Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw tribute to Pakistan Army

[Shinigami]

Watch the clip by the indian general manekshaw who participated in the 1971 war. He says india (and probably bangladesh combined) had an advantage of 15 to 1 against Pakistan. Odds that even america probably could not overcome.

he was talking about skirmishes in EAST PAKISTAN that took place where indian troops had a numerical advantage that went UPTO 15:1 (i believe he was including mukti bahini). the total india to pak troop ratio in EAST PAKISTAN would have been not more than 5:1.

i have been saying for a while here that even outnumbered by that much, it was possible to mount a defence for more than 2 weeks. but niazi must have been thoroughly demoralized to think straight when jfr jacob bluffed his *** off and got him to sign a surrender document

Ever heard about the one in which a country for nearly 50 years has been bragging about defeating a nation with limited resources that is about 8 times smaller than itself.....lol

if only... unfortunately no text books talk about it and most indians are unaware of this until they get internet access, which is a good thing now because a military op of this sophistication should never be forgotten

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

he was talking about skirmishes in EAST PAKISTAN that took place where indian troops had a numerical advantage that went UPTO 15:1 (i believe he was including mukti bahini). the total india to pak troop ratio in EAST PAKISTAN would have been not more than 5:1.

i have been saying for a while here that even outnumbered by that much, it was possible to mount a defence for more than 2 weeks. but niazi must have been thoroughly demoralized to think straight when jfr jacob bluffed his *** off and got him to sign a surrender document




if only... unfortunately no text books talk about it and most indians are unaware of this until they get internet access, which is a good thing now because a military op of this sophistication should never be forgotten

Searching for more excuses to brag about defeating a nation that is 8 times smaller than you, with limited resources and that had key weapons supplies embargoed by the americans.

 

[New World]

please tell me which part of what i wrote is classified under "Lies"

FM Sam says that Indian prepared for 9 months for this war..

 

[Shinigami]

Searching for more excuses to brag about defeating a nation that is 8 times smaller than you, with limited resources and that had key weapons supplies embargoed by the americans.

i give up...

FM Sam says that Indian prepared for 9 months for this war..

when did i ever deny that? this info is there even in wikipedia

 

[Maarkhoor]

In 1971 Pakistan was the only country in this world that have two parts 1500Kms away no land access, only long sea route available. While our enemy can engage us on two fronts, they have direct land access and can share resources on each fronts...Pakistan have to make tough choice to save one part so the wisely chosen west Pakistan which proves right choice...Once in an interview probably BBC journalist ask Mr. Manikshah that if he was in place of General A.A Khan Niazi what would he do or he could save Pakistan, Gen replied no even he would moved his assets long back would leave nothing for Bangladeshi or Indians, he would be the only person to surrender. Niazi played a gamble which resulted 90000 soldiers surrender.

 

[Hussain Farooqui]

Gen. Tiger Niazi had no option other than becoming a paper tiger.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Don't do that. It breaks indians' heart to hear the truth that Bangladesh wasn't a military victory (even Bharat Verma accepted that lol).

I bet bhartis will come about and say oh he is just being professional and nice blah blah... lol

As the general says...Pakistanis just had no chance because they were away from their base by thousands of miles, surrounded by enemies, fighting an internal civil war, and indians had a superiority of whooping 15:1 in various sector---YET, Pakistanis fought bravely and held indians on certain sectors for more than ten days.

well to be honest it was a military success as well after their covert war had cleared the path for them to dhaka . so nothing wrong in claiming it a military victory as well but mainly it was Indian covert war victory

 

[Rehan khan 1]

he was talking about skirmishes in EAST PAKISTAN that took place where indian troops had a numerical advantage that went UPTO 15:1 (i believe he was including mukti bahini). the total india to pak troop ratio in EAST PAKISTAN would have been not more than 5:1.

i have been saying for a while here that even outnumbered by that much, it was possible to mount a defence for more than 2 weeks. but niazi must have been thoroughly demoralized to think straight when jfr jacob bluffed his *** off and got him to sign a surrender document




if only... unfortunately no text books talk about it and most indians are unaware of this until they get internet access, which is a good thing now because a military op of this sophistication should never be forgotten

No he is talking about war. 350000 mukti bahni incuding 100000 regular indian troops + 400000 invasion force against 45000 regular and paramilitary of Pakistan.

 

[Shinigami]

No he is talking about war. 350000 mukti bahni incuding 100000 regular indian troops + 400000 invasion force against 45000 regular and paramilitary of Pakistan.

may i know where you got these numbers from?

