Foreign training for NSG to improve preparedness

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Foreign training for NSG to improve preparedness

To improve its operational preparedness in counter-terrorism and anti-hijacking situations, India’s National Security Guard (NSG) is modernising its force with the latest surveillance and communication equipments and is also training its commandos with the Special Forces of different countries, said the NSG Director-General.

The developments were shared on the sidelines of the NSG’s 29th Raising Day yesterday. Force’s Director-General, Arvind Ranjan, also said that in view of the increasing number of IED blasts occurring across the country, the NSG’s experts are guiding and advising the instructors of the bomb disposal squads of different states in IED management. These instructors would then further train their own bomb squads.

The NSG, also known as ‘The Black Cats’, is a federal contingency force raised in 1985 to tackle terrorist attacks in the country. Enhancing the skills of its commandos, the NSG sent 17 of them to train with the Special Forces of different countries, including the United States, France and Israel, according to the DG.

The force will also conduct ‘personality profiling tests’ of its commandos. “In this test we will study the profiles of each commando. We will see what they are good at. Some may be good at firing, while others will be skilled in efficiently rappelling down from a hovering chopper. And using the test we will place commandos having varied skills in all our hits (teams of commandos). So that the hits are balanced,” said Arvind Ranjan. A hit comprises six commandos.

The NSG is also in the process of procuring high-tech surveillance and communication equipments. The force will also have ‘tactical extraction platforms’, which are nets hanging from the rear end of helicopters. At a time, 10 commandos can hang on such a net and be evacuated from high-rise buildings and hostile environments, according to Ranjan.

“We are focusing on improving the operational preparedness of our commandos. We are not just procuring the latest equipments and gadgets. But we are also training our commandos,” said the DG.

Modernising force

The NSG has sent 17 commandos to train with the Special Forces of different countries, including the United States, France and Israel
The NSG is in the process of procuring high-tech surveillance and communication equipment
The force will also conduct 'personality profiling tests' of its commandos

Foreign training for NSG to improve preparedness

 

[noksss]

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Buddy i know its not the right question to ask at this point of time but still thought of asking you. do u think the 60 hour operation in mumbai is justified and with all this new training will the NSG perform better

 

[special]

^^nsg's operation in Mumbai is a 50 hour operation. and the training will improve nsg's performance. but the big problem nsg faces is its mobility time.

 

[Bhai Zakir]

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Buddy i know its not the right question to ask at this point of time but still thought of asking you. do u think the 60 hour operation in mumbai is justified and with all this new training will the NSG perform better

Most of the time was wasted because:

- Of the confusion of the scale of attack

- Who is to launch offensive as Mumbai police was ill equipped (Now, Mumbai Police Force One is there and NSG too)

- Then the NSG have taken time to reach Mumbai as it was situated faraway in Manesar of Haryana state near Delhi (It will not happen as NSG is located in Mumbai itself and also NSG have power to get any plane ready at the time of such needs)

- These hotels were having 300-400 rooms so it takes time to search each room, toilet, almirah, pantry, kitchens, halls etc. etc. (With radars and xray to see through walls this time will come down)

It will not take 60 hours still with hostages and hundreds of rooms scattered around in huge compound it will still take 2-3 days for such operations.

Allah swt na kare, ki ab dobara aisa ho.

 

[special]

Most of the time was wasted because:

- Of the confusion of the scale of attack

- Who is to launch offensive as Mumbai police was ill equipped (Now, Mumbai Police Force One is there and NSG too)

- Then the NSG have taken time to reach Mumbai as it was situated faraway in Manesar of Haryana state near Delhi (It will not happen as NSG is located in Mumbai itself and also NSG have power to get any plane ready at the time of such needs)

- These hotels were having 300-400 rooms so it takes time to search each room, toilet, almirah, pantry, kitchens, halls etc. etc. (With radars and xray to see through walls this time will come down)

It will not take 60 hours still with hostages and hundreds of rooms scattered around in huge compound it will still take 2-3 days for such operations.

Allah swt na kare, ki ab dobara aisa ho.

if their training and equipments improved they can do that ops within 24 hours. better planing is needed for this kind of operations. in 26/11 kind of operations the nsg must get into rooms by fast roping from the top of hottel and this will reduce the time to complete the operations.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Buddy i know its not the right question to ask at this point of time but still thought of asking you. do u think the 60 hour operation in mumbai is justified and with all this new training will the NSG perform better

What i think is that they were deployed far away and didnt have time to react in time.What should have been done is that NSG should have been present in Mumbai itself and should have been deployed within 30mins-1 hr after reports starting emerging that its something big.Starting 12 hours later you have already lost time,people have been killed and there is little you can do.

Marcos not being an intervention specialsed unit were doing damage control.Mumbai Police was battling them with a stratergy which was good only for the local dons/bhais not commando trained terrrorist.It was a mess and we deserved what we got.

