FLASH-----M'bishi Heavy, Areva have won Turkish nuclear plant deal -Nikkei

[LegionnairE]

And where might we plan solar energy plants?
In the south east?
Its better to stick with wind energy in the northern regions where we know they will be ours forever.
You know the way its going so investing in the south east where there is sun wouldnt be feasable(my opinion)
The Russians were the first to respond to our call for nuclear energy,maybe thats why we let them first.
For western companies the turkish laws are not that easy untill now.

ANYWHERE... Germans are doing this in the north of 47th parallel, we have much more potential for solar power. Of course doing this in the south would be more efficient. I'd bıtchslap you for being so insecure about SE but whatever, this isn't the topic.

Russians didn't respond to an open call, there wasn't a tender or anything. We went to them with the offer, "first to respond" doesn't mean jack shıt. We could make this tender about two plants and Mitsubishi heavy industries Ltd. would win anyway.

 

[BordoEnes]

I didn't direct my criticism to anyone in particular. This is the whole country's problem. We've been producing electricity with Russian gas, now telling Russians to come and open a nuclear plant so we can keep buying energy from them is idiotic. I don't remember any event quite familiar like this in Turkey's history.

on the other hand if we have to build nuclear plants, buying the latest technology Japanese design is the best way to go. I'll still criticize our lack of investment in solar power.

Nicely said, Isnt there any possibility of Turkey buying the plant in the future?

 

[LegionnairE]

Nicely said, Isnt there any possibility of Turkey buying the plant in the future?

Maybe, but why would Russians be willing to sell such a strategic asset that generates a steady income?
We should be reducing our dependency on Russia not extending it.

 

[BordoEnes]

Maybe, but why would Russians be willing to sell such a strategic asset that generates a steady income?
We should be reducing our dependency on Russia not extending it.

Ofcourse, Letting Russia built a power plant was indeed ridicilous, Politicily we arent exactly going hand-in-hand nicely.

We should built one of them plants that uses the heat of the earth to produce electricity, Anybody remembers what the concept it called? Tottaly forgat but still an ingenius concept.

EDIT: Found it, Geothermal power plants, Using earths crust heat to generate electricity.

We should built a couple of these.

 

[LegionnairE]

We should built one of them plants that uses the heat of the earth to produce electricity, Anybody remembers what the concept it called? Tottaly forgat but still an ingenius concept.

Geothermal electricity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Volcanic countries are more suitble for this, however we still have some potential.

We could've lagged behind nuclear technologies, I'd understand it. But we do have nuclear scientists and engineers to pull this off ourselves. We just need to organize, there aren't many energy companies in Turkey. Why not?

Like that other case that we have one of the largest automotive industries without having a major brand.
We need initiative.
If i had the resources I'd totally do it myself. Unfortunately, people with money don't have the vision.

Solar panels aren't so expensive, new polymer solar cells show great promise. We can do our own R&D

At the moment, an open question is to what degree polymer solar cells can commercially compete with silicon solar cells and the other thin-film cells. The silicon solar cell industry has the important industrial advantage of being able to leverage the infrastructure developed for the computer industry. Besides, the present efficiency of polymer solar cells lies near 10%, much below the value for silicon cells. Polymer solar cells also suffer from environmental degradation owing the lack of effective protective coatings.
Further improvements in performance are needed to promote charge carrier diffusion; transport must be enhanced through control of order and morphology; and interface engineering must be applied to the problem of charge transfer across interfaces. Novel molecular chemistries and materials offer hope for revolutionary, rather than evolutionary, breakthroughs in future device efficiencies.

We can replace all thermal(gas, coal) plants with solar fields and after developing to the peak efficiency we can build thorium plants. We don't have to go through with this shıt.

 

[Audio]

Thorium is not quite ready. 2008 study:

"A power producing ADS using thorium may become a reality, but it is not reasonable to expect this to happen in the next 30 years. Much research and development remains to be done, especially in the fields of accelerator technology and material properties."

http://www.regjeringen.no/upload/OED/Rapporter/ThoriumReport2008.pdf

On this time scale, fusion reactor looks to be more realistic.

As for the topic: Does anyone know work shares in the project between Mitsubishi and Areva?

 

[LegionnairE]

Thorium is not quite ready. 2008 study:
On this time scale, fusion reactor looks to be more realistic.

