For Indian war planners, is the PAF their worst fear?

[Hasnain2009]

WHATS YOUR PROBLEM YOU HAVE BEEN DOING THIS ON EVERY OTHER THREAD

is your head stuck up your ***

paf cant fly same f-16s from the 80s for 100 years DO YOU WANT FLYING COFFINS i was speaking of their future i NEVER compared them with indian fighters

SO DONT SHOOT OFF YOUR MOUTH INSTILL SOME SENSE IN YOUR HEAD

USAF's is using F-16s in big numbers and and heard some where that 50%+ US air force is consist of F-16s, and they plans to it till 2025!! Now what u say?? A country with $600bn of defence expenditure is using flying coffins!!
The sentence "Flying coffins" is used for your MiG-20s!!

 

[qsaark]

USAF's is using F-16s in big numbers and and heard some where that 50%+ US air force is consist of F-16s, and they plans to it till 2025!! Now what u say?? A country with $600bn of defence expenditure is using flying coffins!!
The sentence "Flying coffins" is used for your MiG-20s!!

OK, my understandng for "paf cant fly same f-16s from the 80s for 100 years DO YOU WANT FLYING COFFINS i was speaking of their future i" is that PAF is flying F-16s that were procured back in 1980s. Hence they have pretty beatenup airframes, and old avionics suites etc. On the other hand, US is not flying older F-16s, but the most updated ones.

 

[hj786]

PAF is flying F-16s that were procured back in 1980s. Hence they have pretty beatenup airframes, and old avionics suites etc. On the other hand, US is not flying older F-16s, but the most updated ones.

Beaten up airframes? Not for long:
$5.1B Proposed in Sales, Upgrades, Weapons for Pakistan’s F-16s
F-16 structural upgrade programs:
Falcon UP
Although the F-16 was originally designed with an expected service life of 8000 flying hours, actual operational usage has proven to be more severe than expected and this has been exacerbated by its growing weight as more systems and structure have been added to the aircraft. As a result, the anticipated average service life of the F-16A/B had fallen to only 5500 flying hours. Beginning in the early 1990s, the Falcon UP program restored the 8000-hour capability for the USAF’s Block 40/42 aircraft. Pleased with the results, the USAF extended the Falcon UP effort to provide a Service Life Improvement Program (SLIP) for its Block 25 and 30/32 aircraft to ensure 6000 flying hours, and a Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) for its F-16A/B aircraft to assure their achieving 8000 hours.[56][57]

Falcon STAR
Falcon STAR (STructural Augmentation Roadmap) is a program to repair and replace critical airframe components on all F-16A/B/C/D aircraft; like Falcon UP, it is intended to ensure an 8000-hour service life, but it is based on more recent operational usage statistics. The first redelivery occurred in February 2004, and in 2007 the USAF announced that it would upgrade 651 Block 40/42/50/52 F-16s; this is expected to extend the Falcon STAR program, which began in 1999, through 2014.[56][57]

paf cant fly same f-16s from the 80s for 100 years

Who said they would be flown for 100 years?

 

[qsaark]

Beaten up airframes? Not for long..

I am aware of these programs. But FOR NOW, we are flying old airframes+out-dated avionics that are not good match with their updated Mirage 2000, MiG-29, Su-30 MKI etc.

 

[hj786]

I am aware of these programs. But FOR NOW, we are flying old airframes+out-dated avionics that are not good match with their updated Mirage 2000, MiG-29, Su-30 MKI etc.

PAF will probably never be a good match with InAF, but even old airframes with decent ECM gear are enough to take big bites out of M2k, Mig and Su strike packages.

 

[qsaark]

PAF will probably never be a good match with InAF, but even old airframes with decent ECM gear are enough to take big bites out of M2k, Mig and Su strike packages.

From a strict technical point of view, NO. PAF and IAF are no match, and that is bitter but true. Rest is all speculation.

 

[IceCold]

From a strict technical point of view, NO. PAF and IAF are no match, and that is bitter but true. Rest is all speculation.

