Formal Offer for J-31 and also presention on J20

[ACE OF THE AIR]

That still doesn't make sense. Let's see, so if the current number of active -22's is 187, we would imagine that every single one of them, whether single sear or dual, had to go on training mission. So 187 jets went off on 2 training missions each for example (which is almost nothing, but let's go with 2 missions in each jets life so far lol). That gives you 374 combat flights (again, the number should be in thousands really).

So supposedly these planes flew 374 training missions and in each mission, the pilots had to fly against a larger contingent of -15's and -16's, to make sure the pilot and the jet are trained and effective in the role designed for them, which is air superiority. So each single jet, when took out half a dozen -15's in simulated combat, that means over 2244 simulated kills had to be recorded so far as each combat flight would result in that number so you take 6*374 = 2294.

Now add reality that the fact is, each pilot flies a LOT more than 2 combat training flights.....so in simulated combat like this, for each -22, you'd have killed like hundreds of plane over many combat simulations. This is all fan boy stuff and makes no real sense.

The only real comparison is, how effective is a jet, in one light, with its fuel and allowed weapons. The answer is, it takes out about half a dozen of enemy jets, before it can be "seen" with modern avionics. If someone isn't running 4.5 gen tech, then theoretically, you could take out 8 jets per combat mission. But you can't kill or simulate more kills than what you can do in actual combat .........

Sir what could be a realistic head to head?

yeah it would be a worry for sure.

Sir you see, We donot have much of a option either. Maybe worst case scenario we may aquire a few F35s. But being said that, I have every confidence in Sukhoi to overcome all the issues & make PakFA a success.

Still you dont get it...

Badaam khao badaam

 

[The_Sidewinder]

@Thorough Pro @ACE OF THE AIR

Atleast dont hurt our religious sentiments. Not appreciated.

 

[Viper0011.]

Sir what could be a realistic head to head?

-22 doesn't go head on. Its not designed to get into a dog fight due to its cost and all. If need be, it can defend itself. But the goal behind the $ 200 million jet is to take out enemy's air assets before it can be identified. Average is about 6 enemy jets per flight. Doesn't mean a -22 is lost every time it takes out about 6 enemy jets.

Once it takes out majority of the air defense or enemy aircraft's, the -35 or currently, the -15 and 16 go in and take care of the remainder of the enemy's left over planes. By this time, the enemy jets are trying to run away at the least due to losing so many air assets without knowing what happened.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Sir what could be a realistic head to head?





Still you dont get it...

Badaam khao badaam

I got the point.

Note: Recieved a troll warning for yesterdays world cup wala post. So I am trying to be a serious member. :p

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir you see, We donot have much of a option either. Maybe worst case scenario we may aquire a few F35s. But being said that, I have every confidence in Sukhoi to overcome all the issues & make PakFA a success.

Hi,

My thinking is that India might be going the american way.

 

[Thorough Pro]

What is your reason for that thought?

the way china is being cornered recently, it needs strong partners, and offering its latest military tech is one way of strengthening your partner. China will never let india become strong enough to challenge it directly.

Honestly I don't think China will offer any country j31 or j20. China will not give it's cutting edge technology to anyone. They will probably export j10 and j10b.

 

[MastanKhan]

-22 doesn't go head on. Its not designed to get into a dog fight due to its cost and all. If need be, it can defend itself. But the goal behind the $ 200 million jet is to take out enemy's air assets before it can be identified. Average is about 6 enemy jets per flight. Doesn't mean a -22 is lost every time it takes out about 6 enemy jets.

Once it takes out majority of the air defense or enemy aircraft's, the -35 or currently, the -15 and 16 go in and take care of the remainder of the enemy's left over planes. By this time, the enemy jets are trying to run away at the least due to losing so many air assets without knowing what happened.

Hi,

The post was very simple----out of 34 encounters---33 were won by the F22 and 1 by the F 15-----.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Hi,

My thinking is that India might be going the american way.

Sir, For India there is no other option if PAKFA deal does not mature.
The local 5th gen fighter aircraft that was going to be made by the knowledge from PAKFA is not visible. Still the option of getting into the Japanese 5th Gen fighter is also open but that will take time.

 

[Dazzler]

Its a fact not story, both have seen multiple combat simulation s and both are manufactured by SAC. what's there not to believe, but jealousy.

 

[MastanKhan]

in BVR combat sukhoi's won't have a chance to even look at those fighters and wouldn't even know what hit em let me give you an example F-15 (the most advanced block) vs SU 30 quite same many would say (although i believe F-15 is better) .. so americans in an exercise against f-22 used f-15 both air superiority fighters got result of 33-1 means 33 F-15 was shot down and than killed 1 F-22 so lets just make it half because F-35 is not and air superiority fighter and for the sake of the argument still we get 16 to 1 ratio and YOU WERE SAYING

Hi,

Thank you for your post----here are some supporting links---

F-22 Raptor: Capabilities and Controversies

At the same time, the Raptor has done extremely well in exercises against F-15s, with reported kill ratios of up to 108:0 during Exercise Northern Edge 2006. While it’s always wise to take such figures with a grain of salt until one has reviewed the exercise setup and conditions in full, the raw number is impressive.

Formal Offer for J-31 and also presention on J20 | Page 7

Hopefully, you will never find yourself in air-to-air combat with a Lockheed Martin F-22, particularly if you happen to be flying any other fighter besides an F-22. The Raptor still boasts a 30:1 kill ratio in mock dogfights (the only kind of dogfight, alas, the F-22 has ever known).

