What's new

FAQs on India's Massive 34% Hike in Military Spending

Here are my 2 million and some words on this

India's defence spending as a GDP%




Population below national poverty line


Net Net

1. Is threre a poverty problem in India - Yes
2. Are we doing something about it - Yes
3. Are there positive results - Yes
4. Could they have been better - Yes
5. Is our defence spending in line with our GDP growth - Yes
6. Do Pakistanis think that we spend too much on defence - Yes
7. Does India care about this thought of Pakistanis - No
8. Is our strategy of poverty elimination right - Time will tell. We think we are on the right track. Lets check back in another 20 years

Your Indian defense spending data is completely bogus.

Even if you accept India's claim of $30 billion achieved through creative accounting, it's about 3% of India's GDP. But Col Nair's detailed analysis indicates that India has been exceeding 3% of GDP on defense for years.

Your poverty figures are bogus too. UNDP figures show 42% living below $1.25 a day in India. See Human Development Report 2009 - Population living below $1.25 a day (%)

India's current definition of poverty lines are based on a consumption basket that derives from a 1973-74 consumer survey, and are intended to ensure 2100 calories per person per day in urban areas and 2400 calories per person per day in rural areas. These poverty lines have been criticized for being too low, and for focusing exclusively on food consumption norms, and ignoring expenditure on health, education and other basic needs.

Read the recent Tendulkar report on poverty in India:

The Hindu : Opinion / Leader Page Articles : A methodology deeply flawed
 
.
Your Indian defense spending data is completely bogus.

Even if you accept India's claim of $30 billion achieved through creative accounting, it's about 3% of India's GDP. But Col Nair's detailed analysis indicates that India has been exceeding 3% of GDP on defense for years.

Your poverty figures are bogus too. UNDP figures show 42% living below $1.25 a day in India. See Human Development Report 2009 - Population living below $1.25 a day (%)

India's current definition of poverty lines are based on a consumption basket that derives from a 1973-74 consumer survey, and are intended to ensure 2100 calories per person per day in urban areas and 2400 calories per person per day in rural areas. These poverty lines have been criticized for being too low, and for focusing exclusively on food consumption norms, and ignoring expenditure on health, education and other basic needs.

Read the recent Tendulkar report on poverty in India:

The Hindu : Opinion / Leader Page Articles : A methodology deeply flawed

You did not understand the intent of my post. I am trying to show the trend and not the actual numbers.. If you draw the graph for $1.25, you will again get the downward sloping graph (the figure was 62% or so in 1990). On the defence side, again I would expect the same creative accounting happening over the years so the trend would be maintained if not the actual numbers

My request to you.. Dont get so caught up in numbers and the intent of India bashing that you lose sight of what someone is trying to say. If still you want to go that path, then please focus on point 7
 
.
Your Indian defense spending data is completely bogus.

Even if you accept India's claim of $30 billion achieved through creative accounting, it's about 3% of India's GDP. But Col Nair's detailed analysis indicates that India has been exceeding 3% of GDP on defense for years.

Your poverty figures are bogus too. UNDP figures show 42% living below $1.25 a day in India. See Human Development Report 2009 - Population living below $1.25 a day (%)

India's current definition of poverty lines are based on a consumption basket that derives from a 1973-74 consumer survey, and are intended to ensure 2100 calories per person per day in urban areas and 2400 calories per person per day in rural areas. These poverty lines have been criticized for being too low, and for focusing exclusively on food consumption norms, and ignoring expenditure on health, education and other basic needs.

Read the recent Tendulkar report on poverty in India:

The Hindu : Opinion / Leader Page Articles : A methodology deeply flawed

$1.25 is a lot of money in India. As per the current exch rates it is equal to Rs 60. A poor family of 4 spending Rs 240 per day (per capita Rs 50 per head) is not bad.It can provide basic essentials like food, govt education etc. In PPP terms it will be even more.
However, India needs to improve on this front, not withstanding what the stats say, poverty is a problem in India.
The question is not either guns or butter. We need both. For centuries India has been invaded b'coz of failure of rulers to ensure security. That needs to be understood and dealt with on a long term basis.
 
