For Indian war planners, is the PAF their worst fear?

[mundaus]

india is estimated to be at par with china in another 200 years. because it does not have one family one child policy.

We Indians want to be left alone without terror strikes or wars and all ventures of india is to keep her citizens safe. WHEN WILL U PAKIS STOP TALKING ABOUT INDIA MUSCLE FLEXING. WE R TRYING TO SURVIVE DAMN IT



we "underestimate" u after studying all the statistics, capabilities and technology of the paf
i think its the other way round

Airforces Monthly
An article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47) of Airforces Monthly, a reputable UK-based air defence magazine, written by a Russian aviation writer, Sergey Vekhov, for the first time in public, provided a first-hand account about the PAF’s pilots:

“As an air defence analyst, I am fully aware that the Pakistan Air Force ranks today as one of the best air forces in the world and that the PAF Combat Commanders’ School (CCS) in Sargodha has been ranked as the best GCI/pilot and fighter tactics and weapons school in the world”. As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1992, “it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind”.

Article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47 by Sergey Vekhov)


Jane’s International Defense (June 24, 1998)
The PAF, although outnumbered by IAF, has at least one qualitative edge over its rival: Pilot Training. The caliber of Pakistani instructors is acknowledged by numerous air forces, and US Navy pilots considered them to be highly ‘professionals’ during exercises flying off the USS Constellation (as co-pilots). The IAF is in an unfortunate position: it lacks an advanced training (and multi-role combat aircraft)


Pakistan Air Force.
“One of Asia’s most competent air arms…”

(World Air Power Journal, Vol 6 Summer 1991)


On Eagles’ Wings
“He was a formidable fellow and I was glad that he was Pakistani and not Egyptian”

(Israel Air Force chief Ezer Weizmen writing about PAF chief Nur Khan in his autobiography, On Eagles’ Wings).

 

[mundaus]

Continued from previous post....

Indian Express Nov 18, 2008

According to a US pilot,"India’s most modern aircraft, the SU 30 MKI, had performed poorly in comparison with its US counterparts." He also said the Indian pilots suffered from a high fratricide rate, the term used for friendly kills, and had problems with the Sukhoi engines that were vulnerable to foreign object damage.


About Su-30MKI Red Flag
Aviation Week, Nov5, 2008
Against the much larger RCS Su-30MKI, the F-16s and F-15s won consistently during the first three days of air-to-air combat, he continues. However, that was the result of trying to immediately go into a post-stall, thrust-vectored turn when attacked. The turn then creates massive drag and the aircraft starts sinking and losing altitude. "It starts dropping so fast you don't have to go vertical [first]. The low-speed tail slide allowed the U.S. aircraft to dive from above and "get one chance to come down to shoot," the pilot says. "You go to guns and drill his brains out." The Su-30 is jamming your missiles so...you go to guns and drill his brains out."

 

[Bull]

PAF is definitly potent force, with JF17 and J10 joining they will become even more.

 

[Hasnain2009]

“He was a formidable fellow and I was glad that he was Pakistani and not Egyptian”

 

[chindit]

For Indian war planners, the PAF is their worst fear.

what really?

F-16 CAPs could not have been flown all day long as spares support was limited under the prevailing US sanctions. Random CAPs were resorted to, with a noticeable drop in border violations only as long as the F-16s were on station. There were a few cases of F-16s and Mirage-2000s locking their adversaries with the on-board radars but caution usually prevailed and no close encounters took place. After one week of CAPs, the F-16 maintenance personnel indicated that war reserve spares were being eaten into and that the activity had to be ‘rationalised’, a euphemism for discontinuing it altogether. That an impending war occupied the Air Staff’s minds was evident in the decision by the DCAS (Ops) for F-16 CAPs to be discontinued, unless IAF activity became unbearably provocative or threatening.

Those not aware of the gravity of the F-16 operability problem under sanctions have complained of the PAF’s lack of cooperation. Suffice it to say that if the PAF had been included in the initial planning, this anomaly (along with many others) would have emerged as a mitigating factor against the Kargil adventure. It is another matter that the Army high command did not envisage operations ever coming to such a pass. Now, it was almost as if the PAF was to blame for the Kargil venture spiralling out of control.

It also must be noted too that other than F-16s, the PAF did not have a capable enough fighter for patrolling, as the minimum requirement in this scenario was an on-board airborne intercept radar, exceptional agility and sufficient staying power. F-7s had reasonably good manoeuvrability but lacked an intercept radar as well as endurance, while the ground attack Mirage-III/5s and A-5s were sitting ducks for the air combat mission.

In sum, the PAF found it expedient not to worry too much about minor border violations and instead, conserve resources for the larger conflagration that was looming. All the same it gave the enemy no pretext for for retaliation in the face of any provocation,,"Not provoking enemy" - HURRAY WHAT AN ACHIVEMENT though this latter stance irked some quarters in the Army that were desperate to ‘equal the match’. Might it strike to some that PAF’s restraint in warding off a major conflagration may have been its paramount contribution to the Kargil conflict?

 

[TOPGUN]

Pakistan airforce is second to none ! point blank take it or leave it ! furthermore, i dont agree with disrespecting ones nation or there armed forces but hence disrespect given for will not be tolerated i ask fellow members to stop these kind of threads that cause tension here and for my indian friends if u cant come in peace and respect here then u have no place here PAF has its place and iam sure IAF has its place end of this damn story!

 

[mundaus]

Pakistan airforce is second to none ! point blank take it or leave it ! furthermore, i dont agree with disrespecting ones nation or there armed forces but hence disrespect given for will not be tolerated i ask fellow members to stop these kind of threads that cause tension here and for my indian friends if u cant come in peace and respect here then u have no place here PAF has its place and iam sure IAF has its place end of this damn story!

