FATF Plenary Meeting Starts to Decide on Pakistan’s Removal from Grey List

[Reichsmarschall]

Does the population look like African populations to merit the amount of foreign aid it gets regularly?

I hope you'd also be asking Israelis this question.

 

[Patriot forever]

We hardly pay any tax

Pakistan in a base level is better then the rest of the subcontinent, we have good and bad like everyone else

But once someone spends time in the country you will understand the statistics often don't match up


Our politicians and political parties are corrupt and want to rule over populations hence don't want change and resist it


The combination of all these things leads us to where we are


Pakistan however once it kicks up will improve very very quickly simply because it's underdeveloped with massive potential

The problem is our data collection which our stats is based on is rudimentary, just to give some examples our LSM doesn't record any value addition a mehran is counted the same as an suv, ready made garments entire sector is off the books just measure the cotton cloth produced. Our price indexation takes into account the price of imported lipton as a benchmark instead of an average of all brands. Our GDP is 10-15% understated at least.

 

[pakpride00090]

I hope you'd also be asking Israelis this question.

That is why I am happy with more aid . People can call us bekhari and whatnot but does it really matter. Geopolitics is amoral .. No such thing as bad money... If it were up to me , i would probably further up the ante that we are a poor nation and receive more trading benefits from us/eu/gulf and aid money.

Wonder , why no one calls Israelis bekhari as they receive highest Aid from US. https://www.amazon.com/Way-Deception-Making-Mossad-officer/dp/0971759502

A small chapter on israeli deception and sucking money out of world's capitals is a good read.

 

[padamchen]

My ancestors were banyas.. Runs in the DNA..

You can add charity component because of acceptance of Islam.

Talking about Islam gets me banned for a month. Some/other times permanently.

I'll take your word for it.

Cheers, Doc

I hope you'd also be asking Israelis this question.

Israel is a small nation in comparison to you.

A lot of the "aid" they get, they actually control in the parent country.

Push-Pull.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Sal12]

I don't understand Pakistan economy.

Their people look well fed and clothed in the videos we see.

Why are they always short of money as a nation?

Its a serious question.

Are they having to spend too much on defending themselves against hostile neighbours?

Cheers, Doc

There is difference between govt and people. People in Pak has money but govt of pak has not.

 

[Kharral]

I don't understand Pakistan economy.

Their people look well fed and clothed in the videos we see.

Why are they always short of money as a nation?

Its a serious question.

Are they having to spend too much on defending themselves against hostile neighbours?

Cheers, Doc

What you call aid is not aid.
The correct word for it is Bribe.
You can call it tribute as well.
It’s paid to maintain a certain level of influence, curry certain favours, keep certain policies in place.
It ll continue to be paid until the State of Pakistan decides that it’s not in our larger interest no more.
Most people here think that FATF is an arm twisting exercise by the west brought upon under the influence of India, but that’s not the case, however it’s good for the state to have it perceived as such. Everybody is happy, especially the Indian side as this perception is pleasing to their eyes as well.
Fact of the matter the biggest beneficiaries of money laundering are the political parties & terror organisations that threaten the the State, they do that by getting direct with the international establishment & our establishment like any prudent establishment wouldn’t let that happen or at least wouldn’t let it go above a certain level. This whole exercise has helped us in real terms & has given our antagonists a perception of leverage or coercion over us. Win Win for everone.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Why are they always short of money as a nation?

You know how some bad eggs in every country don't pay taxes. In Pakistan nobody pays taxes except for a few dumb baskets. Entire country has it's fingers in the till. Smuggling is art of the economy. From electrical goods, cars, even petrol is smuggled in vast quantaties.

I knew petrol was smuggled from Iran but I always thought of it as small scale because let's face it petrol is not easiest thing to smuggle. But then I read a report and article that the entire economy of border districts in Balochistan live on smuggled Iranian oil which is sold at 50% cost of local fuel.

And as is always the case with these trhings you will have officials being bribed or even involved in the racket. I suppose when Pakistan has had prime ministers like Zardarei and Sharifs and everybody knew they were lining their packets it inspired all those below them until it ecame a national industry.

‘Senior police officers smuggling Iranian oil’

‘Senior police officers smuggling Iranian oil’

Oil sector experts estimate that around 0.7 million litres of oil is being smuggled from Iran to Pakistan every day.

www.dawn.com

Then the funny part is the same public who won't pay taxes expect everything free from the government. Jobs, schools, free health care, housing, roads, cheap electricity, cheap gas [both are mostly being stolen via illegal connections or bent inspectors] and then you have PDF crowd wanting the boys toys and latest jet fighters.

