First Sikh Army Officer

[Viper0011.]

You don't seem to understand, Paksitan by name is the Islamic republic of Pakistan. It was carved out of India as a place for the Sub-continent's Muslims and its constitution reflects this. Whilst in India the constitution from day one defined India as a secular nation free for all Indians to do as they pleased, Pakistan never had such equality for all its citizens. Today the constitution of Pakistan prevents Pakistanis who aren't Muslim from attaining many senior posts- PM, President etc.

Oh PLEASE. Spare me the anti-Islam B.S. If Pakistan was built on Islamic values...India was running on Hindu values, the secular B.S is good for tv shows and the newspaper and for people who don't know the internals of the Indian society. India STILL TODAY runs on Hindu rules. You just elected a Prime Minister who's barbarically supported killings of hundreds of minorities. When he was a Chief Minister of Gujrat, he had direct connections with Hindu nationalists and they ensured the minorities (Christians and Muslims) were persecuted to death in large numbers, their Churches and Mosques burnt with people in them, some in front of the Police and Military. Not a DAM*N thing was done to protect any of it.

Let's stick to the conversation and facts. You guys don't let ONE opportunity go by without turning the discussion into anti-Islam. To me, Talibans and RSS-Shiv Sena are both terrorists at the same level in a different "Dress Code" and in different religions. Both kill people that don't believe in their religion and are intolerant of others.

Back to the topic, there are many minorities serving in the Pak military. I'd give them credit where they deserve. The PAF is one of the very very few air forces where Women server as officers and fly combat missions, and they've appointed Christians and Hindus overseeing large strategically important programs and in leadership roles.
My issue here with this post wasn't that they were lacking in it, it was that even the Pakistan citizens don't know if they have so many minorities serving in their military with equal rights. If a minority can't be a Prime Minister or the President, that's old school and it should be changed as not matter who you are, if you are a citizen of any country and qualify, you should run for any office.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Well if you can't understand this mentality then ask any Muslim Indian soldier about it? Why are you questioning @orangzaib about it?

It's entirely different- all minorities in India- Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Christians, Jains etc are protected by the Indian constitution and can serve in any office they like. The Same is not the case for Pakistan. All I was saying is that I would find it hard to motivate myself to fight for a nation where I was legally barred from entering certain offices and would be troubled signing up to protect a constitution that didn't give me the same rights as my fellow countrymen.

 

[Viper0011.]

It's entirely different- all minorities in India- Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Christians, Jains etc are protected by the Indian constitution and can serve in any office they like.

These "minorities" can't sleep safely in India (inside their country in their own home)...does it matter what "level" they can "serve" as if at the end of the day a Christian or Muslim officer might get killed along with his family by religious-crazy Hindus that show up at night and burn down the house with people in it????

Go ask a Muslim army officer how difficult it is to rent a rental apartment if you are a Muslim family in India......your constitute needs to guarantee safety, protection and welfare of your minorities. Not just allowing people to serve in the military!

 

[Abingdonboy]

You just elected a Prime Minister who's barbarically supported killings of hundreds of minorities.

Firstly he was cleared of all wrongdoing by India's highest courts so don't give me that nonsense that he is "the world's most wanted terrorist" and such.

Secondly the PM before him (one for the longest serving in India's history) was a minority a SIKH, could a Pakistani Sikh become the Pakistani President? You and I both know he couldn't.

Spare me the anti-Islam B.S.

None of it was meant to be anti-Islamic, not in the slightest.

India was running on Hindu values

Utter nonsense. India by its constitution is a secular nation. End of story. I don't have to give you examples of minorities in India attaining senior ranks minorities in Pakistan are LEGALLY BARRED from attaining.

the secular B.S is good for tv shows and the newspaper

Riiiight, shows how much you know about India.

end of the day a Christian or Muslim officer might get killed along with his family by religious-crazy Hindus that show up at night and burn down the house with people in it????

What in God's name are you talking about? Is this a day to day occurrence in India? You and I both know these are isolated cases so please keep such nonsense to yourself.

 

[Areesh]

It's entirely different- all minorities in India- Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Christians, Jains etc are protected by the Indian constitution and can serve in any office they like. The Same is not the case for Pakistan. All I was saying is that I would find it hard to motivate myself to fight for a nation where I was legally barred from entering certain offices and would be troubled signing up to protect a constitution that didn't give me the same rights as my fellow countrymen.

Indian muslim would also find it hard to get motivated to fight for a country who has elected the mass murder of his community as head of the state. It is worst than anything else in Pakistan.

 

[Rafi]

Firstly he was cleared of all wrongdoing by India's highest courts so don't give me that nonsense that he is "the world's most wanted terrorist" and such.

Secondly the PM before him (one for the longest serving in India's history) was a minority a SIKH, could a Pakistani Sikh become the Pakistani President? You and I both know he couldn't.



None of it was meant to be anti-Islamic, not in the slightest.





Utter nonsense. India by its constitution is a secular nation. End of story. I don't have to give you examples of minorities in India attaining senior ranks minorities in Pakistan are LEGALLY BARRED from attaining.


Riiiight, shows how much you know about India.


What in God's name are you talking about? Is this a day to day occurrence in India? You and I both know these are isolated cases so please keep such nonsense to yourself.

It happened in '84 many Sikh soldiers on leave were lynched by the mob, some Sikhs on duty on the border, received information regarding their loved ones being killed.

Air Commodore Perci Edul Virjee Parsi Officer - he is the head of the strategic AWACS programme of the Air Force,.
Wing Commander Ronald Afzal - Christian Officer one of the most important persons in the JF17 Project.