 

[B+ Dracula]

Some BIG FACTS before start of 71 War....Undeniable facts favoring India

1. India Soviet sign friendship treaty for next 20 years....where they promised to defend each other asses in worst case scenario

2. India cut-off the Air route before the War ...All types of supply that include Civilian and non Civilian before WAR

3. Our Tiger Uncle ....was sent in BD to put down a rebellious like Situation not having to face an Armed Insurgency with added benefits of WAR

4. Our great ally USA put a bar on Weapons Supply to us....bcoz that serve no benefit to Uncle Sam in long term

5. Russia kept his word.....and poured unrestrained Supply of weapon to India

6. CHINA refused to join the war with us....by saying that....if they choose to drop a Nuclear Bomb it will be directed towards Beijing not Rawalpindi

7. BD people did a wonderful job .....no need to talk about it

8. BD Soldiers working under Pakistan Army deserted us during the war...and provided all the necessary information to our Enemy ....about Base Camp movements , timings, Weapon depo etc etc

9. POLITICAL SCENARIO in BD was not favoring us at that time.....it can force me to say this....India took unnecessary advantage of Poltical Rift......we were at that time transforming from Military to Civilian Government ...but So called world biggest Democracy intervened ....and set a benchmark for pakistan to take back Kashmir like the same way we did to you

10. MAHA BHARAT which was equipped from bottom to tooth device a Clever strategy to separate our Eastern wing and that strategy took 9 months of war preparation before FINAL SHOW....in the above interview Manekshaw explained every bit of it

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Some BIG FACTS before start of 71 War....Undeniable facts favoring India

1. India Soviet sign friendship treaty for next 20 years....where they promised to defend each other asses in worst case scenario

2. India cut-off the Air route before the War ...All types of supply that include Civilian and non Civilian before WAR

3. Our Tiger Uncle ....was sent in BD to put down a rebellious like Situation not having to face an Armed Insurgency with added benefits of WAR

4. Our great ally USA put a bar on Weapons Supply to us....bcoz that serve no benefit to Uncle Sam in long term

5. Russia kept his word.....and poured unrestrained Supply of weapon to India

6. CHINA refused to join the war with us....by saying that....if they choose to drop a Nuclear Bomb it will be directed towards Beijing not Rawalpindi

7. BD people did a wonderful job .....no need to talk about it

8. BD Soldiers working under Pakistan Army deserted us during the war...and provided all the necessary information to our Enemy ....about Base Camp movements , timings, Weapon depo etc etc

9. POLITICAL SCENARIO in BD was not favoring us at that time.....it can force me to say this....India took unnecessary advantage of Poltical Rift......we were at that time transforming from Military to Civilian Government ...but So called world biggest Democracy intervened ....and set a benchmark for pakistan to take back Kashmir like the same way we did to you

10. MAHA BHARAT which was equipped from bottom to tooth device a Clever strategy to separate our Eastern wing and that strategy took 9 months of war preparation before FINAL SHOW....in the above interview Manekshaw explained every bit of it

Not to mention the fact that india is 7-8 times larger than Pakistan with an abundance of everything.

 

[asad71]

1. Those below are the Principles of War taught in all armed forces, including Pakistan's. The junta, military commanders and Yahya himself had been writing papers, lecturing and teaching these to PA officers at all level.

a. Selection and Maintenance of the Aim.

A single, unambiguous aim is the keystone of successful military operations. Selection and maintenance of the aim is regarded as the master principle of war.

b. Maintenance of Morale

Morale is a positive state of mind derived from inspired political and military leadership, a shared sense of purpose and values, well-being, perceptions of worth and group cohesion.

c. Offensive Action and Initiative

Offensive action is the practical way in which a commander seeks to gain advantage, sustain momentum and seize the initiative.

d. Security and Intelligence

Security is the provision and maintenance of an operating environment that affords the necessary freedom of action, when and where required, to achieve objectives.

e. Surprise and Deception

Surprise is the consequence of shock and confusion induced by the deliberate or incidental introduction of the unexpected.


f. Concentration of Force

Concentration of force involves the decisive, synchronized application of superior fighting power (conceptual, physical, and moral) to realize intended effects, when and where required.

g. Economy of Effort

Economy of effort is the judicious exploitation of manpower, materiel and time in relation to the achievement of objectives.

h. Flexibility

Flexibility – the ability to change readily to meet new circumstances – comprises agility, responsiveness, resilience, acuity and adaptability.

i. Cooperation

Cooperation entails the incorporation of teamwork and a sharing of dangers, burdens, risks and opportunities in every aspect of warfare.

j. Sustainability and Logistics

To sustain a force is to generate the means by which its fighting power and freedom of action are maintained.



2. Can you find even one Principle that these fools followed? I can't find any. They should have opted for a political resolution. They should have trusted Sheikh Mujib who was a patriot till the end.

 

[Apprentice]

Its really amazing how pakistanis can percieve an absolute defeat as their greatest victory. Hatts off to u

I am not sure if 1965 was a victory for Pakistan or not. But still considering all the factors, we did do well in it. Even Western media during the war couldn't resist the temptation to praise us.

1. Those below are the Principles of War taught in all armed forces, including Pakistan's. The junta, military commanders and Yahya themselves had themselves been writing papers, lecturing and teaching these to PA officers at all level.

a. Selection and Maintenance of the Aim.