Did you know that the provincial PTI government of Khyber Paktunkwa has given free health [Sehat] insurance cards to every family in the province. That means the province has 100% medical cover which is better figure then USA where vast numbers are too poor and not covered.

In addition under the unversal Ehsaas welfare programme every poor person is covered with minimum welfare payments. Even in the remotest erstwhile tribal regions roads, shopping, housing, sports complexes are being built.

As if all this is not impressive enough the provincial government [don't forget federal government runs it's own national projects[ is busy laying a new network of motorways costing billions. I drove on these last year and the quality is as good if not better then European expressways/motorways. Examples -

M-16 Swat motorway [complete]
M-14 Hakla-Di Khan Motorway [almost complete]

And just recently approved that it does not have number

Now think about this. If your building six lane motorways they can't be for mules and camels. Many are toll and this tells you how many have cars plus have money to pay tolls. Of course in the entire province of 40 million people probably less than 50,000 are paying decent amount of tax. Again note these are provincial projects and not the vast national scale CPEC funded federal motorway projects which connect the entire country.

So where does the money come from. Begging international donors. Borrowing money from international lenders. And even with that being in a state of near bankruptcy. This is what you of course read on global media.

The welfare project [givin cash transfers to the poor] costs billions which was called Benezir Income Support Programme but now has been replaced with Ehsaas even recieves foreign funding. For example the largest part of DFID UK funds go to Pakistan to support the Ehsaas programme.

The other day I read a comment in a British newspaper by saying "it's bad enough for my tax to be used to pay for the dole in UK but now we are even paying for dole in Pakistan".

But the funny thing is this creaky structure called Pakistan keeps still rolling along. Punjab has also similiar programmes and is slightly behind with the health card rollout. The laggard is Sindh. Almost nothing is being done there. And we know where all the money is ending up there. In the pockets of the two mafias that dominate it.

On another note I am off to Pakistan next month again.

 

[padamchen]

What you call aid is not aid.
The correct word for it is Bribe.
You can call it tribute as well.
It’s paid to maintain a certain level of influence, curry certain favours, keep certain policies in place.
It ll continue to be paid until the State of Pakistan decides that it’s not in our larger interest no more.
Most people here think that FATF is an arm twisting exercise by the west brought upon under the influence of India, but that’s not the case, however it’s good for the state to have it perceived as such. Everybody is happy, especially the Indian side as this perception is pleasing to their eyes as well.
Fact of the matter the biggest beneficiaries of money laundering are the political parties & terror organisations that threaten the the State, they do that by getting direct with the international establishment & our establishment like any prudent establishment wouldn’t let that happen or at least wouldn’t let it go above a certain level. This whole exercise has helped us in real terms & has given our antagonists a perception of leverage or coercion over us. Win Win for everone.

You make a brilliant point about laundering huge mountains of money at national GDP levels in single wide swathes.

Cheers, Doc

 

[padamchen]

You know how some bad eggs in every country don't pay taxes. In Pakistan nobody pays taxes except for a few dumb baskets. Entire country has it's fingers in the till. Smuggling is art of the economy. From electrical goods, cars, even petrol is smuggled in vast quantaties.

I knew petrol was smuggled from Iran but I always thought of it as small scale because let's face it petrol is not easiest thing to smuggle. But then I read a report and article that the entire economy of border districts in Balochistan live on smuggled Iranian oil which is sold at 50% cost of local fuel.

View attachment 718625

View attachment 718626

And as is always the case with these trhings you will have officials being bribed or even involved in the racket. I suppose when Pakistan has had prime ministers like Zardarei and Sharifs and everybody knew they were lining their packets it inspired all those below them until it ecame a national industry.

‘Senior police officers smuggling Iranian oil’

‘Senior police officers smuggling Iranian oil’

Oil sector experts estimate that around 0.7 million litres of oil is being smuggled from Iran to Pakistan every day.

www.dawn.com

Then the funny part is the same public who won't pay taxes expect everything free from the government. Jobs, schools, free health care, housing, roads, cheap electricity, cheap gas [both are mostly being stolen via illegal connections or bent inspectors] and then you have PDF crowd wanting the boys toys and latest jet fighters.

Did you know that the provincial PTI government of Khyber Paktunkwa has given free health [Sehat] insurance cards to every family in the province. That means the province has 100% medical cover which is better figure then USA where vast numbers are too poor and not covered.