 

[Thirdfront]

Well if you can't understand this mentality then ask any Muslim Indian soldier about it? Why are you questioning @orangzaib about it?



It is actually you are confused about what you want to be? A secular state or a hindu nationalist state. This confusion exists in your military too. With so much religious references I am pretty sure any muslim soldier would feel extremely uncomfortable in working in Indian military. PA can keep its motto as motto can be interpreted in several manners unlike open religious references which exist in Indian army.

Lol.... I just gave you tons of example where a Muslim would not have to do anything against his/her belief. It is actually PA which is confused..... whether to have non-Muslims or project themself as Islamic army...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

It happened in '84 many Sikh soldiers on leave were lynched by the mob, some Sikhs on duty on the border, received information regarding their loved ones being killed.

Air Commodore Perci Edul Virjee Parsi Officer - he is the head of the strategic AWACS programme of the Air Force,.
Wing Commander Ronald Afzal - Christian Officer one of the most important persons in the JF17 Project.

here is another serving: General Noel Israel--- Director General Institute for Strategic Studies Research and Analysis

(we have 4 seving general officers from the Christian community)...!

 

[Multani]

The first Sikh officer in Pak Army (infantry), Capt Harcharan Singh, is now an ADC to a Corps Commander

Excellent News.....

https://twitter.com/x/status/472374257675026432

very nice to see. Pakistani Sikhs are among the bravest and nicest people i have seen. ma sha Allah

 

[Multani]

Congratulations brother.

Hope you don't indulge in financial corruption as your bosses do.

Hope you prove to be better than the so-called 'chosen' commission jernails!

When I have kids I am gonna tell them the story of "Ali Baba aur 400 Jernails"

thank you for being honest

With no offense to you, why many Pakistani members from UK are so stupid?

the UK Pakistanis are much smarter than the ones from North America. However, she has asked a question not appropriate for this thread, and not even appropriate to discuss anyways

if he gets killed then he is a hero.

"shaheed" is an Arabic word, which for a muslim has specific meaning @AmnaR

In case you didn't notice.. I was being sarcastic for the religious nutjobs who think we are "Islam ka Qila".. shaheedi army etc

I say Sub Sa Pehlay Pakistan!!

Pakistan is certainly an Islam ka Qila. Its an Islamic land, with non-Muslim minorities.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

very nice to see. Pakistani Sikhs are among the bravest and nicest people i have seen. ma sha Allah

He isnt the only sikh soldier.. he was one in 2005 when he joined the army.. today there are thousands .. even in Rangers..

 

[Multani]

Please don't mislead the forum. What is PA's motto?? That is right "Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah (A follower of none but Allah, The fear of Allah, Jihad for Allah.)". How can minority feel they are welcome in PA? In the same note, how come PAis recruiting against it'sown motto???

you don't make sense, but you do make sense of indian propaganda

 

[Thirdfront]

you don't make sense, but you do make sense of indian propaganda

Off-course... when did anything logical make sense to you???

 

[Viper0011.]

Firstly he was cleared of all wrongdoing by India's highest courts so don't give me that nonsense that he is "the world's most wanted terrorist" and such.
Utter nonsense. India by its constitution is a secular nation. End of story. I don't have to give you examples of minorities in India attaining senior ranks minorities in Pakistan are LEGALLY BARRED from attaining.

The Ultra Highest Court also included members from RSS - BJP - Shiv Sena. You do know that going against these guys pretty much means you ain't no Hindu right? Look how many people elected this morong.

Where was the Ultra highest court when the Churches and Mosques were getting destroyed with your police and military present? Oh wait, the police and the military is ALSO a part of the Shiv Sena, RSS and BJP's of the world. What's more dangerous? A terrorist with a grenade in his hand open around 10 civilians or a Terrorist with power of Nucs and one of the largest militaries who's used his powers before to support killings of minorities.....??? The later one.

Last, I don't care about Pakistan. This wasn't a vs. thread. Don't make it so either. If their constitutes restricts a Sikh becoming a PM, that's a shame as the minorities should be allowed to do whatever they want to. But on the other hand, if a Sikh or a Muslim or a Christian doesn't become a PM in Pakistan but can live safely with his family but risks getting burnt in his house in India......then I'd rather be safe then being a PM and not being able to protect your citizens.

 

[jaunty]

The Ultra Highest Court also included members from RSS - BJP - Shiv Sena. You do know that going against these guys pretty much means you ain't no Hindu right? Look how many people elected this morong.

Where was the Ultra highest court when the Churches and Mosques were getting destroyed with your police and military present? Oh wait, the police and the military is ALSO a part of the Shiv Sena, RSS and BJP's of the world. What's more dangerous? A terrorist with a grenade in his hand open around 10 civilians or a Terrorist with power of Nucs and one of the largest militaries who's used his powers before to support killings of minorities.....??? The later one.

Last, I don't care about Pakistan. This wasn't a vs. thread. Don't make it so either. If their constitutes restricts a Sikh becoming a PM, that's a shame as the minorities should be allowed to do whatever they want to. But on the other hand, if a Sikh or a Muslim or a Christian doesn't become a PM in Pakistan but can live safely with his family but risks getting burnt in his house in India......then I'd rather be safe then being a PM and not being able to protect your citizens.

There is no point in pretending that you are not a Pakistani Aurangzeb. That doesn't fool anyone here. That post is straight from the Pakistani madrassah education. No one else in the world would write that crap.