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Fed up with EU, Erdogan says Turkey could join Shanghai bloc

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Tresbon

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ReutersNovember 20, 2016

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - President Tayyip Erdogan was quoted on Sunday as saying that Turkey did not need to join the European Union "at all costs" and could instead become part of a security bloc dominated by China, Russia and Central Asian nations.

NATO member Turkey's prospects of joining the EU look more remote than ever after 11 years of negotiations. European leaders have been critical of its record on democratic freedoms, while Ankara has grown increasingly exasperated by what it sees as Western condescension.

"Turkey must feel at ease. It mustn't say 'for me it's the European Union at all costs'. That's my view," Erdogan was quoted by the Hurriyet newspaper as telling reporters on his plane on the way back from a visit to Pakistan and Uzbekistan.

"Why shouldn't Turkey be in the Shanghai Five? I said this to (Russian President) Mr Putin, to (Kazakh President) Nazarbayev, to those who are in the Shanghai Five now," he said.

"I hope that if there is a positive development there, I think if Turkey were to join the Shanghai Five, it will enable it to act with much greater ease."

China, Russia and four Central Asian nations -- Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan -- formed the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) in 2001 as a regional security bloc to fight threats posed by radical Islam and drug trafficking from neighboring Afghanistan.

Turkish membership of the SCO, which had initially not included Uzbekistan and been known as the Shanghai Five, would be likely to alarm Western allies and fellow NATO members.

Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan speak Turkic languages, and Ankara signed up in 2013 as a "dialogue partner" saying it shared "the same destiny" as members of the bloc.

Mongolia, India, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan are SCO observers, while Belarus, like Turkey, is a dialogue partner.

Dialogue partners are entitled to take part in ministerial-level and some other meetings of the SCO, but do not have voting rights.

Erdogan last week urged Turks to be patient until the end of the year over relations with Europe and said a referendum could be held on EU membership in 2017.

The EU is treading a fine line in relations with Turkey: it needs Ankara's continued help in curbing a huge flow of migrants, especially from Syria, but is alarmed by Turkey's crackdown on opponents since a failed coup attempt in July.

More than 110,000 people have been sacked or suspended since the abortive putsch, and some 36,000 arrested. Media outlets have also been shut down.

The government says the crackdown is justified by the gravity of the threat to the state from the events of July 15, in which more than 240 people were killed.

(Reporting by Daren Butler; Writing by Nick Tattersall; Editing by Keith Weir)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fed-eu-erdogan-says-turkey-could-join-shanghai-092151501.html
 
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Lets wait and see what will happen. I don't want us to abandon Europe, we are their neighbours, we are forced to get on with them. weather we like it or not
Doesn't mean we shouldn't be closer to Asia though.
 
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11 years of negotiation is not enough for you?
You will have to ask AKP that question. I don't want Turkey in EU. I actually don't want us in NATO,
I think what I mean to say is, we should stay neutral.
 
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Lets wait and see what will happen. I don't want us to abandon Europe, we are their neighbours, we are forced to get on with them. weather we like it or not
Doesn't mean we shouldn't be closer to Asia though.

Western European dont consider you as their kind. If you think you sit on the same level with them. You are utterly wrong.

Western European always see Turkey as 2nd tier. That is the fact proven despite Turkey economy is much better than Greece and yet Greece is still in EU.
 
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Western European dont consider you as their kind. If you think you sit on the same level with them. You are utterly wrong.

Western European always see Turkey as 2nd tier. That is the fact proven despite Turkey economy is much better than Greece and yet Greece is still in EU.
I don't think EU ever had any intention of us letting us in their little EU crap. nor do I feel Turkey genuinely wanted to be part of it either. (The whole bring back death penalty seems to prove my theory at least)
I don't want Turkey in EU, But, to be honest,we need closer relations with Europeans, we are dependent on their investments and tourism. Once we can replace it with Asian investment tourists etc, we shouldn't have a problem of abandoning them for good.
Don't think it's the right move now.
 
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I don't think EU ever had any intention of us letting us in their little EU crap. nor do I feel Turkey genuinely wanted to be part of it either. (The whole bring back death penalty seems to prove my theory at least)
I don't want Turkey in EU, But, to be honest,we need closer relations with Europeans, we are dependent on their investments and tourism. Once we can replace it with Asian investment tourists etc, we shouldn't have a problem of abandoning them for good.
Don't think it's the right move now.