I feel it's a Pakistani forum and for PAF and we are at liberty to discuss PAF's capabilities, shortcomings, and comparison to our friends and foes. Indians are most welcome here but we are not here to cater their feelings.

Having said that, if most members feel, then I don't have a problem in closing this thread.

 

[mundaus]

what really?

Well that's a known fact about US embargo and it did cause some hardship for PAF.

However, at the same time, IAF with all the things going it's way performed so poorly in Kargil that soon after Kargil, both the commander-in-chief and senior air staff officer of the Western Air Command were mysteriously transferred to the Central and Eastern commands. I hope you have the answer? The IAF claimed to have flown 550 sorties in Kargil, though just about 80 were on or close to the target.

Operations in this terrain required special training and tactics and IAF realised soon that it lacked that greater skills and training.

In the process an IAF Canberra recce aircraft was damaged by a Pakistani Stinger fired possibly from across the LoC. On the second and third day of the operations, still in the learning curve, the IAF lost one MiG-21 fighter and one Mi-17 helicopter to shoulder-fired missiles by the enemy. On May 27, the MiG-27 flown by Flt Lt Nachiketa, while attacking a target in Batalik sector, developed an engine trouble and he had to bailout. Sqn Ldr Ajay Ahuja, in a MiG-2l, went out of the way to locate the downed pilot and in the process was hit by a Pakistani surface- to-air missile (SAM). And all this happened without the involvement of PAF. Lucky IAF!

 

[PAFAce]

There is absolutely no need for me to justify myself to someone who does not understand the difference between 'intelligent argument' and 'ganging up to diss another country', but I will do so anyway.

The purpose of this forum is to have a meaningful and intelligent discussion on topics related to PAF and other air forces as compared to just copying news from the media and starting the threads (examples: Red Flag 2009, Russia Admits China Illegally Copied Its Fighter). Everyone reads the news and aware of those articles (I am guilty of that too) and I find it useless to print those articles. So please look before you speak.

No, those threads you mention provoke intelligent discussion, unlike this one. "Copying" news from other sources, as you put it, is something that will certainly generate useful discussion because these are credible statements made by credible (usually) journalists. A statement like For Indian war planners, the PAF is their worst fear can never hope to generate meaningful discussion, not in a Pakistani defence forum at least. It is what you call a biased or loaded statement. Moreover, these statements reflect poorly on the maturity level of the person making them. If you go and look at those threads you mentioned, I think you'll see that they have not deteriorated into garbage flinging, as is clearly the case here.

If you don't like the topic, then just ignore it and don't read it. I always do the same.

Ofcourse that is what you want, a child never wants an adult to supervise him when he's doing something wrong. The reason I have a problem with threads like these is because there are just too many. There are so many things said on this forum that would get people banned in other places, and you are just trying to stretch the freedom the moderators provide you here to its limits.

Tell the readers the kind of topics you want in this forum?

That is not for me to decide. Something that would add to the knowledge without beating up another country with overly emotional posts.

 

[mundaus]

There is absolutely no need for me to justify myself to someone......

And you still went ahead to justify yourself. That's very intelligent?

The reason I have a problem with threads like these is because there are just too many.

It's not your job to pass the judgement on threads. Let the moderators make the call. Put up or leave.

That is not for me to decide. Something that would add to the knowledge without beating up another country with overly emotional posts.

So you are one of those who just like to crticize but have no solution. If you want to criticize then do have a solution. That's what intelligent people do.

 

[Jihad]

What's wrong with a little nationalistic pride? As long as it doesn't hurt anyone and we can openly talk why Indian war planners have to consider PAF's presence before planning their strategies.
I don't see any India bashing, so what's the big deal.
Pakistanis are allowed to boast about their own airforce, just like Indians are allowed to boast about theirs, and most of the time, it's the Indians who think they're superior towards us and our fleet of aircraft and personnel, so does it hurt if we had our share of talking about our beloved airforce?

I do agree that there used to be quite alot of threads regarding PAF and it's great pilots, but hey, these honorable men/women can never get enough respect, opening threads about them is the least we can do to show our gratefulness and our solidarity with these heroes.

 

[Contrarian]

Pointless thread.

You celebrate their duty towards Pakistan by saying 'PAF is the worst fear for Indian war planners' ? Thats frankly absurd.

There are better ways to express and better places to express such feelings and gratitude.

 

[chindit]

However, at the same time, IAF with all the things going it's way performed so poorly in Kargil that soon after Kargil, both the commander-in-chief and senior air staff officer of the Western Air Command were mysteriously transferred to the Central and Eastern commands.F!

Its routine. Commander in Chief of Western Air command got the highest war time award for leadership that india can offer. one of the only three to do so till now. Who was senior air staff officer? this is first time I am reaing the claim. names and sources please

 

[iceman2009]

I agree with the Thread Starter.

PAF is a world class highly trained Air force that is respected in the world and much feared by IAF war planners

" IF THE WAR WAS TO BE FOUGHT IN 1980 " wen F16 A/B was a brand new war plane and the ROSE MIRAGES where only 10 years old.

And yes we all know about the 250 JF17 & 100 J10 & 200 jxxx etc etc etc.

BUT LETS GET THE IMF loan of $12 billion sorted out first to help stabilze PAKS crumbling economy before we go shopping

 

[Super Falcon]

no way to close is and face the ground realities that indian airforcxe never ever gonna have air superiority even in their history because pakistan and chinese airforce are their neihbours even if you had good radars, fighter,interceptors,Sams you cannot get air superiority over the skies of south east asia examples are in december two fighter jets got in our air space and ran away because they fear from PAF and they dont have guts to face the music