow...Now i can say if you are not wearing a burqa you'll be discriminated as Christian in Muslim state to wearing Burqa is necessary then you should not have any problem right?????
 
Instead of stopping that discrimination by punishing those who are discriminating you ban Burqa.....Wow...Now i can say if you are not wearing a burqa you'll be discriminated as Christian in Muslim state to wearing Burqa is necessary then you should not have any problem right?????

You are obviously not getting it so let me explain with an example.

Example:
I work for a company, the company is looking for people. I am supposed to interview the candidates.

I have two. One is wearing a burga the other is not.
one is wearing a cross the other is not
one is wearing a jewish thingie the other is not

Now I am

Muslim
christian
jewish

I can treat favorably
by hiring the muslim because I can see they are one

by hiring the christian because I can see they are one

by hiring the jew because I can see they are one

I can treat them unfavorably by

by not hiring the muslim because I can see they are one

by not hiring the christian because I can see they are one

by not hiring the jew because I can see they are one


It is against the law to discriminate, but there are ways to disciminate that the law cannot possibly cover,

what would the law say in the above case.. ??

I can always argue they were better suited to the job than the other person.

Discrimination can happen in a million everyday ways and the law cannot be so finetuned to pick up everything, or otherwise we would be in court everyday of our lives...

I am sure you will still not understand, so feel free to ask for more explanation...


:coffee:
 
Let me explain....If you'll be hiring someone...Wouldn't you want to know his/her religion if you are so much into discrimination... Many muslims have name which suggest they are muslim....so now ban Muslim names too as it will also lead to 'Discrimination'.

2ndly If a man like women who show their flesh....then govt should order everybody to start wearing bikinis as it will not give him a chance to 'Discriminate'. As everybody will be in bikini so no chance of discrimination.
 
Instead of stopping that discrimination by punishing those who are discriminating you ban Burqa.....Wow...Now i can say if you are not wearing a burqa you'll be discriminated as Christian in Muslim state to wearing Burqa is necessary then you should not have any problem right?????

The point is moot, since many Muslim countries (like Saudi Arabia) actually have such rules where not wearing a Burqa is a crime, and even Westerners, Indians and any other foreign women there have to compulsorily wear Burqa!
 
Let me explain....If you'll be hiring someone...Wouldn't you want to know his/her religion if you are so much into discrimination...

2ndly If a man like women who show their flesh....then govt should order everybody to start wearing bikinis as it will not give him a chance to 'Discriminate'. As everybody will be in bikini so no chance of discrimination.
You are now off the deep end of this discussion. You absolutely missed the point by the proverbial mile. Or km.
 
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