Former Indian Pilot Reveals IAF Casualties in 1971 War !

[ayesha.a]

Only famous sikh airforce guy I ever knew was-

You should read up about Marshal of the Indian Air Force, Arjan Singh, the only person to ever hold that rank. Nobody else has risen to five star rank in the IAF.

Arjan Singh

 

[VkdIndian]

India only fields Sikh pilots and deliberately holds back Hindu and Muslims pilots.

Such a thing may be possible in your mighty democracy? Not in India.

Since, there are no squadrons only with Sikh pilots or pilots of any other specific religion, race, caste or ethnicity, you are saying that Sikh pilots were pulled out from various squadrons and made to fly?
And Sikh pilots aren’t as good as other pilots? That is gem of a bouncer deserving a mighty six.

I could go in all day.

With such superior logic you can go on for years. Forget days.

you simply are barking up the wrong tree.

Yes I am.
Had I known how dumb tree is, I wouldn’t have bothered at all.
Seems you are in Windy’s league.

I sure will show your logic and analysis to my parents. They would be mighty thrilled on every paisa wasool they spent on me. Thanks for this opportunity.

Your analysis is totally flawed.

Earlier you were questioning my math. When that turned out to be correct, you have shifted tracks and gone to logic. Sometimes, logic can be explained mathematically. Which I did and you couldn’t digest.

Now you are taking ‘U’ turns? And that too so rapidly. Bravo.

 

[Trango Towers]

Such a thing may be possible in your mighty democracy? Not in India.

Since, there are no squadrons only with Sikh pilots or pilots of any other specific religion, race, caste or ethnicity, you are saying that Sikh pilots were pulled out from various squadrons and made to fly?
And Sikh pilots aren’t as good as other pilots? Hahaha. That is gem of a bouncer deserving a mighty six.


With such superior logic you can go on for years. Forget days.

Yes I am.
Had I known how dumb tree is, I wouldn’t have bothered at all.
Seems you are in Windy’s league.

I sure will show your logic and analysis to my parents. They would be mighty thrilled on every paisa wasool they spent on me. Thanks for that.


Earlier you were questioning my math. When that turned out to be correct, you have shifted tracks and gone to logic.
‘U’ turns? And that too so rapidly. Bravo.

You are so dumb you even edited my post..."consider this..." what does this mean.
India only fields." Understand maths you thicko.

I think u are a village metric pass


I will not waste time any more ...you have zero understanding of maths and daddy's laptop.

When an Indian has to be told that "maths is logic"...what the hell can you say....

Bye bye

 

[xyxmt]

Pakistan's sepoy army is a much bigger inheritor of British imperialism. It lost 2/3 of its jugular vein to Indian army and later half of the country to the same nemesis. Failed to decisively defeat the Indians in any major battles and allowed India to carry out high intensity terrorist attacks throughout its territory for the past three decades with impunity.

Indians were able to carve out an independent fighting force from the colonial Army that is answerable only to elected Indian representatives, whereas Pakistan Army only takes orders from Centcom and the pentagon and especially when those orders go against the interests of Pakistan and its people.

Sad but true

 

[GamoAccu]

IAF Abhinandan left his stuff in Pakistan.

 

[Wesen Hunter]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600016533425733632

According to this former IAF Wing Commander, 35/36 IAF pilots were lost during the 1971 war. Some may have been killed by local civilians, sadly this is also a possibility as emotions run high during wars between arch enemies.
The point here is that IAF admitted losing only some 40 aircraft during the conflict. Now we have a confirmation most likely under reported that 35 or more pilots were lost.
Below is an image also related to the 1971 war. It shows some 24 Sikh pilots of IAF in one POW camp alone. Now add to this Hindu, Muslims and Christian pilots who also fought for the IAF and a number would also have been shot down and kept POW in other camps. Keep also in mind the fact that according to IAF records, majority of air battles took place over India, thus those IAF pilots shot down over Indian territory make another number. All in all, these numbers bare irrefutable testimony to the PAF/PA claims of shooting down over 100 Indian aircraft during the war.....what to say of Guptas gospel truth.

View attachment 904451
Pakistan, Lyalpur camp, 12 April 1972, visit to Indian prisoners of war (POWs).
"Sikh pilots, now POWs, passed their time flying kites. Camp authorities forbade this activity. An "homme de confiance", also a POW, explains the visit of Red Cross delegates, emphasizing that he hopes the ICRC can negotiate on their behalf the return of the kites."

Completely made up.
Pakistani military historian himself admits there were only 13 IAF pow during war and only 1 or 2 were sikhs

https://twitter.com/x/status/1403350613665226759

 

[VkdIndian]

consider this..."

