Former ISI chief: Hiding Osama a victory

[Manindra]

Hamid ne Pakistan & ISI ki batti Gul kar di.....

Wo to Abottabad commission report se hi gul thi

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I see more Pakistanis refuting indians than rejecting Gen Gul. disappointed.

What general Gul says is right, common Pakistanis like Laden and this was promoted by the govts.

Once the Pakistanis actually admired intellectuals and were largely inspired by them and now admiration is more for a man wielding a gun and calling for Jihad.

The problem is that many Pakistani Generals embraced the ideology of the Taliban. They see everything strategically and never politically, socially or culturally.

How can Pakistan be saved from extremism when it is not even considered a problem by people like Gen Gul.

Sad to see that a truly blessed country was ruled by the likes of General Gul.

Please don't be too disheartened yet.
Just as there are clowns like Hamid Gul etc. there is a substantial constituency of people in Pakistan who hope to lead peaceful lives and hope for a bright future for themselves and their children. There is evidence of that too among the membership here. All of you have to do is come together for the cause and just grit yourself through the circumstances prevailing. Even the Commission Report points towards some 'soul-searching' to clean up the mess that the likes of Bigots like Zia-ul-Haq and Hamid Gul et. al. and their cohorts have created in the country. That is a harbinger of hope!

Please do not get knocked 'off-balance' by some 'windy-blasts' of plainly misguided characters.

 

[Manindra]

Not really. I just learned a lot on this Forum.
Like Pakistan is amply endowed with GAS and WIND. That has been well displayed on numerous threads here. If you research carefully, then you will observe that too.

But I am good in Economics & in PDF its null.

 

[Sedqal]

very true.

If one finds the reason as to why Pakistani state has become so feeble, one concludes that the state was busy somewhere else.

The politicians squabbling, the civil-military bureaucracy scrambling for power and experimenting their strategic designs have mutated Pakistan into a ungovernable country.

I don't hold politicians responsible, after Ayub they never really had any power to take any major decisions. The decisions they did take have mostly brought positive changes. Even Zaradri did some wonderful things like amendments for Provincial autonomy and curtailing the power of president. Nawaz brought two of the most respected Baloch parties into mainstream. Politicians at least move toward addressing the issues with Army its always about creating more mess.

One wonders what it would be like today if Nawaz was allowed to continue with Vajpai, Kashmir issue was likely to have been solved removing The main hurdle between Indo-Pak relationship.

 

[Silverblaze]

Please don't be too disheartened yet.
Just as there are clowns like Hamid Gul etc. there is a substantial constituency of people in Pakistan who hope to lead peaceful lives and hope for a bright future for themselves and their children. There is evidence of that too among the membership here. All of you have to do is come together for the cause and just grit yourself through the circumstances prevailing. Even the Commission Report points towards some 'soul-searching' to clean up the mess that the likes of Bigots like Zia-ul-Haq and Hamid Gul et. al. and their cohorts have created in the country. That is a harbinger of hope!

Please do not get knocked 'off-balance' by some 'windy-blasts' of plainly misguided characters.

Its for the people residing in Pakistan to decide as to where they want to go from here.

I can only analyze from historical references that Pakistan is in deep trouble and has been manipulated to that condition, but the people still do not really admit it .

the thing that disappoints anyone who is well aware of Pakistan's past is that how a bright country terribly lost its way.

 

[my2cents]

You mean to say you lap up conspiracy theories when it suits you, but call out others for making conspiracy theories when the conspiracy theory doesn't suit you?

I think this is a good opportunity to reflect on yourself and how much of a hypocrite you are. How do you people live with yourself?

This is especially when the US state itself has publicly said that they do not believe of any Pakistani state involvement.

Look what you guys did to the poor doctor Mr. Afridi who helped CIA with his identity. He was helping CIA in capturing a known terrorist not revealing a state secret. Maybe he was naive...

 

[Silverblaze]

I don't hold politicians responsible, after Ayub they never really had any power to take any major decisions. The decisions they did take have mostly brought positive changes. Even Zaradri did some wonderful things like amendments for Provincial autonomy and curtailing the power of president. Nawaz brought two of the most respected Baloch parties into mainstream. Politicians at least move toward addressing the issues with Army its always about creating more mess.

One wonders what it would be like today if Nawaz was allowed to continue with Vajpai, Kashmir issue was likely to have been solved removing The main hurdle between Indo-Pak relationship.

I would have to disagree a bit, Ayub was welcomed by some politicians, Zia was appointed by bhutto and Mush by Nawaz.

Pakistan never had a genuine political leadership, all were somehow militarily created, may be because all genuine statesmen died or went to Bangladesh.

Pakistan was not at all difficult to manage, but this experimentation led to problems.

Imran was a nice change and looked like a national leader, but he has not exactly proven himself.

So, lets hope for the best.

 

[Sedqal]

Look what you guys did to the poor doctor Mr. Afridi who helped CIA with his identity. He was helping CIA in capturing a known terrorist not revealing a state secret. Maybe he was naive...

That is a completely different issue - Afridi had no right to spy for another country. Maybe India would appreciate Indians helping foreign intelligence agencies behind their back we certainly don't.