Last edited:
.
well in short i want to say that

we have to increase our defence spending

we have to modernistaion of our force and we have to provide saft to our pepoles
 
.
$1.25 is a lot of money in India. As per the current exch rates it is equal to Rs 60. A poor family of 4 spending Rs 240 per day (per capita Rs 50 per head) is not bad.It can provide basic essentials like food, govt education etc. In PPP terms it will be even more.
However, India needs to improve on this front, not withstanding what the stats say, poverty is a problem in India.
The question is not either guns or butter. We need both. For centuries India has been invaded b'coz of failure of rulers to ensure security. That needs to be understood and dealt with on a long term basis.

PPP is ~3 times the Indian GDP.

So 1.25*3 = 3.75 (or is this jump not warranted?)

3.75 USD to INR = 173.965485Rs

174*4 = 696Rs

A decent amount I would say. When we were in India, food that we ate from roadside resturants were quite cheap. Dosa from this place outside Jadavpur Uni in Kolkata is 15Rs a piece. Good lunch ;).
 
.
According to some forum members, especially those of Pakistani origin, it seems to me that as far as their comments are concerned, just by throwing the money at the problem will make problem disappear. If this is really was the case then certainly world may not have poverty of such a epic magnitude. Poverty cannot be prevented by throwing money alone, it needs constant effort to crush evils like Caste system, Social discrimination, Unemployment etc.

Heck Indian Government has specifically given people living under the poverty line a liberty of joining Public sector services under Reservation system.
 
.
We need an even bigger defence budget because when we fight pakistan we are not realizing that that it is not only pakistan but the PRC ala nuclear weapons and missiles, the US ala conventional arms, most of the arabs ala aid. This mammoth fighting machine is presented to us in different ways. Lets hope our decisision makers go for an even bigger hike. The poor arguement is absolute nonsense since if we dont have these weapons there will be no poor or rich people left to survive and our country will again be colonized or worse annihilated.
 
.
The next decade will show which of the two countries (China & Pakistan) will emerge as the power house of south asia. Thanks to all Pakistan members for showing so much concern about the the poor in India. All your concerns are being addressed by a political class who are elected by the people. Rest assured that we are concerned about our people and inclusive growth is the main agenda.

We have our union budget on 26 th of Feb. keep your ears open on the % hike in spending on areas other that defence as well. India is clearly out of recession and this sentiment will be reflected in the budget. The defence spending in all likelihood will increase and this is in line with the security concerns that is obvious (consider the Pune tragedy).

India has no reason to consider Pakistan as a competitor on economic grounds and its competition is with China, Brazil and Russia.
 
.
most of indias military expense will goes to air force upgradation..and yes Poverty cannot be prevented by throwing money alone, it needs constant effort to crush evils like Caste system, Unemployment etc.
 
.
Gurmeet Kanwal

February 11, 2010

The American ambassador in Islamabad has said that the US Defence Department is considering the sale of 12 unarmed drones to Pakisatan to encourage it to cooperate in the war on terror. It is not beyond Pakistan’s technological capability to arm these UAVs with air-to-ground missiles for use in conventional conflict.

A few months ago, Air Chief Marshal Rao Quamar Suleman, Chief of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), had accepted the first F-16 Block 52 aircraft on behalf of his nation at the Lockheed Martin facility at Fort Worth, Texas. The remaining aircraft will be delivered in 2010. The total order, worth US$5.1 billion, is for 12 F-16Cs and six F-16Ds. When this transfer is completed, it will raise the total number of F-16s in service with the PAF to 54. The Pakistan Air Force received its first F-16, in the Block 15 F-16A/B configuration, in 1982.