We don't quite need these plants yet, current infrastructure is more or less capable of providing the energy we need for now. We have enough time to R&D. It doesn't have to be Thorium, IV. generation uranium plants will be also very safe and efficient. We just need to channel our time and resources to R&D instead of direct procurement.

 

[Yuuki]

Nuclear power plants can generate electricity "24/7" for many months at a time, without interruption. Nuclear generation is one of the safest and least environmentally damaging forms of electricity generation.

Renewables
Renewables such as wind, solar and small scale hydro produce electricity with no greenhouse gas emissions at the point of generation and very low amounts of greenhouse gas emissions across their entire lifecycle.
The cost of electricity generation from many renewables tends to be higher than other forms of generation, often requiring subsidies to compete with other forms of generation, although these costs are coming down.
Many renewables do not produce electricity predictably or consistently. Electricity generation from wind turbines varies with the wind speed, and if that wind is too weak or too strong no electricity is produced at all. The output of solar panels is reliant on the strength of the sunshine, which depends on the time of day and the amount of cloud cover. This means that renewables have to be backed up by other forms of electricity generation, often fossil fuel generation with their resultant greenhouse gas emissions.
Electricity generation - what are the options?

For 24/7(8000 hours/year), Nuclear or Gas or Coal.
For 2200 hours/year, renewable.

$111 per barrel in 2011

 

[T-123456]

ANYWHERE... Germans are doing this in the north of 47th parallel, we have much more potential for solar power. Of course doing this in the south would be more efficient. I'd bıtchslap you for being so insecure about SE but whatever, this isn't the topic.

Russians didn't respond to an open call, there wasn't a tender or anything. We went to them with the offer, "first to respond" doesn't mean jack shıt. We could make this tender about two plants and Mitsubishi heavy industries Ltd. would win anyway.

Maybe this will explain some of the difficulties of Turkish Nuclear tender.

The Definition of Insanity: Turkey’s Nuclear Tenders | Turkey Wonk: Nuclear and Political Musings in Turkey and Beyond

 

[LegionnairE]

Maybe this will explain some of the difficulties of Turkish Nuclear tender.

The Definition of Insanity: Turkey’s Nuclear Tenders | Turkey Wonk: Nuclear and Political Musings in Turkey and Beyond

Just let them build and transfer FFS. What the fvck kind of a state is this, if it can't even pay for construction of a power plant.

 

[-SINAN-]

Turkey dismayed at lack of US partnership on second nuclear plant: Minister

Turkey expected to form a partnership with the United States to build Turkey’s second planned nuclear plant, Energy Minister Tamer Yıldız told daily Hürriyet in an interview published April 6.

“If I don’t build the nuclear plant with the U.S., which strategic project will I do? Will I sell tomatoes and peppers?” Yıldız said, adding that Turkey had made a proposition to the “highest officials” in Washington about participating in the tender.

“They told us that the project was not feasible. It may not be feasible, but it is strategic. [Making] this strategic contribution falls upon Washington,” he said.

China and a Japanese-French joint venture are competing to build the plant, which will be located in the Black Sea province of Sinop, Yıldız said April 4. The first plant in Akkuyu, in the Mediterranean province of Mersin, will be constructed by Russia’s Rosatom company.

“Not making an offer for this project means not [giving the real meaning] to the model partnership. I would really have wished that the U.S. were part of it. I don’t reproach the model partnership; I reproach not giving it its meaning. If we don’t do a 22 billion-dollar project with the U.S., what project will we do?” Yıldız asked.

The energy minister also said Turkey could not be accused of being too dependent on Russia regarding its energy policy. “Those who say that should bring us an alternative. I cannot wait. The U.S. is not [cooperating]. We are not Iran, we are open to offers,” he said.

ENERGY - Turkey dismayed at lack of US partnership on second nuclear plant: Minister

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Guys I have a question, if the Akkuyu site gets built and becomes operational. How much electricity will it produce in a year? How much percent would that be of the total of the 2012 numbers which is 57.072 MW (posted on page 1)?

I remember reading the yearly potential, but I can't remember where I read it so I'm not able to find it.

 

[-SINAN-]

At 2010, 212 Billion kWh electricity produced in Turkey.

Akkuyu site with its 4.800 MWe power capacity,will produce 40 billion kWh (%19 of current production).

There will be a 8 billion m3 decline in natural gas import, which will save $3,6 billion annually.

http://www.enerji.gov.tr/yayinlar_raporlar/Nukleer_Santraller_ve_Ulkemizde_Kurulacak_Nukleer_Santrale_Iliskin_Bilgiler.pdf

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

At 2010, 212 Billion kWh electricity produced in Turkey.