It sounds like you want your cake and eat it too when the decision is abundantly clear: go West or go East, but you can't have both. The first decision to make is to exit NATO. Will Erdogan do it? Will the Turkish defense establishment let him do it?
 
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What Erdogan wants is not really important. He also wanted part of Syria and Iraq, and Assad to step down. He, in fact, wants many things at home and abroad.

So, it is not about what he suddenly wants. It is about what China wants. His questionable record is not lost to China.

His ethno-religious zealotry knows no limit. But his government is neither capable nor trustworthy.

China would shot itself in the foot if allowed such a government that has a very bloody record of ethno sectarian separatism and interventionism.
 
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It sounds like you want your cake and eat it too when the decision is abundantly clear: go West or go East, but you can't have both. The first decision to make is to exit NATO. Will Erdogan do it? Will the Turkish defense establishment let him do it?
Turkey will never join EU, i don't even think Erdogan wants this now. NATO is problematic, i don't see us leaving it anytime soon, but who knows. stranger things has happened.
I don't personally want to commit to either West of East, for now at least. Just stay neutral.
But, if u had to choose, it would be west, purely because we are closer to them geographically.
 
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Join the SCO, first to fight East Turkistan terrorism

The SCO is primarily centered on its member nations' Central Asian security-related concerns, often describing the main threats it confronts as being terrorism, separatism and extremism. However evidence is growing that its activities in the area of social development of its member states is increasing fast.

Eastern Turkistan Islamic Party : Since the September 11 attacks, the group has been designated as a terrorist organization by the European Union, Kyrgyzstan, (The Eastern Turkistan Islamic Party, Organization for Freeing Eastern Turkistan, and the Islamic Party of Turkistan were outlawed by Kyrgyzstan's Lenin District Court and its Supreme Court in November 2003). Kazakhstan, Russia, United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, China, and the United States, Pakistan outlawed the group. Its Syrian branch Turkistan Islamic Party in Syria is active in the Syrian Civil War.
 
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Turkey is the wild card. Turkey is not regarded as a reliable partner by neither Russia nor China. It does not offer strategic value or weight by itself. But, in the regional strategic context, it is still a meaningful chip.

It was probably one of the key remarks of the new century when President Putin said: "We were stabbed in the back," after Turkey shot down the Russian jet. This has certainly been noted by many, including all the people I talk to from China's academic and government circles.

Now most believe Turkey President Erdogan has very little commonality with the pragmatist and secular governance of China and Russia. It is therefore very interesting to watch how the SCO issue will progress. I am personally quite intrigued about China and Russia's approach to the issue.

As I said, Turkey wishes it or not does not matter. It is not that it holds a weight and they would be let in the moment they decide to join. It does not have such a sway. And it has lost a mountain of credibility over the past decade. For once, in the eyes of China and Russia, Turkey is the number enabler of the Syrian Crisis. I heard many prominent scholars arguing that taking out Turkey from the Syrian equation would be the only way to ensure a solution.

And, as everybody knows, the Syrian issue (or, the Arab Spring as a whole) has harmed Chinese and Russian interests considerably.

Thus, on the strategic plane, Iran appears to be a closer potential partner than Turkey, given that its foreign policy is more sound, predictable and looks eye to eye with that of China and Russia. I do not see what comprehensive strategic value Turkey participation would really add.

Central Asia is relatively more stable and protected from ethno-religious terrorism and separatism not thanks to Turkey, but despite of Turkey. Now it is easy to figure out how China and Russia decision makers feel about that.

Nonetheless, Turkey is the wild card. It can't be played as a chip, but it cannot be treated as a trump card. Perhaps the rule would be: "Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer." Especially if the enemy is weakened and hitting crazily left and right like a decapitated body.

@terranMarine , @Beast , @Kyle Sun , @Chinese-Dragon
 
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Turkey is the wild card. Turkey is not regarded as a reliable partner by neither Russia nor China. It does not strategic value or weight by itself. But, in the regional strategic context, it is still a meaningful chip.