Earlier, the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency had notified Congress of a Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan of 115 M109A5 155mm self-propelled howitzers as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised by Pakistan, could be as high as $56 million.

This is not the first time that the US has offered major arms packages to Pakistan, nor will it be the last. The United States had co-opted Pakistan as a frontline state in its fight against communism during the Cold War and armed it with Patton tanks, F-86 Sabre Jets and F-104 Starfighters, among other weapons and equipment. Despite strong US assurances, all of these were used against India. US-Pakistan cooperation was expanded further when the former Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan. In the 1980s, the CIA gave Pakistan huge quantities of weapons for the Afghan mujahideen. These included shoulder-fired Stinger surface-to-air missiles, some of which were recovered by the Indian Army from Pakistan’s terrorist mercenaries in Kashmir. However, as soon as the last Soviet tank left Afghan soil, the United States dropped Pakistan like a hot potato and slapped sanctions on it.

Post-September 11, the United States not only ignored Pakistan’s nuclear proliferation but also its emergence as the new hub of Islamist fundamentalist terrorism. It also tolerated General Musharraf’s dictatorial regime because it suited US national interests in the war against terrorism. The US designation of Pakistan as a Major Non-NATO Ally (MNNA) in March 2004 had irritated Indian policy planners because Indo-US relations had just begun to improve. The “next steps in strategic partnership” (NSSP) had been announced only in January 2004 and India was looking forward to a comprehensive engagement with the United States. The Indo-US strategic partnership is now on a firm footing, but developments such as the sale of major conventional arms to Pakistan run the risk of damaging the growing relationship.

The sale of conventional arms to Pakistan ostensibly to fight terrorism has been criticised even in the United States. A Congressional Research Service (CRS) report has questioned the sale: "It (the F-16 Block 52) incorporates advanced weapons and avionics for air-to-air combat that appear unnecessary for counterinsurgency operations. Less expensive and less sophisticated aircraft such as attack helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles, and combat search and rescue aircraft would appear to have greater utility in combating insurgents and other non-state actors than supersonic fighter aircraft." It is another matter that Pakistan has been actually using fighter aircraft to strike targets on ground in Swat and South Waziristan. These are tactics that are bound to generate a severe backlash against its armed forces, as has been witnessed in a spate of attacks against senior army personnel in Islamabad and Rawalpindi.

The United States justifies arms sales to Pakistan on several grounds. Besides the need to continue to retain Pakistan’s support in the hunt for al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists, the United States realises the fragility of the civilian regime in the face of Islamist hardliners in the army, the ISI and the country. It sees the Pakistan Army as a stabilising force in a country that is being gradually Islamised beyond redemption. The United States feels that it must do all that it can to keep the civilian regime in power. It is also deeply concerned about Pakistan’s nuclear weapons falling into jihadi hands if there is an Islamist coup. Hence, the United States feels inclined to offer some sops to satisfy Pakistan’s corps commanders at regular intervals. The sale of eight Orion maritime surveillance aircraft, the Phalanx gun systems and the 2000 TOW anti-tank-cum-bunker busting missiles falls in this category. Also, India and Pakistan are among the largest arms buyers in the world today and no US administration can neglect the military-industrial complex.

Though the sale of the Orion reconnaissance aircraft will make things relatively more difficult for the Indian Navy, they do not pose a direct new threat to India. The proposed sale indicates a US design to engage the Pakistan Navy in joint reconnaissance and patrolling of the sea lanes in the Gulf region by bolstering its capability while a similar exercise is being undertaken with the Indian Navy in the southern Bay of Bengal and the Malacca Straits. Clearly, the United States is planning to cooperate with the Indian Navy through its Honolulu-based Pacific Command and with the Pakistan Navy through its Central Command. Such an arrangement will also keep the Indian and Pakistan navies from having to launch joint operations and undertake search, seizure and rescue operations together.