I would say true for you and you alone, because i see things differently. You wanna know why because If what you said would have been the case then i'm 100% certain we would have had witnessed Indian surgical strikes on Pakistan and PAF getting squashed. Now please don't come up with the nuclear factor thing, it was hardly on the table since Zardari took office.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

I see this discussion to be a waste of time and space. PAF in its current state right now is a major threat for the IAF, and I'm talking right now, BEFORE J-10, MLU F-16, and JF-17. our Mirages are perfectly suited for strike roles and we make our own BVR missiles to arm our Mirages.

ask any PAF pilot, and they will tell you that the indians fear our F-16's the most. They can fly extremely low, avoid SAM's and missiles, penetrate airspace, strike at ground targets, and come back like nothing happened. This is why the F-16 is perhaps the most sought after aircraft in the world, it's because of this capability.

second, our F-16's do not have a lot of flight hours on them. We've kept them in pretty good condition, and instead relied on other aircraft all these years to take the beating. Things will get better when the F-16's go through MLU, and the airframe life will be extended. third, our F-16's were BVR capable, even before we received the recent batch of 125 AIM-120 C's, but I won't go much into detail.

Sukhoi's are a threat, however, Pakistan made it pretty clear during the Mumbai drama that we will retaliate within "seconds". the warning was pretty clear, we were going to use our ballistic missiles with conventional warheads to destroy most if not all of their bases. our ballistic missiles have that kind of precision, and more importantly, the range on our ballistic missiles give us deep-strike capability, something we've never had before.

 

[qsaark]

I would say true for you and you alone, because i see things differently. You wanna know why because If what you said would have been the case then i'm 100% certain we would have had witnessed Indian surgical strikes on Pakistan and PAF getting squashed. Now please don't come up with the nuclear factor thing, it was hardly on the table since Zardari took office.

No I wont talk about Nuclear option. The simple fact is, Indians are cool minded and practical. They are already witnessing Pakistan plunging Into turmoil. They dont want to halt their development by actively engaging into a full blown war with Pakistan. Had they had gone for a war, only Allah would have saved us from their airforce, not what relics we are flying for the past 30 years.

 

[Jihad]

No I wont talk about Nuclear option. The simple fact is, Indians are cool minded and practical. They are already witnessing Pakistan plunging Into turmoil. They dont want to halt their development by actively engaging into a full blown war with Pakistan. Had they had gone for a war, only Allah would have saved us from their airforce, not what relics we are flying for the past 30 years.

Well, thankgod you're not leading our country, and you should bring up a little more respect for our airforce, as they are the main reason that India has not done anything stupid in the past and not during Mumbai a few months ago.
What is it that you fear of the IAF?

 

[IceCold]

No I wont talk about Nuclear option. The simple fact is, Indians are cool minded and practical. They are already witnessing Pakistan plunging Into turmoil. They dont want to halt their development by actively engaging into a full blown war with Pakistan. Had they had gone for a war, only Allah would have saved us from their airforce, not what relics we are flying for the past 30 years.

Now what exactly this has got to do with PAF being no match for IAF. If you think that Indians are cool minded, may i remind you that the same cool minded people resulted in the loss of east Pakistan. Had they gone for war, in the name of Allah we fight and Allah is the only one who gives us the strength to fight a much larger enemy,however this has nothing to do with PAF being outdated. For your kind information IAF too is flying old relics such as the Mig-21, Mig-27,Mig-29, and Jaguars while the IN is still flying the sub sonic Sea harriers.

 

[Contrarian]

we were going to use our ballistic missiles with conventional warheads to destroy most if not all of their bases. our ballistic missiles have that kind of precision, and more importantly, the range on our ballistic missiles give us deep-strike capability, something we've never had before.

No you dont. Pakistani BM's are limited in range when you talk about a 'deep strike' in India. They are also limited in accuracy. You dont have a 20m CEP do you now.

Secondly, even the longer ranged BM's in Pakistan are limited in number to destroy IAF AFB's.