In our country the politicians salary hike doesnt take long to be cleared in the Parliament but a soldiers salary hike takes years...SPG are equipped with state of the art gadget in no time while the NSG are given equipments slowly.There is no SOCOM,No joint ops,no special budget for the SOCOM,what can we expect?

 

[special]

What i think is that they were deployed far away and didnt have time to react in time.What should have been done is that NSG should have been present in Mumbai itself and should have been deployed within 30mins-1 hr after reports starting emerging that its something big.Starting 12 hours later you have already lost time,people have been killed and there is little you can do.

Marcos not being an intervention specialsed unit were doing damage control.Mumbai Police was battling them with a stratergy which was good only for the local dons/bhais not commando trained terrrorist.It was a mess and we deserved what we got.

In our country the politicians salary hike doesnt take long to be cleared in the Parliament but a soldiers salary hike takes years...SPG are equipped with state of the art gadget in no time while the NSG are given equipments slowly.There is no SOCOM,No joint ops,no special budget for the SOCOM,what can we expect?

marcos are intervention specialsed unit. marcos have more experience than NSG in hostage rescue in 21 century, from anti piracy operations. for hostage rescue operations which is done in the middle of the ocean is more daring than 26/11 operation. the marcos are withdrawn because of lack of coordination b/w to units. replacing a unit from an operation is time consuming and this is one of the reason for such a long operation.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

marcos are intervention specialsed unit. marcos have more experience than NSG in hostage rescue in 21 century, from anti piracy operations. for hostage rescue operations which is done in the middle of the ocean is more daring than 26/11 operation. the marcos are withdrawn because of lack of coordination b/w to units. replacing a unit from an operation is time consuming and this is one of the reason for such a long operation.

When you dont know what is the difference between an "intervention specialised unit" and a Military SF it is better not to comment.

And keep that knowledge to yoursef about Piracy operation coz only an idiot would say that a piracy operation is more daring that what haopened at nariman house and Akshardham attack.

Do you seriously have any knowledge about what you talk? Go read NSG history.

 

[Hulk]

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Buddy i know its not the right question to ask at this point of time but still thought of asking you. do u think the 60 hour operation in mumbai is justified and with all this new training will the NSG perform better

One of the big reason for delay is late start of operations. The terrorist got the time to adjust their positions and locate themselves in best defensive positions. Apart from this 400 rooms search was tough. Do you know that mumbai police knew exactly the room where terrorist was located but decided to wait for NSG. I have no idea why marcos was not used at that time. They knew the exact room, should have been easier to take out some.

 

[janon]

One of the big reason for delay is late start of operations. The terrorist got the time to adjust their positions and locate themselves in best defensive positions. Apart from this 400 rooms search was tough. Do you know that mumbai police knew exactly the room where terrorist was located but decided to wait for NSG. I have no idea why marcos was not used at that time. They knew the exact room, should have been easier to take out some.

What makes you think the terrorists would simply stay in that room and wait for somebody to come shoot them? They were moving from room to room, searching for people to shoot. There is CCTV footage of that available. They were most certainly not holed up in a room.

if their training and equipments improved they can do that ops within 24 hours. better planing is needed for this kind of operations. in 26/11 kind of operations the nsg must get into rooms by fast roping from the top of hottel and this will reduce the time to complete the operations.

That is precisely how they got in.

However, for that to happen, the terrorists first have to be pinned into a single building by the local forces. That did not happen (and could not have happened) for several hours.

 

[Maler]

Most of the time was wasted because:

- Of the confusion of the scale of attack

- Who is to launch offensive as Mumbai police was ill equipped (Now, Mumbai Police Force One is there and NSG too)

- Then the NSG have taken time to reach Mumbai as it was situated faraway in Manesar of Haryana state near Delhi (It will not happen as NSG is located in Mumbai itself and also NSG have power to get any plane ready at the time of such needs)

- These hotels were having 300-400 rooms so it takes time to search each room, toilet, almirah, pantry, kitchens, halls etc. etc. (With radars and xray to see through walls this time will come down)

It will not take 60 hours still with hostages and hundreds of rooms scattered around in huge compound it will still take 2-3 days for such operations.

Allah swt na kare, ki ab dobara aisa ho.

Above all to reduce the loss of human life in terms of guests as much as possible. If It is on me, I will not accept a 12 hour operation instead of 50 hours, If there is a chance of saving one more life in the 50 hour long operation. The security force's primery duty is to secure human life as much as possible while preserving their own life and not to score points by concluding the operation in short time.