(Though the argument in Pakistan is whether he helped them or not in the first place)

 

[foxbat]

Look what you guys did to the poor doctor Mr. Afridi who helped CIA with his identity. He was helping CIA in capturing a known terrorist not revealing a state secret. Maybe he was naive...

Look at the irony.. Agreed that Dr Afridi embarrassed the state.. But he got tried for treason. The people responsible for allowing Osama to live comfortably in Pakistan for so many years, simply got a cover of incompetence and are allowed to go scott free without even a slap on the wrist.

I am sure no one thought of giving this benefit of doubt to Dr Afridi that he did not know what he was doing (as improbable as saying that no one in PA and ISI knew about OBL living 1 km away from the gates of Abbotabad academy )...

By this Pakistan has clearly shown its preference between CIA and AL Queda.. Then why crib when western nations make unflattering assumptions about Pakistan

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Well you know, as much as you may hate to admit it, It's not Indans but Pakistanis who think the world of Mr. Gen,. Hamid Gul, founder member of Defa e Pakistan movement - or is that also an IndianRAW, Mossad CIA creation?

@muse sahab; Hamid Gul is not representative of Pakistan (not to me anyway). He could be representative of an 'older Pakistan' but he is ineligible to represent 'Naya Pakistan' (pun intended). For me; people like you, Sedqal, Silverblaze, Oscar, Nuclearpak, Zakii, Jaibi, Argus, Niaz sahab, Sparklingway, FM17 and so many others (too long a list to type and wear me out ) represent the 'Naya Pakistan' the country that I and the world around will want to live with. Or dear friend Fauji aka FaujHistorian is plainly confused and some of his ideas (the McCarthyistic ones at least) seem to be bound in some Dinosaur-Age 'time-warp'. But that is not threatening at all. Just sometimes amusing!

The likes of Hamid Gul and his kind represent a greater threat to your fellow-citizens than anybody else. But only if all of you see that.
Or choose to see that.

 

[RuheTag]

Hamid gul is a internet trolls like - that would do anything to keep or gain the attention.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Pakistan has never had a stable leadership at the top. The power vacuum has been filled from time to time by these leeches. Hamid Gul is not a majority voice in the establishment, but he has a substantial following. As for his public statements he is like a Digvijay Singh on steroids.

 

[muse]

@muse sahab; Hamid Gul is not representative of Pakistan (not to me anyway). He could be representative of an 'older Pakistan' but he is ineligible to represent 'Naya Pakistan' (pun intended). For me; people like you, Sedqal, Silverblaze, Oscar, Nuclearpak, Zakii, Jaibi, Argus, Niaz sahab, Sparklingway, FM17 and so many others (too long a list to type and wear me out ) represent the 'Naya Pakistan' the country that I and the world around will want to live with. Or dear friend Fauji aka FaujHistorian is plainly confused and some of his ideas (the McCarthyistic ones at least) seem to be bound in some Dinosaur-Age 'time-warp'. But that is not threatening at all. Just sometimes amusing!

The likes of Hamid Gul and his kind represent a greater threat to your fellow-citizens than anybody else. But only if all of you see that.
Or choose to see that.

Naya Pakistan lost - I'm just sayin...
Some of us are too used to playing "Heads I win and Tails you lose" - Hamid Gul now an idiot? and at the same time the goings on in Pakistan not the fault of RAW?? Hain ji?

 

[Sedqal]

Look at the irony.. Agreed that Dr Afridi embarrassed the state.. But he got tried for treason. The people responsible for allowing Osama to live comfortably in Pakistan for so many years, simply got a cover of incompetence and are allowed to go scott free without even a slap on the wrist.

I am sure no one thought of giving this benefit of doubt to Dr Afridi that he did not know what he was doing (as improbable as saying that no one in PA and ISI knew about OBL living 1 km away from the gates of Abbotabad academy )...

By this Pakistan has clearly shown its preference between CIA and AL Queda.. Then why crib when western nations make unflattering assumptions about Pakistan

In affairs of state irony means nothing. USA had defense agreements with Israel (which included the agreement to share intelligence information) but gave life sentence to an American who was selling information to Israel one Jonathan Pollard >
Jonathan Pollard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He at first claimed that what he did was not wrong as America was legally bound under the defense agreement his wife also claimed that " I feel my husband and I did what we were expected to do, and what our moral obligation was as Jews, what our moral obligation was as human beings, and I have no regrets about that." Doesn't mean anyone is allowed to become a tool of foreign powers (even allies).

 

[Biplab Bijay]

You are the only sane poster in this thread. May your Allah always makes you smile.

Peace.

I see more Pakistanis refuting indians than rejecting Gen Gul. disappointed.

What general Gul says is right, common Pakistanis like Laden and this was promoted by the govts.

Once the Pakistanis actually admired intellectuals and were largely inspired by them and now admiration is more for a man wielding a gun and calling for Jihad.

The problem is that many Pakistani Generals embraced the ideology of the Taliban. They see everything strategically and never politically, socially or culturally.

How can Pakistan be saved from extremism when it is not even considered a problem by people like Gen Gul.

Sad to see that a truly blessed country was ruled by the likes of General Gul.