A single, unambiguous aim is the keystone of successful military operations. Selection and maintenance of the aim is regarded as the master principle of war.

b. Maintenance of Morale

Morale is a positive state of mind derived from inspired political and military leadership, a shared sense of purpose and values, well-being, perceptions of worth and group cohesion.

c. Offensive Action and Initiative

Offensive action is the practical way in which a commander seeks to gain advantage, sustain momentum and seize the initiative.

d. Security and Intelligence

Security is the provision and maintenance of an operating environment that affords the necessary freedom of action, when and where required, to achieve objectives.

e. Surprise and Deception

Surprise is the consequence of shock and confusion induced by the deliberate or incidental introduction of the unexpected.


f. Concentration of Force

Concentration of force involves the decisive, synchronized application of superior fighting power (conceptual, physical, and moral) to realize intended effects, when and where required.

g. Economy of Effort

Economy of effort is the judicious exploitation of manpower, materiel and time in relation to the achievement of objectives.

h. Flexibility

Flexibility – the ability to change readily to meet new circumstances – comprises agility, responsiveness, resilience, acuity and adaptability.

i. Cooperation

Cooperation entails the incorporation of teamwork and a sharing of dangers, burdens, risks and opportunities in every aspect of warfare.

j. Sustainability and Logistics

To sustain a force is to generate the means by which its fighting power and freedom of action are maintained.



2. Can you find even one Principle that these fools followed? I can't find any. They should have opted for a political resolution. They should have trusted Sheikh Mujib who was a patriot till the end.

It was a great thing that Mujib did not become a Prime Minister.

A man with the judicial history he had (Agartala Case) should never be allowed to become PM. His rule would have meant effectively saying goodbye to NWFP and Balochistan.

I don't know why he was never executed. To get Pakistan's POW's back, Bhutto actually used Bengalis in Pakistani jails as a bargaining chip. He threatened to hold treason trials of Bengali prisoners if any war crimes trials were conducted, hence the 1974 Tripartite Agreement. IMO we should have held treason trials and given the death penalty to Mujib, even if any war crimes trials were held.

Patriots don't 't blackmail the centre with threats of secession if they aren't allowed to become Prime Minister

And the legality of the 1970 election was based on the Legal Framework Order (LFO), 1970. Article 20 of the LFO was heinously violated by Mujib's six points plan of a loose federation.

 

[Shinigami]

I am not sure if 1965 was a victory for Pakistan or not. But still considering all the factors, we did do well in it. Even Western media during the war couldn't resist the temptation to praise us.

many indians have said this before but i'll try one more time.

starting a war to capture kashmir and ending up successfully defending lahore by a hairs breadth is not victory.
victory is ticking the lines on your to-do list

 

[cerberus]

I am not sure if 1965 was a victory for Pakistan or not. But still considering all the factors, we did do well in it. Even Western media during the war couldn't resist the temptation to praise us.

Where you Got this Idea that Western Media Praised you "The Australian News Paper" Cutting is All you got When People Asked For Facts From Pakistani's

There have been several neutral assessments of the losses incurred by both India and Pakistan during the war. Most of these assessments agree that India had the upper hand over Pakistan when ceasefire was declared. Some of the neutral assessments are mentioned below —

• According to the Library of Congress Country Studies conducted by the Federal Research Division of the United States[19] –

The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy—on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.

• According to the Office of the Historian within the U.S Department of State:[106]

Conflict resumed again in early 1965, when Pakistani and Indian forces clashed over disputed territory along the border between the two nations. Hostilities intensified that August when the Pakistani army attempted to take Kashmir by force. The attempt to seize the state was unsuccessful, and the second India-Pakistan War reached a stalemate.

• 
  
  
  • BBC reported that the war served game changer in Pakistani politics,[101]

The defeat in the 1965 war led to the army's invincibility being challenged by an increasingly vocal opposition. This became a surge after his protege, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, deserted him and established the Pakistan People's Party.

• TIME magazine reported that India held 690 mi2 of Pakistan territory while Pakistan held 250 mi2 of Indian territory in Kashmir and Rajasthan. Additionally, Pakistan had lost almost half its armour temporarily.[97] The article further elaborates,

Severely mauled by the larger Indian armed forces, Pakistan could continue the fight only by teaming up with Red China and turning its back on the U.N.

Asia: Silent Guns, Wary Combatants - TIME

• 
  
  
  • Devin T. Hagerty wrote in his book "South Asia in world politics"[20] –

The invading Indian forces outfought their Pakistani counterparts and halted their attack on the outskirts of Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city. By the time United Nations intervened on September 22, Pakistan had suffered a clear defeat.

• 
  
  
  • English historian John Keay's "India: A History" provides a summary of the 1965 war[103] –

The 1965 Indo-Pak war lasted barely a month. Pakistan made gains in the Rajasthan desert but its main push against India's Jammu-Srinagar road link was repulsed and Indian tanks advanced to within a sight of Lahore. Both sides claimed victory but India had most to celebrate.

PS:If you a Genuine Researcher of History If Will Easily Find Out that Real Facts Are Some what Different What you Study in you State Manufactured Books