If India wishes to influence US arms sales decisions, it must develop adequate leverages to make the United States reconsider the pros and cons very carefully. The supply of a new batch of F-16 aircraft to Pakistan will certainly enhance the strike capabilities of the PAF even though the Indian Air Force will still continue to enjoy both qualitative and quantitative superiority. India is justified in seeing the move to go ahead with the sale of the F-16s as an US attempt to balance its strategic partnership with India by once again propping up Pakistan as a regional challenger.
 
.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News-Analysis/Govt-raises-defence-allocation-to-Rs-147344-cr/articleshow/5619870.cms

NEW DELHI: India's defence expenditure has been raised to Rs.147,344 crore for 2010-11, up 8.13 percent from the revised estimates of the previous
fiscal, in the budget presented by Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee in the Lok Sabha Friday.

"Secure borders and security of life and property fosters development. I propose to increase the allocation for defence to Rs.147,344 crore. This would include Rs.60,000 crore for capital expenditure," Mukherjee said in his budget speech.

"Needless to say, any additional requirement for the security of the nation will be provided for," he added.

Though the expenditure has been hiked by Rs.11,080 crore, in real terms however, the hike works out to only 3.98 percent as Rs.141,703 crore had originally been allocated for 2009-10 but this was later revised to Rs.136,264 crore.

As in the past, the 1.2 million-strong Indian Army has been granted the lion's share, but at Rs.58,995 crore this Rs.439 crore lower than in revised allocation for 2009-10 and Rs.1,275 crore lower than the original allocation for the fiscal.

The Indian Navy has been allocated Rs.9,455 crore, just Rs.16 crore higher than its revised figure of Rs.9,439 crore for the previous fiscal but Rs.1,011 crore more than its original allocation of Rs.8,404 crore.

In the case of the Indian Air Force, its allocation of Rs.15,803 crore is Rs.529 crore higher than the revised allocation of Rs.15,274 crore for the previous fiscal and Rs.892 crore higher than the original figure.

Rather surprisingly, the allocation for defence ordnance factories has been slashed by Rs.1,835 crore to Rs.1,999 crore against Rs.3,834 crore in the previous fiscal.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has got a hike of Rs.881 crore to Rs.5,260 crore from its revised allocation of Rs.4,379 crore in the previous fiscal.
 
. .
Here's an analysis titled "Vision 2010: a dangerous myopia" by Amiya Kumar Bagchi in the Hindu:

The Central budget of 2010-11 is a further step in the realisation of a vision of India vibrant with the income, wealth, saving, education and the entrepreneurial energy of the top 5-10 per cent of the population and the rest of Indians, serving that minority and surviving as barely literate, malnourished multitude.

With the accession of Rajiv Gandhi to power, a vision began to germinate. That vision was that of an India that would be vibrant with the entrepreneurial energy of the few, and the rest of the population serving those few with their labour.

---------------------
Look at the successes of the budget: the professional middle class is happy with the cuts in taxes collected from it. The business community, including foreign investors, is happy, because of further privatisation of public assets by which the Finance Minister proposes to raise Rs. 25,000 crore, because of the looming privatisation of many operations of the Indian Railways, whose kitty is nowhere near what it should be for even partial implementation of the projects announced by the Railway Minister, because the FDI path would be further smoothed and because licences would be issued for fresh private banks. Never mind if they fail as the Global Trust Bank did, the government will pick up the bill directly or indirectly, in accordance with its earlier record and the recent practice in the United States and Britain where banks failed but bankers remained prosperous. The Indian stock market responded positively, thus sending a message of welcome to the budget and generating profits for the bulls.

The Finance Ministers of the neoliberal Central government had earlier instituted the Fiscal Responsibility and Responsibility Management Act. This became their excuse to drastically cut down public investment and expenditure on the social sector. As soon as the global financial crisis hit India and the interests of the Indian rich demanded fiscal stimulus, the government overthrew fiscal orthodoxy and budget deficits soared. North Block policymakers can claim that the stimulus worked and the growth rates did not crash. The problem is with the content of that growth.

