First Scorpene Submarine by 2015

[arp2041]

@sancho do you not agree that within the IN there are conflicting mindsets vis a vis the ACC vs Sub debate. This has lead to the failure to order subs in any meaningful numbers. This debate has only recently been settled because the IN now has funds to go down both paths simultaneously. The coming decade could see the induction of upto 20+ Subs if not more as well as 2-3 ACCs.

Let me answer that abing, IN from the start was given a very low budget (cyndrella service tag) & our great first PM Nehru said that subs are a lethal weapon for a Gandhian country like India & should not at all be used, those were the days when IN got INS Vikrant from Royal Navy on easy terms & IN made it's doctrine around AC & CBG & didn't consider Subs of any use in Indian context. It was only after the loss of 1962 & stalemate of 1965 war + PN inducting it's first sub that IN (read Indian Political leadership) decided to go for subs, but still the budget of IN was low + top leadership of IN were always from the surface fleet, this favored the induction of ACs rather than subs.

But in recent times, as the more money is flowing from Delhi & IN leadership now has a balance of both surface fleet officer's & under water fleet officer's, so there is a change of heart in the IN coupled with growing understanding among our rulers that India needs to project it's power over a wide oceanic area, thus for that IN is going for both subs + ACs & in couple of decades IN has plans to induct 30+ subs & at least 3 ACs.

Interesting read:

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/n-subs-india-debates-china-struggles/406696/

 

[sancho]

@sancho do you not agree that within the IN there are conflicting mindsets vis a vis the ACC vs Sub debate. This has lead to the failure to order subs in any meaningful numbers. This debate has only recently been settled because the IN now has funds to go down both paths simultaneously. The coming decade could see the induction of upto 20+ Subs if not more as well as 2-3 ACCs.

There are disagreements for sure, one could also ask if it really was necessary to keep operating an aircraft carrier for so long, when it faces so many technical issues and even the fighters are not available in useful numbers.
However, we don't know what is going on and why decisions were taken, the Scorpene decision for example put us in disadvantage at SSKs, but might got some advantage for the development of our nuke subs as some say. We can only speculate on that, I only pointed out the operational/technical disadvantages we have because of these 2 decision.

Later guys, had to watch Soccer now!

 

[Bratva]

I don't understand but same thing happened with Pak Navy Agosta 90 Subs. They start inducted AIP in 3rd sub in 2010 and now second sub is in process of getting AIP. While agreement signed for AIP subs in 1994. First arrived in 1998, Second 2002 and third 2006 but AIP induction started in 2010.

Why AIP is not installed when Sub is in making?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't understand but same thing happened with Pak Navy Agosta 90 Subs. They start inducted AIP in 3rd sub in 2010 and now second sub is in process of getting AIP. While agreement signed for AIP subs in 1994. First arrived in 1998, Second 2002 and third 2006 but AIP induction started in 2010.

Why AIP is not installed when Sub is in making?

Given it is the PN I am guessing the delay is because of a lack of funds.

 

[sancho]

Given it is the PN I am guessing the delay is because of a lack of funds.

It's more likely that their delay has to do with the fact that the MESMA AIP was just under development at that time and the Agostas are the first subs that got them at all. For Scorpene it was available only later and some say that IN didn't wanted an unproven technology at the begining.
However, AIP propulsion is just an additional capability, it is not the main propulsion and will be used only if the situation requires it. So, it's actually was silly not to procure the Scorpenes with AIP, even if it turned out that the propulsion had technical issues, it wouldn't had changed the performance much compared to what we get now from the Scorpenes.