In case of Taz Hotel, due to the large size of hotel compound and complexity of operation, the operation has to take more time to conclude. Combat skills of NSG Commandosl are good enought, Only the highly advanced tech gear could have reduced the operation time significantly.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Buddy i know its not the right question to ask at this point of time but still thought of asking you. do u think the 60 hour operation in mumbai is justified and with all this new training will the NSG perform better

There is no doubt that if another 26/11 took place today it would be resolved much faster. For one their is an NSG hub now in Mumbai meaning the NSG will and can be on the scene within an hour. Even the main CT task force located in Delhi (at IGI) will be arriving much sooner as they now have the power to requisition any aircraft in India but realistically speaking they'd most likely go in a C-130J or C-17 which are deployed at Hindon (very short flight time from Hindon to IGI). I think I remember hearing that at the time of the Mumbai blasts last year this task force was sat, ready, in an ARC IL-76 on the tarmac of IGI waiting for the call to be deployed (they were later stood down). Additionally post 26/11 the NSG has built up an extensive library of blueprints of the most at risk building/places in India. This had been a major hurdle back in 2008 when the NSG didn't have accurate plans of any of the hotels that greatly complicated the operations.

Also, factor in the great leap in local/state police special response units that will give a pretty fitting reply to any terrorists. And talking specifically of Mumbai, they have the QRTs, FORCE ONE, NSG and RESCUE-10 all deployed in the city. The last of these is a SRU who is specifically meant to reach any site within (yep you guessed it) 10 minuets and contain the situation that allow the QRT/FORCE ONE/NSG time to arrive.



Every proffessional police/military force analyses their mistakes and takes corrective measures to address these failings and the NSG is no different so you can bet all their added training and new equipment is being bought with 26/11 in mind as such OF COURSE their response to a 26/11 type situation would be greatly improved.

 

[hkdas]

What makes you think the terrorists would simply stay in that room and wait for somebody to come shoot them? They were moving from room to room, searching for people to shoot. There is CCTV footage of that available. They were most certainly not holed up in a room.



That is precisely how they got in.

However, for that to happen, the terrorists first have to be pinned into a single building by the local forces. That did not happen (and could not have happened) for several hours.

they use fast roping from helicopter to the roof, not used this method for get into the rooms.
mission planing is not intelligence gathering, mission planing also includes planning how to enter into the hotel, finding the best entry points, positioning the sniper, etc etc. you have to remember one thing that the commandos are initially dropped on the wrong building. the helicopter pilots who fly the helicopters in that operations don't even have any special operations flying experiences or training, these are a major planning failure. NSG's are don't even have any information about what are the up against. the nsg must be told what marcos leaned in their 6 hour operations. biggest blunder was the withdraw of marcos in the middle of the operation.

 

[hkdas]

There is no doubt that if another 26/11 took place today it would be resolved much faster. For one their is an NSG hub now in Mumbai meaning the NSG will and can be on the scene within an hour. Even the main CT task force located in Delhi (at IGI) will be arriving much sooner as they now have the power to requisition any aircraft in India but realistically speaking they'd most likely go in a C-130J or C-17 which are deployed at Hindon (very short flight time from Hindon to IGI). I think I remember hearing that at the time of the Mumbai blasts last year this task force was sat, ready, in an ARC IL-76 on the tarmac of IGI waiting for the call to be deployed (they were later stood down). Additionally post 26/11 the NSG has built up an extensive library of blueprints of the most at risk building/places in India. This had been a major hurdle back in 2008 when the NSG didn't have accurate plans of any of the hotels that greatly complicated the operations.

Also, factor in the great leap in local/state police special response units that will give a pretty fitting reply to any terrorists. And talking specifically of Mumbai, they have the QRTs, FORCE ONE, NSG and RESCUE-10 all deployed in the city. The last of these is a SRU who is specifically meant to reach any site within (yep you guessed it) 10 minuets and contain the situation that allow the QRT/FORCE ONE/NSG time to arrive.



Every proffessional police/military force analyses their mistakes and takes corrective measures to address these failings and the NSG is no different so you can bet all their added training and new equipment is being bought with 26/11 in mind as such OF COURSE their response to a 26/11 type situation would be greatly improved.

NSG is a national level CT force not a local police SWAT team, today the NSG is structured as a local swat. FBI's HRT has only 300 personals, nsg has 15,000. HRT 's budget is 800 million/year and nsg's budget is approximately $800 million/year for 15,000 personals!!!!

using c-130j for transporting NSG is only cheep show for the public(a plane with turboprop engine is slower than a plane with turbofan engine). the max speed of c-130j is about 650km/h for il-76 it is 900km/h. with only a low budget the quality of the force is going to be affect. the personals who are selected for NSG's SAG can only serve the unit only 3 years, means the commandos in the ground are not much experienced. nsg is headed by an ips officer who don't even has basic military training. NSG's helmet is not built for supporting any NVGs or IR lights. NSG don't have a mobile command and control center for better intelligence sharing. NSG can be transported by a civilian 737 airline which is faster than c-130j in 26/11 they waited for a military plane to came and transport them insted of using a 737 civilian plane which was available at that time.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Foreign training for NSG to improve preparedness



The force will also have ‘tactical extraction platforms’, which are nets hanging from the rear end of helicopters.


Foreign training for NSG to improve preparedness