It was probably one of the key remarks of the new century when President Putin said: "We were stabbed in the back," after Turkey shot down the Russian jet. This has certainly been noted by many, including all the people I talk to from China's academic and government circles.

Now most believe Turkey President Erdogan has very little commonality with the pragmatist and secular governance of China and Russia. It is therefore very interesting to watch how the SCO issue will progress. I am personally quite intrigued about China and Russia's approach to the issue.

As I said, Turkey wishes it or not does not matter. It is not that it holds a weight and they would be let in the moment they decide to join. It does not have such a sway. And it has lost a mountain of credibility over the past decade. For once, in the eyes of China and Russia, Turkey is the number enabler of the Syrian Crisis. I heard many prominent scholars arguing that taking out Turkey from the Syrian equation would be the only way to ensure a solution.

And, as everybody knows, the Syrian issue (or, the Arab Spring as a whole) has harmed Chinese and Russian interests considerably.

Thus, on the strategic plane, Iran appears to be a closer potential partner than Turkey, given that its foreign policy is more sound, predictable and looks eye to eye with that of China and Russia. I do not see what comprehensive strategic value Turkey participation would really add.

Central Asia is relatively more stable and protected from ethno-religious terrorism and separatism not thanks to Turkey, but despite of Turkey. Now it is easy to figure out how China and Russia decision makers feel about that.

Nonetheless, Turkey is the wild card. It can't be played as a chip, but it cannot be treated as a trump card. Perhaps the rule would be: "Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer." Especially if the enemy is weakened and hitting crazily left and right like a decapitated body.

@terranMarine , @Beast , @Kyle Sun , @Chinese-Dragon
Central Asians are Turks and will always feel closer to their cousins than foreigners(Chinese).
That is why Russia is always smart to keep Turkey close , unlike China. :lol:
Russia wins Central Asians, they won't be calling them terrorists , instead, they look to work with them, unlike Chinese, you are going to have to look elsewhere .
Russia and Turkey wins Central Asia. China will be kept out with that sort of mentality of yours.
Your choice. :wave:
 
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Central Asians are Turks and will always feel closer to their cousins than foreigners(Chinese).
That is why Russia is always smart to keep Turkey close , unlike China. :lol:
Russia wins Central Asians, they won't be calling them terrorists , instead, they look to work with them, unlike Chinese, you are going to have to look elsewhere .
Russia and Turkey wins Central Asia. China will be kept out with that sort of mentality of yours.
Your choice. :wave:


You are talking in future tense, have you noticed? The reality on the ground says otherwise.

Ethno-sectarianism does not work inside Turkey. It has failed you in Syria (despite that you put lots of money and effort to the sectarian war in that country). It is failing you in Iraq.

How do you even remotely anticipate they it will work in Central Asia?

But it is exactly this mentality that makes Turkey a liability, rather than an asset inside the SCO dominated by China.

Hence, you are now where you factually should exactly belong to: Economically, Europe; politically, the Middle East; and culturally, the Gulf.
 
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Lets wait and see what will happen. I don't want us to abandon Europe, we are their neighbours, we are forced to get on with them. weather we like it or not
Doesn't mean we shouldn't be closer to Asia though.
It's a fair and pragmatic view, I concur with that.
 
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Ethno-sectarianism does not work inside Turkey. It has failed you in Syria (despite that you put lots of money and effort to the sectarian war in that country). It is failing you in Iraq.

How do you even remotely anticipate they it will work in Central Asia?

But it is exactly this mentality that makes Turkey a liability, rather than an asset inside the SCO dominated by China.

Hence, you are now where you factually should exactly belong to: Economically, Europe; politically, the Middle East; and culturally, the Gulf.
You know nothing of Turkic/Turkish culture. Or even Gulf culture for that matter.
Central Asians feel close to Turks, err they are Turks. Your wishful dreaming of taking that away from us, will fail.
Russia and Turkey will always have influence in Central Asia. China will not have a chance with people like you around. They all love Uighurs too. lol

Turks are happy in Russia.
Turkics happy in Turkey too.
What about China?

I'd concentrate on Gulf, Iran, South Asia etc if I were you.

I really do not care for Syria. not our problem.
 
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