Notice, however, the “:1″ part of the ratio expression. That’s the proof: The F-22 can be shot down.

But how?

This morning, Lieutenant General Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, deputy chief of staff for plans, operations and requirements, explained how a Boeing F-15 can shoot down an F-22. Carlisle spoke this morning about fifth generation fighters at a breakfast event sponsored by the Air Force Association in Rosslyn, Virginia.

Here is a transcript of Carlisle’s remarks:


“They [the F-22s] always start defensive as you might imagine because anything elseis kind of a waste of gas. So the F-22 always start defensive. On rareoccasions the F-22 guy — first of all, the [F-15] Eagle guy, you have to fly a perfectlag fight (flight?). You have to have AIM-9X and JHMCS [joint helmet mounted cueing system] to get an off-boresightIR [infrared] capability. And the F-22 guy has to put up his power a nanosecond too earlyand not use his countermeasures and you may get a fleeting, one nanosecondAIM-9X shot, and that’s about it.”- See more at: Top USAF general explains EXACTLY how to kill an F-22 - The DEW Line

 

[Thorough Pro]

My Apologies, post edited.

@Thorough Pro @ACE OF THE AIR

Atleast dont hurt our religious sentiments. Not appreciated.

 

[Dazzler]

@Thorough Pro @ACE OF THE AIR

Atleast dont hurt our religious sentiments. Not appreciated.

Agreed, guys abstain indlulging in religion plz.


Thanks.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Hi,

My thinking is that India might be going the american way.

I do think so. Still I hope Sukhoi Design Bureau Will solve teething Issues of PakFA. F35 will be a reliable aircraft but will come with lots of strings attached.

My Apologies, post edited.

Thanks man, much appreciated.

 

[cirr]

The following is said to be a new radar dome for the next generation of AWACS for Pakistan。

Probably a slightly scaled-down version of the KJ-500

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

Thank you for your post----here are some supporting links---

F-22 Raptor: Capabilities and Controversies

At the same time, the Raptor has done extremely well in exercises against F-15s, with reported kill ratios of up to 108:0 during Exercise Northern Edge 2006. While it’s always wise to take such figures with a grain of salt until one has reviewed the exercise setup and conditions in full, the raw number is impressive.

Formal Offer for J-31 and also presention on J20 | Page 7

Hopefully, you will never find yourself in air-to-air combat with a Lockheed Martin F-22, particularly if you happen to be flying any other fighter besides an F-22. The Raptor still boasts a 30:1 kill ratio in mock dogfights (the only kind of dogfight, alas, the F-22 has ever known).

Notice, however, the “:1″ part of the ratio expression. That’s the proof: The F-22 can be shot down.

But how?

This morning, Lieutenant General Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, deputy chief of staff for plans, operations and requirements, explained how a Boeing F-15 can shoot down an F-22. Carlisle spoke this morning about fifth generation fighters at a breakfast event sponsored by the Air Force Association in Rosslyn, Virginia.

Here is a transcript of Carlisle’s remarks:


“They [the F-22s] always start defensive as you might imagine because anything elseis kind of a waste of gas. So the F-22 always start defensive. On rareoccasions the F-22 guy — first of all, the [F-15] Eagle guy, you have to fly a perfectlag fight (flight?). You have to have AIM-9X and JHMCS [joint helmet mounted cueing system] to get an off-boresightIR [infrared] capability. And the F-22 guy has to put up his power a nanosecond too earlyand not use his countermeasures and you may get a fleeting, one nanosecondAIM-9X shot, and that’s about it.”- See more at: Top USAF general explains EXACTLY how to kill an F-22 - The DEW Line

Hi,

I always found this 30:1 kill ratio for the F/A-22 or the 100:1 against F-16s a bit amusing. That's the theoretical value, not practical one at all. A single F/A-22 cannot kill more than the missiles it is carrying, and it no where near carries 30 or even half of that, (assuming each AIM120 or AIM9X that it fires actually kills a target)

To be fully stealth, it needs to carry the Air to Air payload internally, meaning only 6 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders. Once all 8 are expended and kill 8 aircraft, F/A-22 cannot do much. So it is more like a 8:1 kill ratio
Of course this case is for a single F/A 22

If it has to use the gattling cannon, then that is a WVR dog fight fight, and if it really is that close, then shit already hit the fan.

Edit:
Sorry i didn't see your earlier post, kill ratio can mean two things....
1-How many does the F/A-22 kill in one sortie/engagement
2-Or how many times (sorties) can it go up against an enemy and get shot or not shot.

Hi,

My thinking is that India might be going the american way.

America will not give the F-35 to India given the strategic imbalance it will bring. They gave Pakistan BLK52s to balance somewhat, so F-35 in the near future for India is not possible. Americans might let India have F-35 when it feels that both China AND Pakistan have got their hands on similar tech or are about to get it.

So F-35 sales to India are plausible, but not really the American way of playing the balancing act in South Asia.

Sir you see, We donot have much of a option either. Maybe worst case scenario we may aquire a few F35s. But being said that, I have every confidence in Sukhoi to overcome all the issues & make PakFA a success.

Well, the T-50 programme is in deep trouble and India has no clue. Already invested so much. Given that India feels the Rafale is expensive, i would love to wait and see how this T-50 and FGFA goes. India cannot build a 5th gen plane on its own, that is given and proven. Since FGFA is also tied to T-50 efforts, that is like a complete screw up.

Meanwhile China is chugging along. No funding issues, though we don't really know where their tech is.