Considering theories that you proposed would make a even metric pass appear to be highly educated. I am sure that you have a degree from the MIT. Please do justice to that degree and don’t espouse your superior “consider this”.
First you applied Maths but failed. You switched to Logic, which was even bigger letdown. Now you are blaming me for not getting your “mathematical logic”? Your’s is mathematical illogic. Padhai theek se karni thi. You have neither got maths right nor the logic.

Logic, propagated by you of “Only Sikh Pilots”, “Sikh pilots having poorer skills” etc etc don’t fall in the realm of educated theories but juvenile and childish attempts.

IAF Abhinandan left his stuff in Pakistan.

Going off topic wouldn’t make the shame of 1971 go away.

We had many thousands of your military men on their knees in POW camps. I can post those pictures for you if you can’t find them.

 

[Trango Towers]

Considering theories that you proposed would make a even metric pass appear to be highly educated. I am sure that you have a degree from the MIT. Please do justice to that degree and don’t espouse your superior “consider this”.
First you applied Maths but failed. You switched to Logic, which was even bigger letdown. Now you are blaming me for not getting your “mathematical logic”? MIT me padhaate honge, humne to nahi padha.

Theories propagated by you of “Only Sikh Pilots”, “Sikh pilots having poorer skills” etc etc don’t fall in the realm of educated theories but juvenile and childish attempts.

Going off topic wouldn’t make the shame of 1971 go away.

We had many thousands of your military men on their knees in POW camps. I can post those pictures for you if you can’t find them.

Oh dear. I am talking to a man who thinks maths and logic are the opposite and that there are zero parameters with statistical analysis. He makes up theories in his head and thinks they are correct.
I.e...if Pakistan has 24 Sikh pilot and they are 10% of Indian pilots therefor pakistan must have captured 240 pilot...I mean that's elementary and wrong.

No not from MIT...I have have masters in aircraft design from a very prestigious UK university and you know jack about stats Maths or logic. I think you parents should be slapped for wasting their money on your education.

Anyways I won't answer you again...I am foolish to engage an Indian scholar. Have a nice day. Good bye And welcome to ignore.

 

[SQ8]

Both the PAF and IAF acquitted themselves better in the 71 war than they did in 65, where the IAF was a shambles flying club in 65 in 71 they were a well led force - they still suffered higher than expected casualties because of operating mostly over hostile territory.

In both conflicts however, the IAF had overall superior equipment and supplies yet failed to knock the PAF out. Indian fanboys will cite the PAF not appearing over key battlegrounds but that was mostly the fault of a failed promise of a vaunted offensive that the PAF was required to keep its assets available for.

aCdre Tufail probably has the most accurate account of losses for both sides compiled and that reflects better on actual capacity.

At the end, the Indian military as a whole(IA,IAF,IN) fought as a better unit with better leadership in 71 than Pakistan’s and the result is the plain to see

 

[VkdIndian]

Oh dear. I am talking to a man who thinks maths and logic are the opposite and that there are zero parameters with statistical analysis.

Make up your mind, what you want.
Sometimes you are all for it. At other times dead against it.

It is also good to see that you have edited your previous posts based on conversations later. Poor attempt of making an abrupt “U” turn look like a gradual one.

..if Pakistan has 24 Sikh pilot and they are 10% of Indian pilots therefor pakistan must have captured 240 pilot...I mean that's elementary and wrong

If you think that this approximation can’t be taken then get your degree rechecked. I never said exact figures. In a broad based event like a war spread over an entire theatre, this approximation is bang on.

As claimed by Windy, 24 Sikh pilots were there in just one camp. There would have been more in other camps? Unless Pakistan was organised enough to segregate and group soldiers by ethnicity. With that in mind my approximation of total 200 captured pilots isn’t wrong.

Since you are onto logic and statistic, please throw some educated light on your views of “Only Sikh pilots, Sikh pilots not as good” etc.
It was distressing to see a person claiming to have any kind education and exposure, making such fanciful flights of imagination.

I think you parents should be slapped

Using derogatory words for my parents? Must have been taught to you in that fancy university of your’s.
Please convey my warm regards to your parents. My village High School, taught me to respect the elders.

Anyways I won't answer you again

You shouldn’t have jumped in to start with.
Better to stay away then degrade the name of a prestigious institution.

Gist - this is a complete bull of a thread. Fanboys trying to create a mirage of victory, out of a complete defeat in 1971 IndoPak war.
Pakistan was outmanoeuvred and beaten without any shred of doubt. Picking up isolated incidents or battles and claiming to have an upper hand shows how dumb some people can be. They just can’t accept a defeat and move on.

 

[ayesha.a]

...

In both conflicts however, the IAF had overall superior equipment and supplies yet failed to knock the PAF out. ...

