France and Germany plan' more active' EU defence

[randomradio]

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/annual/index_en.cfm?year=2016

The EU budget 2016 is 155,004.2 million of which 4.02 million goes to 'security and citizenship'. None of this is defence spending.
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/annual/index_en.cfm?year=2016

There is also what individual nations in the EU appropriate for national defence.

I'm referring to all the defence budgets of all the EU countries minus the UK. The article that quotes Juncker mentions the amount.

Like the US, we would get pork barrel spending + lobbying, not a rational or optimal solution.

It's gonna be worse now, with JVs. Look at the Typhoon.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

France and Germany could take over UK , hmm I know they don't get along deep down inside

Never seen a German compliment English in any sport , and French do not like English language

Remember him hmmm now that was quite a story if you ever want to read about it

Napoleon the Genius
100-125 years ago only
(2.5-3.0 Generation ago)

& Mr Change , just 60-70 years ago1 generation ago

vs Britain , it will happen at some stage no doubt



No doubt about it

 

[Penguin]

European defence spending 2015: The force awakens
by Zoe Stanley-Lockman and Katharina Wolf

Amid macroeconomic crises and ensuing budgetary declines, the common refrain for European defence has been not to spend ‘more’, but to spend ‘more wisely’. But the resurgence of threats on the European continent – be they to territorial integrity or political solidarity – has been accompanied by a recognition that the mantra of ‘doing more with less’ no longer applies. New intelligence officers are being hired, surveillance equipment upgraded and planned cuts of the armed forces discarded. With its immediate security environment in turmoil, now that Europe is beginning to spend ‘more’, will money be spent ‘more wisely’?

As the repercussions of the deteriorating security situation in neighbouring regions are felt back home in the EU, there are signs that Europeans are adjusting their strategic calculations. According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies’ (IISS) annual assessment of global military capabilities and defence economics, the free fall of military outlays, which has characterised Europe’s spending priorities during most of the post-Cold war period, is finally slowing down.

Data provided by the IISS’ Military Balance 2016 shows that EU member states spent a total amount of €203.143 billion on defence in 2015.

Although spending still fell at an annual rate of 0.4% compared to the previous year’s outlays, the decreases are slowing and on target to begin growing again. 2015’s reductions contrast sharply to the plummeting in expenditure seen at the height of the financial crisis when budgets were trimmed at annual rates of 4%-6%.

Notwithstanding signs that the free fall of European defence budgets has bottomed out, Europe’s 2015 defence spending corresponds to a mere 85.5% of pre-financial crisis levels (2007) and thus the lowest military outlays in almost a decade. While Europe was struggling with the financial crisis, other regions ramped up their defence spending. In 2012, Asia overtook Europe to become the world’s second biggest regional defence spender after North America and, in 2015, outspent Europe by 36.4%.

Elsewhere, troubled Middle Eastern and North African countries are slowly drawing level with Europe, too. And while Russia’s declining economy might prevent it from maintaining its massive defence investments in the long run, last year again saw Moscow devoting a substantive share of its resources to the military: 4.2% of GDP was allocated to defence in 2015, an increase by 9% in real terms compared to 2014.

http://www.iss.europa.eu/uploads/media/Brief_10_Defence_spending.pdf.

That's €203.143 billion including UK. (this is nominal /current, it is less if real /2010 constant > 183 or so)

See also http://www.eda.europa.eu/docs/default-source/documents/eda-defencedata-2014-final (page 10)

https://www.eda.europa.eu/info-hub/defence-data-portal

 

[mike2000 is back]

France and Germany could take over UK , hmm I know they don't get along deep down inside

Never seen a German compliment English in any sport , and French do not like English language

Remember him hmmm now that was quite a story if you ever want to read about it

Napoleon the Genius
100-125 years ago only
(2.5-3.0 Generation ago)

& Mr Change , just 60-70 years ago1 generation ago

vs Britain , it will happen at some stage no doubt



No doubt about it

Nice trolling.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Really you don't see it ?

When English went to France in European cup , you saw the riots
I know many french who say they feel offended when someone asks them to speak in English

I love british Rock but french they only listen to their own music

Many french deep inside , love Napoleon - as a HERO

 

[mike2000 is back]

Beating up small countries may be relevant now, but that's not going to fly when countries start to become richer. Look where was China 20 years ago, look where it is today, imagine where it could be 20 years from now.

Indonesia and Mexico are going to be among the top 5 economies of the world. It's obvious they will build up military clout enough to represent their economic power.

Seriously?? You are comparing European powers like Germany,France,Britan to Indonesia and Mexico?? What's wrong with you dude?
FRANCE ALONE HAS FARRRR more influence than any other developing country in the world can ever dream of. Be it technologically, scientifically, economically, advanced industrial capabilities, diplomatically, ability to influence other nations, productivity wise or innovation wise you name it etc etc. I'm not even counting other European powers. Developing Countries still have a longggg way to go to even come close to European powers. What does Mexico and Indonesia even produce indegeniously that is competitive globally?? I'm not talking about European/American companies making stuffs there. Lol

As for your point about beating up small countries now and whatever. Lol You seem to underestimate the complexity and difficulties of fighting an expeditionary war thousands of miles away from home soil across the other side of the Ocean like U.S,France, U.K and Russia have been doing all these decades. How many countries in the world can do that? Very few. Even your country can't , it barely has the capabilities/experience to handle and influence its neighbours/tackle regional threats forget about influencing other countries around the world/fighting a war in another continent..

