FP22 Frigates deal expanded

[Quwa]

Based on the above article, it's clear PN is looking at Type-054A, and not additional F-22P.

 

[fatman17]

Surface ships are as important as subs, besides this, its better to get german and french technology instead of chinese as far as subs are concerned.

We heard that pakistan had transferred the technology to build Agosta 90B from france but i wonder why they didn't built any after the initial three as per agreement.

with french subs, spares is a big issue, that is why PN now prefers the german boats which is supported by a vast sparepart manufacturing industrial base. french dont use 90Bs.

 

[unicorn148]

Based on the above article, it's clear PN is looking at Type-054A, and not additional F-22P.

i dont think china will be ready to sell TYPE 054A presently because its still being inducting into CHINESE NAVY and three such ships are being constructed for them when china comes up with its successor they may plan to sell

 

[Quwa]

i dont think china will be ready to sell TYPE 054A presently because its still being inducting into CHINESE NAVY and three such ships are being constructed for them when china comes up with its successor they may plan to sell

The Type-054-series is their mainstay for a long while, but variants such as A, B, C, etc, will be there. PN may have a variant of Type-054A, but in any case, the main need is area-wide air defence in the form of HHQ-16 or even HHQ-17.

 

[aimarraul]

i dont think china will be ready to sell TYPE 054A presently

we are ready
054B

 

[oct605032048]

i dont think china will be ready to sell TYPE 054A presently because its still being inducting into CHINESE NAVY and three such ships are being constructed for them when china comes up with its successor they may plan to sell

The main force of people's navy in the next 20 years will be aircraft carriers, Aegis destroyers(target vessel) and nuclear subs. Plus it takes years to hand over the ship even two sides sign agreement right now, there would be no political or military obstacle in exporting 054A to Pakistan.

 

[Ghazy]

It would have been better if Pakistan ordered Miligem frigates with ToT rather then ordering more F-22P. Pakistan is not the part of F-22P project and I think Miligem is better then F-22P. Anyhow good for Pakistan-China relations

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It would have been better if Pakistan ordered Miligem frigates with ToT rather then ordering more F-22P. Pakistan is not the part of F-22P project and I think Miligem is better then F-22P. Anyhow good for Pakistan-China relations

I think once our engineers at our Sea , port will commission 1-2 frigates, of F-22 class they will get vital knowledge in Quality Assurance, testing and engineering that goes in developing these sturdy vessles of seas..

And surely after that skill has been mastered I don't see any reason why we can't expand our , abilities from , f-22p based platform to larger heavier base -

The weight/displacement is one thing but , if you have sophisticaled weapons on your ship you can still deal a lethal blow to any enemy vessels -

Once we have 8 frigates in next 2-3 years we should have a semi , ok navy - which can be counted on for some resistance to terrorist
at sea who ever it may be

I mean , Building a frigate is in essesne Transfer of technology , once you know how to put all the pieces together, we have our own Steeles mills which produces , raw STEEL and other goodes we can assemble all the ships we need, we would need just the , power supplies that move the ship at that point ...

I think we are on right path to being sulf reliant on ship building - for maintaining peace and balance in central Asia - against pirates


What would be interesting would be how would US respond to our request for 6 perry class frigates ???

I do know they are decommissioning a Amphibious Carrier ship this ship will be sank soon , I wish Pakistan could get that Amphious war ship as we can put Tiger Helicopters on that vessles , it would be a great addition to our Navy ... for next 10-15 years , as the Helicopters could be used to safe guard our shore lines, and control , rouge boats traveling across borders - etc

Once a rouge pirate boat or terrorist is detected at sea of course you need a , helicopter to be launched from the Amphibious Craft carrier , to engage that target etc
untill frigates can seize the ship after 20-30 min its a MUST for pakistan Navy to control Drug transportation , and also to protect our sea shores patrol needs -

Clearly the DRUG money is flowing thru the sea route , as all the terrorist are getting funding thru drug trade , and this can be stopped if right meassures are taken

Helicopters can patrol in groups of 3 , in all direction and it would great a great means to track all the ships in 400-500km zone which woud ensure security

Now this Amphibious Assalt ship is destined to be sunk ... in target practice , if we can get one of these , it would be helpful to make our coast guard operations stronger , as we can have helicopters launching at sea -

I mean we are talking about real cooperation in strengthening our defences and world security

USS Tarawa LHA-1

Thru France

Imagine our battle formation

FP22 with the amphibious assault ship , we could even launch , UAV from it etc

 

[pak-yes]

Oh come on don't expect anything from Americans.They will destroy this ship and but never give it to Pakistan.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Oh come on don't expect anything from Americans.They will destroy this ship and but never give it to Pakistan.

a) Well Pakistan is a non Nato Ally in war against terror, as far as I know as a Non Nato Ally we are first in line to recieve any decomissioned ships , and this ship is ideal for our needs , as we are in process to get Helicopters from France/Turkey

Benefits
Nations named as major non-NATO allies are eligible for the following benefits:


1) entry into cooperative research and development projects with the Department of Defense (DoD) on a shared-cost basis
2) participation in certain counter-terrorism initiatives
3) purchase of depleted uranium anti-tank rounds
4) priority delivery of military surplus (ranging from rations to ships)
5)possession of War Reserve Stocks of DoD-owned equipment that are kept outside of American military bases
6)loans of equipment and materials for cooperative research and development projects and evaluations
7)permission to use American financing for the purchase or lease of certain defense equipment
reciprocal training
8)expedited export processing of space technology permission for the country's corporations to bid on certain DoD contracts for the repair and maintenance of military equipment outside the United States


b) Terrorist can escape to Somalia in smaller speed boats
or as we have seen that terrorist can launch , small 3-4 man operations , in speed
boats , which go undetected in vastness of seas
So we do need Helicopters to chase teh speeding sea boats

c) Also the Amphibious Carrier (Helicopters) would allow us to provide much needed
aerial support to hunt down any Enemy Submarines, or engae incoming air targets
since the helicopters would carry missiles

I think if US administration is really serious about fighting war on terror, and winning it they need to really Arm Pakistan with right tool , we need te Amphibious Aircraft carrier, from where we can launch helicopter patrols across our seas shores
200-300 km zone all ways - the helicopters we will get from France would enable us to chase down any suspected Drug dealer ships or Terrorist speed boast that are trying to escape in darkness of night -

Also , its a ideal way for Pakistan and US relations to move in right direction

Think about it , we don't have spy settelites or AWACS , in sea to detect we need old fashioned patrolling , air/sea to make sure no one gets in and out of Country

And I think there can be a real case that can be made - for this ship if our Navy tries to discuss it with US , I mean after all we have commited 40,000-50,000 soliders and weapons across the tribal areas.

Also it helps us secure security of our neighouring countries so that no one just slips thru crack in sea

I mean we are 20 years behind in Navy , so we do need some urgent help in that area to match the growing demands of the world security and our own for that matter -

The ship would probbly help our defences, in region , and security then being below under water as a sea reef

 

[Quwa]

It would have been better if Pakistan ordered Miligem frigates with ToT rather then ordering more F-22P. Pakistan is not the part of F-22P project and I think Miligem is better then F-22P. Anyhow good for Pakistan-China relations

Pakistan wants MILGEM, but the MILGEM is going through sea trials and development, and when you factor in the time it takes to transfer technology to Pakistan and conduct trials, it's a while away. In any case, the F-22P is a good ship, it's just the air defence which is lacking compared to other frigates. However, this is likely to change in the near future once Umkhonto-R, IRIS-T SL and A35-based VL-MICA or VT1 are available on the market.

I don't think PN will get another 4 F-22P, it will focus on acquiring the Type-054A (or variant) FFG with area-wide air defence capabilties in the form of HHQ-16 or HHQ-17. In addition, it will also begin procuring used FFG such as ex-U.S. OHPs and others. In the long-run, it would be wiser to invest in the Turkish TF-100 or South Korean FFX than to acquire additional F-22P.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

When you read through Turkish defense forums, the general expectation of most of the members is to make Pakistan's existing involvement in the Milgem program "official" sometime in early 2010. There are also strong speculations that TF-2000 FFG (currently in design phase according to Turkish Undersecretariat for Defense Industries -- SSM) will be a cooperative project with Pakistan and if the parties can agree on terms it may likely enter service with both navies simultaneously in 2018. It'll be an advanced frigate featuring a stealth-concept (like the Milgem) that is on par with anything else in the world and can take on anything India may throw its way.

Here's an interesting article from DefenseNews:
Anti-terrorism, Modernization Pace Pakistani Priorities - Defense News

"The signing of the much-delayed U214 SSK submarine deal with German company HDW and the Pakistan-Turkey corvette program are expected in the new year. Both programs involve a high degree of technology transfer, beginning with modernization of construction facilities and indigenous construction of the warships.

The head of the Turkish conglomerate behind the corvette package, retired Rear Adm. M. Savas Onur, said a key aspect of the deal is to increase Pakistan's public-private industry cooperation in a similar vein to that of Turkey's defense industry."

 

[Quwa]

Joining the TF-2000 would be an excellent decision IMO. However, it's likely that Turkey and Pakistan will end up using different long-range SAMs on their respective frigates. For example, Turkey would likely use the SM-2-series, while Pakistan would likely use HHQ-9 or HHQ-17. In any case, Pakistan should pursue the TF-2000 and TF-100 frigate projects, as well as the U-214 SSK & MILGEM corvette with Turkey. The long-term benefits are immense. Pakistan could also work with Turkey to upgrade the F-22P's air defence capabilities, sensors, radar, electronics, combat management systems, etc.

 

[ice_man]

I don't think there would be any major opposition to any cooperation with Iran in defence field on this side of the border, but looking at our conditions you can guess who would be most pissed off, as we don't have the oil power nor the leaders which can stand up. I hope and pray one day this cooperation becomes reality just like IP Gas pipeline would become, as i see great potential in this cooperation, as both militaries need good and indigenous weapon systems.

currently it is almost impossible for Pakistan to get into a defence partnership with the Iranian brothers!

the reason is simple you loose the support of the arab world! arabs traditionally hold the Iranians as enemies!!! WHICH is EXACTLY what the west powers want the arabs to do!

so yes a Pak-Iran partnership in "defence" will be considered hostile by the arabs leading to a position where pakistan would not want to be in! its like saying the arabs make a military deal with india! you have to respect politics in such scenarios.....so let's just chill and expect the chinese brothers to work with iran & us...!