Former Indian Pilot Reveals IAF Casualties in 1971 War !

[SQ8]

This is debatable, for the 1965 war. PAF had Sabres, while the IAF had a generation older air-crafts. And specifically with regard to "supplies" - I don't know about the PAF, but the IAF was woefully short of A2A missiles and ammunition, and had no early warning assets or surface to air defences at all.

1971 was a whole different ball game. The IAF not only had a decent SAM network and early warning grid, which enabled them to free up their combat aircrafts for offensive operations, but the PAF was reeling under the influence of sanctions from the USA.

All a myth created that the Sabres were superior - the IAF had more Hunters and Gnats than the entire PAF Sabre fleet and they are superior aircraft in most respects. The few A/A missiles the PAF had were extremely limited in employment. These are all just excuses peddled by Indian jingoistic historians and fanboys to make up for pathetic performance overall in any aspect.

Even the myth of the starfighter was exaggerated - but at the end nationalistic tendencies drive public narratives but not private ones otherwise the IAF would not have done better in 71.

But that doesn’t mean the PAF with its superior training and well rehearsed war plan fared any better in 65 and literally snatched a proverbial defeat from the jaws of total victory in terms of what it should have achieved because of dithering leadership and a few rotten eggs in certain posts.

 

[Mustang125]

IAF Abhinandan left his stuff in Pakistan.

View attachment 907825

At the bottom right corner the cup in which he was served fantastic tea is there too!

 

[Tornado23]

All a myth created that the Sabres were superior - the IAF had more Hunters and Gnats than the entire PAF Sabre fleet and they are superior aircraft in most respects. The few A/A missiles the PAF had were extremely limited in employment. These are all just excuses peddled by Indian jingoistic historians and fanboys to make up for pathetic performance overall in any aspect.

Even the myth of the starfighter was exaggerated - but at the end nationalistic tendencies drive public narratives but not private ones otherwise the IAF would not have done better in 71.

But that doesn’t mean the PAF with its superior training and well rehearsed war plan fared any better in 65 and literally snatched a proverbial defeat from the jaws of total victory in terms of what it should have achieved because of dithering leadership and a few rotten eggs in certain posts.

To add, the air to air missiles Pakistan received were the GAR 8/AIM9B sidewinder missile, which had poor heat discrepancy (as is evident by MM Alam firing his sidewinder at the rear of a Hunter, but the sidewinder ended up going straight into the ground due to the seeker head being confused between the heat from the hunters jet engine and the heat from the ground) as well as very very limited deployment. Nearly all air to air kills were achieved by guns.

 

[SQ8]

To add, the air to air missiles Pakistan received were the GAR 8/AIM9B sidewinder missile, which had poor heat discrepancy (as is evident by MM Alam firing his sidewinder at the rear of a Hunter, but the sidewinder ended up going straight into the ground due to the seeker head being confused between the heat from the hunters jet engine and the heat from the ground) as well as very very limited deployment. Nearly all air to air kills were achieved by guns.

Both the Hunter and Gnat had superior cannons to the Sabre’s 50mm guns. Which meant that IAF kills could be achieved even by two to three shots landing on a sabre with a few pot shots while PAF Sabre pilots had to literally hold their target in firing positions for several seconds and hope to get some 30-40 rounds on before a kill could possibly be achieved.
Many IAF escaped as damaged because of this poor armament

 

[Tornado23]

Both the Hunter and Gnat had superior cannons to the Sabre’s 50mm guns. Which meant that IAF kills could be achieved even by two to three shots landing on a sabre with a few pot shots while PAF Sabre pilots had to literally hold their target in firing positions for several seconds and hope to get some 30-40 rounds on before a kill could possibly be achieved.
Many IAF escaped as damaged because of this poor armament

Both Gnat and Hunter used the 30mm ADEN cannon, their mystere IVA used the DEFA 30mm guns.

Both the MystereIVA and the Hunter were quicker than the Sabre (715mph for the Hunter, 690-700mph for the mystere and 680mph for the Sabre)


But they still say Pakistan had the advantage.

 

[SQ8]

Both Gnat and Hunter used the 30mm ADEN cannon, their mystere IVA used the DEFA 30mm guns.

Both the MystereIVA and the Hunter were quicker than the Sabre (715mph for the Hunter, 690-700mph for the mystere and 680mph for the Sabre)


But they still say Pakistan had the advantage.

The Indian need to want that underdog story is part of their national psyche. They must both win but also portray it as some accomplishment not seem since Alexander the great - sadly a lot of Pakistanis also carry this defective character gene.

 

[White privilege]

Sabre’s 50mm guns.

Pardon me, I know it's a typo but I had to...

 

[nahtanbob]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600016533425733632

According to this former IAF Wing Commander, 35/36 IAF pilots were lost during the 1971 war. Some may have been killed by local civilians, sadly this is also a possibility as emotions run high during wars between arch enemies.
The point here is that IAF admitted losing only some 40 aircraft during the conflict. Now we have a confirmation most likely under reported that 35 or more pilots were lost.
Below is an image also related to the 1971 war. It shows some 24 Sikh pilots of IAF in one POW camp alone. Now add to this Hindu, Muslims and Christian pilots who also fought for the IAF and a number would also have been shot down and kept POW in other camps. Keep also in mind the fact that according to IAF records, majority of air battles took place over India, thus those IAF pilots shot down over Indian territory make another number. All in all, these numbers bare irrefutable testimony to the PAF/PA claims of shooting down over 100 Indian aircraft during the war.....what to say of Guptas gospel truth.

View attachment 904451
Pakistan, Lyalpur camp, 12 April 1972, visit to Indian prisoners of war (POWs).
"Sikh pilots, now POWs, passed their time flying kites. Camp authorities forbade this activity. An "homme de confiance", also a POW, explains the visit of Red Cross delegates, emphasizing that he hopes the ICRC can negotiate on their behalf the return of the kites."

Does all this matter since Pakistan lost the war ?

In any case generally speaking American aircraft are superior to Russian aircraft