Thirdly, deep strike in India means really deep and destroying all the bases in that radius, not simply laterally. Because Su-30 have a damned good range, and IAF has FRA. And whats more, 6 more FRA's are going to be bought.

Your self congratulatory post doesnt really have that dose of reality.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

No you dont. Pakistani BM's are limited in range when you talk about a 'deep strike' in India. They are also limited in accuracy. You dont have a 20m CEP do you now.

limited in range? I hope you refrain from making these statements, deep strike is achievable when your missiles have a range of 2500 km. we can reach the other side of india, without having to move at all. what kinds of limitations in accuracy are you talking about? Pakistan's ballistic missiles are some of the most precise and accurate in the world, we have terminal guidance on our systems with GPS updates for a more refined trajectory.

Secondly, even the longer ranged BM's in Pakistan are limited in number to destroy IAF AFB's.

you have no knowledge of that, please do not make claims from like this. it's okay to let your imagination and bollywood movies take over once in a while, but it's important you don't loose control.

Thirdly, deep strike in India means really deep and destroying all the bases in that radius, not simply laterally. Because Su-30 have a damned good range, and IAF has FRA. And whats more, 6 more FRA's are going to be bought.

overwhelming your defenses with SCUD style attacks has an incredibly devastating effect on your arsenal and more importantly your morale. your Sukhoi's range is irrelevant when you can't even acheive air superiority, avoid SAM's, and can't guarantee you'll even have those aircraft left after a the first wave of ballistic missiles.

Your self congratulatory post doesnt really have that dose of reality.

look... just stay quiet and avoid trolling on these forums. as soon as you guys started posting again, I was hoping that some "sane" indians have finally come back to post. yet, I've realized I was terribly mistaken, ever since you've came back, I've had to put up with reading your posts. just stay quiet, please.

 

[Contrarian]

limited in range? I hope you refrain from making these statements, deep strike is achievable when your missiles have a range of 2500 km. we can reach the other side of india, without having to move at all. what kinds of limitations in accuracy are you talking about? Pakistan's ballistic missiles are some of the most precise and accurate in the world, we have terminal guidance on our systems with GPS updates for a more refined trajectory.

Which missile of 2500km range has Pakistan tested?

And second, please read up on any independent source on the number of missiles possesed by Pakistan.

you have no knowledge of that, please do not make claims from like this. it's okay to let your imagination and bollywood movies take over once in a while, but it's important you don't loose control.

Tell me the CEP of Hatf-5, i believe the longest ranged Pakistani missile.

overwhelming your defenses with SCUD style attacks has an incredibly devastating effect on your arsenal and more importantly your morale. your Sukhoi's range is irrelevant when you can't even acheive air superiority, avoid SAM's, and can't guarantee you'll even have those aircraft left after a the first wave of ballistic missiles.

The fact that you have not even bothered to get into the technical aspect to prove your point makes something evident-you dont know jack$hit about IAF AFB's, their range, the bases of Su-30 or heck-the SAM's in use by PAF!

Now, secondly, for a 'wave' of BM's on bases in Central India, give me a rough estimate on the number of missiles of the Hatf 5 variant!! Calculate the distance to Pune and then lets talk!

look... just stay quiet and avoid trolling on these forums. as soon as you guys started posting again, I was hoping that some "sane" indians have finally come back to post. yet, I've realized I was terribly mistaken, ever since you've came back, I've had to put up with reading your posts. just stay quiet, please.

Lol. Refute my statements with technical proof, not with bull$hit and semantics!


The difference between you and some of the other senior members debating here is more than evident.
Have you stopped to wonder why CM's are being so actively pursued by Pakistan? Or why the world over CM's are preferred when it comes to 'these things'.

 

[qsaark]

Problem with BMs (no matter how deep they can strike for that matter) is not only the accuracy but also the limited payload. It is proven over and over again that a BM with conventional warhead is no more than a terror weapon. With its limited payload, it can't hardly damage an airbase to an extent where it is no longer operational for a long time. BMs with tactical nuclear warheads is of course a different story but I am afraid, in the event of war, no one would like to push things that far.