This is debatable, for the 1965 war. PAF had Sabres, while the IAF had a generation older air-crafts. And specifically with regard to "supplies" - I don't know about the PAF, but the IAF was woefully short of A2A missiles and ammunition, and had no early warning assets or surface to air defences at all.

1971 was a whole different ball game. The IAF not only had a decent SAM network and early warning grid, which enabled them to free up their combat aircrafts for offensive operations, but the PAF was reeling under the influence of sanctions from the USA.

 

[TOPGUN]

 

[Windjammer]

What a joker this guy Windy is?
24 SIKH pilots within one camp?

Sikhs constitute less than 2% of the population. But they contribute bigger numbers to the defence forces. Even if we consider 10% of pilots being Sikhs, 24 Sikhs in one camp would mean total 240 pilots would have been captured. There is no reason to believe that the numbers are not likely to be in proportion.

Even if the numbers are reduced to 200 presuming that even higher percentage of Sikhs were shot down, you see what OP is taking about.

Windy, kuch to dekh liya kar thread kholne ke pehle?

Just wait and see. He will trash your observation with a superior (ill)logic.

Not his fault. Anyone with jammed wind would do the same.

Since habitually you have resorted to your Indian table manners ....let me ask you, what does your initial D represents..Dense...Dumb or Daft ......either way, you leave no runners up.
The picture i posted of IAF Sikh pilots POW, are no actors like you assembled after the clash with the PLA and the wordings POW on their tops is no paint like IAF used to paint it's own MiG-21 wreckage in PAF colors. The image taken and posted in Life magazine was by ICRC who visited the IAF prisoners in the camp. In your case ICRC may translate into , ''I Can't Read Correctly'' but it actually stands for International Committee for Red Cross. They even gave the date and place of their visit....and since you are here to learn.....when you are a POW in your enemy's camp, you can't exactly chose, who and where you are placed with.

This is debatable, for the 1965 war. PAF had Sabres, while the IAF had a generation older air-crafts. And specifically with regard to "supplies" - I don't know about the PAF, but the IAF was woefully short of A2A missiles and ammunition, and had no early warning assets or surface to air defences at all.

1971 was a whole different ball game. The IAF not only had a decent SAM network and early warning grid, which enabled them to free up their combat aircrafts for offensive operations, but the PAF was reeling under the influence of sanctions from the USA.

F-86 Sabre.....First flight 1947...
Hawker Hunter.....First flight 1951....
Also look up SA-2 Guideline SAMs.

 

[.King.]

If 24 is 10% of Indian pilot then 240 would be total Indian pilots in air force. Not total captured you numbnut.

What a joker

Genius guy..... 24 captured, if they are 10% of general rank and file, then it implies 240 captured. Unless you are saying Sikhs got captured disproportionately.

If that's you maths then your parents wasted money on your school. Your logic is flaws as I showed you. You need to learn the basics of thinking.

Another genius

Your analysis is totally flawed.

Now consider this.
India only fields Sikh pilots and deliberately holds back Hindu and Muslims pilots. Or perhaps Sikh pilots are rubbish compared to Hindu pilots and large number get shot down. I could go in all day.
This is basic stats.. you simply are barking up the wrong tree.

Atleast have some idea of how IAF operates before making a fool of yourself...

 

[VkdIndian]

Since habitually you have resorted to your Indian table manners ....let me ask you, what does your initial D represents..Dense...Dumb or Daft ......either way, you leave no runners up.
The picture i posted of IAF Sikh pilots POW, are no actors like you assembled after the clash with the PLA and the wordings POW on their tops is no paint like IAF used to paint it's own MiG-21 wreckage in PAF colors. The image taken and posted in Life magazine was by ICRC who visited the IAF prisoners in the camp. In your case ICRC may translate into , ''I Can't Read Correctly'' but it actually stands for International Committee for Red Cross. They even gave the date and place of their visit....and since you are here to learn.....when you are a POW in your enemy's camp, you can't exactly chose, who and where you are placed with.

Hey Windy,

You should restrict yourself to posting just pictures without any comments.
Moment you open your mouth, you end up s##ting all over.

You are saying that this picture is historically 100% correct inspite of statistically appearing all wrong?
You remember a postage stamp issued by your own postage department showing 93,000 POWs after 1971 war? Is that figure correct? Should be as per your logic. Should I post videos of reputed media talking about genocide of gigantic proportions by PA in East Paksiatn?
You would be very fast in calling all of them biased and inaccurate.

Creating threads like this is another weak area of your’s. You end up getting your face blackened rather than achieving anything else. This wouldn’t be the first time.

Dekh lo, marzi tumhari hai.