In addition under the unversal Ehsaas welfare programme every poor person is covered with minimum welfare payments. Even in the remotest erstwhile tribal regions roads, shopping, housing, sports complexes are being built.

As if all this is not impressive enough the provincial government [don't forget federal government runs it's own national projects[ is busy laying a new network of motorways costing billions. I drove on these last year and the quality is as good if not better then European expressways/motorways. Examples -

M-16 Swat motorway [complete]
M-14 Hakla-Di Khan Motorway [almost complete]

And just recently approved that it does not have number

View attachment 718627

Now think about this. If your building six lane motorways they can't be for mules and camels. Many are toll and this tells you how many have cars plus have money to pay tolls. Of course in the entire province of 40 million people probably less than 50,000 are paying decent amount of tax. Again note these are provincial projects and not the vast national scale CPEC funded federal motorway projects which connect the entire country.


View attachment 718629

So where does the money come from. Begging international donors. Borrowing money from international lenders. And even with that being in a state of near bankruptcy. This is what you of course read on global media.

The welfare project [givin cash transfers to the poor] costs billions which was called Benezir Income Support Programme but now has been replaced with Ehsaas even recieves foreign funding. For example the largest part of DFID UK funds go to Pakistan to support the Ehsaas programme.

The other day I read a comment in a British newspaper by saying "it's bad enough for my tax to be used to pay for the dole in UK but now we are even paying for dole in Pakistan".

But the funny thing is this creaky structure called Pakistan keeps still rolling along. Punjab has also similiar programmes and is slightly behind with the health card rollout. The laggard is Sindh. Almost nothing is being done there. And we know where all the money is ending up there. In the pockets of the two mafias that dominate it.

On another note I am off to Pakistan next month again.

You guys have it good man. I don't understand why people would want to leave.

Most of the now gone Indian crowd here pay close to 35-40% of what they earn as Tax.

Bluddy fool cyber warriors.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Trango Towers]

I doubt Pakistan coming out of grey list just yet might come out in October but not yet. Leverage is what US needs now more than ever when the doha deal is just about to collapse.

Here 0akistan holds the cards..if only we had courage.
If not off the list permanently and all embargoes lifted such as engines do t129 then no help in Afghanistan

 

[Baloach]

pakistanis arnt poor at all. they just dont like pay taxes and cry all the time regarding inflation. One of my very very close family member always curse imran khan for inflation and i just found out they donated RS 80 thousand to local mosque which is being refurbished and NO nobody from their family lives and work abroad. its same story everywhere you go. water is free , no property tax , no council tax and gas is like almost free but people still cry. and when you visit hotels , always packed. almost every one has a big belly which is a symbol of good health lol. we here in uk exercise our arse off to be slim and smart and they call us weak when we visit back home. let me tell you guys. pakistani people are among richest people in this world apart from few areas in bloachistan and sindh. they just dont pay any taxes.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

How long before the gora money string guys ask the same question I did?

Does the Pakistan population look like African populations to merit the amount of foreign aid it gets regularly?

Cheers, Doc

Which Gora money string is still active in terms of significant amounts of aid?

Most Western Aid, specifically US, has been transactional and because the US needed Pakistan to advance its geo-political goals - it's not a free lunch for Pakistan.

 

[Kabira]

How long before the gora money string guys ask the same question I did?

Does the Pakistan population look like African populations to merit the amount of foreign aid it gets regularly?

Cheers, Doc

What foreign aid? IMF isnt aid agency. Pakistan need to spend what it collect in taxes. But once IMF is out, governments start printing rupees like crazy to win next election.

Pakistan GDP to tax ratio is 10% vs 18% for India. Thats huge difference. Smuggling through port and borders is still rampant but current government seem to be in right track.

 

[padamchen]

Are you stupid? What foreign aid? IMF isnt aid agency. Pakistan need to spend what it collect in taxes which that depend on GDP growth rate. Problem solved.

But once IMF is out, governments start printing rupees like crazy to win next election.

When if ever is Pakistan ever going to repay this?

Can it?

Pakistan is doing no different to what millions of credit card scam artists do in India daily.

Many of them very white collar.

But scamsters nonetheless.

Cheers, Doc

 

[IceCold]

This western tool should be shunned.
These haramis nawaz and zardari have left pakistan at the mercy of these western blackmailing institutions, institutions like the imf where ranking from fatf matters