So you should temper down your rhetoric. When we talk about European countries unwillingness to do more on defence , it's more about complacency and public unwillingness to spend much on the military due to our standards coupled with a long of peace and stability not technological capabilities, unlike every other developing country who have the will but are incapable/incompetent/not advanced enough to do produce the type of military equipments they require. It's like a buyer(for example Saudi Arabia, or Qatar) saying they now have more capabilities/influence than their seller (U.K/U.S/France), because they happen to be buying from the seller in vast quantities than the seller has for itself. Lool
When we say Some European countries need to do more militarily we say this while looking up at other world powers like U.S and to a lesser exent Russia. Not some backward developing countries who all depend on European powers/U.S/Russia to buy their weapons systems and arm themselves. Lol
So it's all subjective.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

No kidding if you read English literature , they call Napoleon , a Joker , and a mad man. Funny short guy and many many bad names.

But when you view French historians they call him a brave warrior of French someone who defied odds and took on a brutal enemy, really

Napoleon is celebrated like a hero but he was exiled on a horrible island by British

Same thing with Germany , the whole WW2 angle between UK-Germany , you know that feeling comes back every time UK plays Germany in football , Germans always dig it when they put one fast one over British team

How British view French hero

This is how french remember Napoleon

There is a old theory that Napoleon's son was poisoned so he would not upraise against British

French-German (Austrian) blood line, died at young age of 21 , a military prodigy at his age well trained - yet died 21 (Allegedly due to mysterious illness)
Napoléon François Charles Joseph Bonaparte (Also known as FRANZ) , Duke of Reichstadt



This new nexus , do you think it is happening due to coincidence?

Now you are listening aren't you the old nexus is forming again !!!

The german/austrian-french alliance goes back a long time

Let it be said you have been warned house of charles

The iron cross should be well familiar representing the German/Austrian states
was quite prominent well into WW2 in certain Military

May be it is only a coincidence


We all know how Royals behave against French / Germans

Is it still child's play ?

France / Germany (Austria) , now taking leadership away from England

 

[mike2000 is back]

[

Really you don't see it ?

When English went to France in European cup , you saw the riots
I know many french who say they feel offended when someone asks them to speak in English

I love british Rock but french they only listen to their own music

Many french deep inside , love Napoleon - as a HERO

I have also seen some Canadian friends say how they ate U S national anthem and their American football. Plus how they remember how Britain helped them defeat the U.S In the 1812 war which helped Canada remain part of the British Empire, rather than be annexed by the United States. The government of Canada even declared a three-year commemoration of the War of 1812 recently intended to offer historical lessons of Canada's distinct cultural history and identity.
So watch out Canada will soon be invading the Yankees.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well Canada - UK , both have the queen's picture on the $ currency so that says about loyalty of Canada

 

[randomradio]

Seriously?? You are comparing European powers like Germany,France,Britan to Indonesia and Mexico?? What's wrong with you dude?

You should read what's posted. I'm talking about 20 years from now, when there will be a lot of small countries with $1 to $2T economies and large countries like Indonesia with economies over $3T.

If you take China as an example, China alone will have three provinces in 10 years that will match any large European nation's GDP, never mind the remaining 28 provinces.

Watch 3:23 to 3:46. This is really important.

Now look at the world map, especially ASEAN, Africa, S. America, you will see so many countries that are the size of US/Indian/Chinese states and are now growing really fast. Now you have a choice between competing individually with countries like Nigeria or Bangladesh in 2040 or join into one single superstate and compete with the US, China and India.

I'm talking about a single European nation over the next 20 years, not a year or 5 years from now, because that's how long it will take for a consensus to be reached. The sooner it happens, the better.

 

[Taygibay]

Many french deep inside , love Napoleon - as a HERO

Of course, we do! Empire, Army, Civil Code and so on, he made France twice as good on some aspects.

What does Mexico and Indonesia even produce indegeniously that is competitive globally??

Huh, Mikey? Mexico no but Indonesia is darn lively and pro-active actually.
They start with full license prod and adapt the materials to their needs often.
Within their context, the results are impressive & top of the game for basics.
Of course it doesn't make them what our friend thinks they'll be but it's better
than most and more than adequate for their challenges, esp. internal ones.

RandomR, when I was young they said the Moon was too far but cars would fly!
Food for thought ...

No kidding if you read English literature , they call Napoleon , a Joker , and a mad man. Funny short guy and many many bad names.

They have to! Simply have to! Napoleon's meteoric rise was made possible by
the British led and inspired coalition to punish us for having done away with our
kings and thus prompted fear in all surrounding realms.
They made that "monster" but considering the cost, they just can't own it.
If you can't do the time, don't ... that sort of thing ... let's say a rare lapse.

I'm talking about a single European nation over the next 20 years,

Factor 5 at the bare minimum.

GN all, Tay.

 

[bsruzm]

France presses for Brexit talks before end 2016

 

[waz]

Well Canada - UK , both have the queen's picture on the $ currency so that says about loyalty of Canada

True the Canadians are our brothers and sisters.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

[

I have also seen some Canadian friends say how they ate U S national anthem and their American football. Plus how they remember how Britain helped them defeat the U.S In the 1812 war which helped Canada remain part of the British Empire, rather than be annexed by the United States. The government of Canada even declared a three-year commemoration of the War of 1812 recently intended to offer historical lessons of Canada's distinct cultural history and identity.
So watch out Canada will soon be invading the Yankees.

Oh LOL! Back in 1812 you'd be lucky if there was a dirt path up to Canada. We had to navigate upriver on the St Lawrence. Probably had to pull boats up rapids from the shore back then too. The Canadians just sat back and laughed.

 

[T-123456]

It will be a Little India, multiple countries, multiple cultures united as one.

And what was the purpose of forming the EU?