Akkuyu site with its 4.800 MWe power capacity,will produce 40 billion kWh (%19 of current production).

There will be a 8 billion m3 decline in natural gas import, which will save $3,6 billion annually.

http://www.enerji.gov.tr/yayinlar_raporlar/Nukleer_Santraller_ve_Ulkemizde_Kurulacak_Nukleer_Santrale_Iliskin_Bilgiler.pdf

Allright, so we need another one of these to reduce gas imports for electricity purposes in almost it's entirety (in theory at least). Maybe another one would be needed if you consider the annual growth of Turkey's power demands and to reduce coal imports.

Other than that, they should just invest in green energy like wind and solar. I'm glad that they are investing in wind energy, and the power produced with wind energy did go up in 2012 compared to 2011, hopefully they will keep up this trend. A bit disappointed that there is no attention to Solar power in Turkey.

Hopefully they will go through with this solar power plant:
Europe’s Biggest Solar Farm To Be Built In Turkey | Green Prophet
The news story is from 2011 though, so I wonder in what stage it is. Hopefully it's cancelled.
And Turkey really needs to change their stance on subsidizing energy projects.

When it comes to the tender for the second nuclear power plant. I hope it goes to the Japanese-French consortium instead of the Chinese one. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the Chinese, but they aren't able to export the newest in Nuclear energy so I just hope the Turkish government agrees to subsidize and chooses Mitsubishi-Areva consortium with transfer of technology.

Edit:
About the Akkuyu sites capacity. Didn't Turkey agree to only buy half of the capacity?

 

[Yuuki]

Not: Bir önceki mesajım daki 2003 maliyet grafiğine dikkat etmemiş olanlar için açıklayayım.
gas fuel cost: 2.34 cent/kwh ($25 per barrel in 2003) and nuclear fuel cost: 0.27 cent/kwh
gas total cost: 3.92 cent/kwh ($25 per barrel in 2003) and nuclear total cost: 2.37 cent/kwh
$111 per barrel in 2011, gas fuel cost x cent/kwh in 2011?
x=2.34*4.5= 10.53 cent/kwh gas fuel cost in 2011

Nükleer üniversite geliyor
20 yıl içinde yerli nükleer santral kurabilecek seviyeye gelme hedefi koyan Türkiye, bu alanda enerji üniversitesi kurmak için de kolları sıvadı

Türkiye nükleer enerjide yeni stratejisini belirledi. Hedef 20 yıl içinde tamamen yerli nükleer santral kurabilecek seviyeye gelmek. Bunun için ilk adım olarak ikinci nükleer santral ile birlikte nükleer enerji üniversitesi kurulacak. Böylece Türkiye sadece nükleer teknolojiye değil nükleer bilgi ve kültürüne de sahip olacak. Enerji Bakanlığı ikinci nükleer santral müzakereleri kapsamında üniversite kurulması için Japonya'ya da Çin'e de teklifini iletirken iki ülkenin cevabı da olumlu oldu. İkinci nükleer santral ile birlikte bu alanda teknoloji ve bilgi açısından donanımlı bir için de düğmeye basılmış olacak. Üniversitenin teknolojisi nükleer santrali kuracak ülke tarafından sağlanacak. Akademisyen kadrosunun üst seviyede olması için dünyada bu alanda isim yapmış akademisyenlere teklif götürülecek.

EÜAŞ ORTAK
Türkiye'nin nükleer enerji konusunda etkin ülke haline gelmesi açısından belirlenen stratejinin ikinci ayağını kamu kurumlarının nükleerde tecrübe sahibi olması oluşturuyor. Özellikle nükleer santral işletiminde tecrübeye büyük önem veren hükümet, ikinci nükleer santrale Elektrik Üretim AŞ'yi (EÜA&#350 ortak edecek. Ortalık oranı düşük tutularak risk maliyetinin önüne geçilecek. EÜAŞ'ın ikinci nükleerle tecrübe kazanmaya başlamasının ardından bu kez üçüncü nükleerde daha fazla oranda ortaklık için adım atılacak. Böylece risk yönetimi açısından da tecrübe kazanılarak bu alanda donanımlı bir kadro kurulmuş olacak. Nükleer hamlesinin üçüncü adımı ise Mayıs ayında atılacak.
Nükleer üniversite geliyor
'Nükleer santraller tüketiciyi rahatlatıyor'