-----------------------------

The Union Cabinet recently approved an agreement with the U.S. on ‘Agricultural co-operation and food security.' Under an India-U.S. Agricultural Knowledge Initiative, multinational agribusiness firms such as Cargill and Monsanto can become members of the policymaking body. This is ironical since most of U.S. agribusinesses are conducted under the umbrella of huge government subsidies, while the current budget has cut the measly subsidies poor farmers enjoy in India. Indian agriculture has grown slowly in recent years, and food grain production has lagged behind population growth.

Ordinary Indians are badly malnourished and calorie intake has fallen over time. An Expert Group appointed by the Planning Commission has proposed 1800 calories per day as the norm of consumption by an adult for fixing the poverty line. This norm is applicable only for light or sedentary work. How is a construction worker with heavy head loads or an agricultural worker driving buffaloes in a flooded paddy land going to do his work and lead a healthy life or survive long? Even this norm yields an estimate of poverty of about 42 per cent in 2004-05, much higher than the estimates quoted officially. If the Food Security Bill is passed by Parliament, it will presumably be implemented by accepting the older estimate or the new estimate of the Expert Group. Either way, a vast number of people who are malnourished will remain in that state.

The Hindu : Opinion / Leader Page Articles : Vision 2010: a dangerous myopia
 
.
Here's an analysis titled "Vision 2010: a dangerous myopia" by Amiya Kumar Bagchi in the Hindu:

The Central budget of 2010-11 is a further step in the realisation of a vision of India vibrant with the income, wealth, saving, education and the entrepreneurial energy of the top 5-10 per cent of the population and the rest of Indians, serving that minority and surviving as barely literate, malnourished multitude.

With the accession of Rajiv Gandhi to power, a vision began to germinate. That vision was that of an India that would be vibrant with the entrepreneurial energy of the few, and the rest of the population serving those few with their labour.

---------------------
Look at the successes of the budget: the professional middle class is happy with the cuts in taxes collected from it. The business community, including foreign investors, is happy, because of further privatisation of public assets by which the Finance Minister proposes to raise Rs. 25,000 crore, because of the looming privatisation of many operations of the Indian Railways, whose kitty is nowhere near what it should be for even partial implementation of the projects announced by the Railway Minister, because the FDI path would be further smoothed and because licences would be issued for fresh private banks. Never mind if they fail as the Global Trust Bank did, the government will pick up the bill directly or indirectly, in accordance with its earlier record and the recent practice in the United States and Britain where banks failed but bankers remained prosperous. The Indian stock market responded positively, thus sending a message of welcome to the budget and generating profits for the bulls.

The Finance Ministers of the neoliberal Central government had earlier instituted the Fiscal Responsibility and Responsibility Management Act. This became their excuse to drastically cut down public investment and expenditure on the social sector. As soon as the global financial crisis hit India and the interests of the Indian rich demanded fiscal stimulus, the government overthrew fiscal orthodoxy and budget deficits soared. North Block policymakers can claim that the stimulus worked and the growth rates did not crash. The problem is with the content of that growth.

-----------------------------

The Union Cabinet recently approved an agreement with the U.S. on ‘Agricultural co-operation and food security.' Under an India-U.S. Agricultural Knowledge Initiative, multinational agribusiness firms such as Cargill and Monsanto can become members of the policymaking body. This is ironical since most of U.S. agribusinesses are conducted under the umbrella of huge government subsidies, while the current budget has cut the measly subsidies poor farmers enjoy in India. Indian agriculture has grown slowly in recent years, and food grain production has lagged behind population growth.

Ordinary Indians are badly malnourished and calorie intake has fallen over time. An Expert Group appointed by the Planning Commission has proposed 1800 calories per day as the norm of consumption by an adult for fixing the poverty line. This norm is applicable only for light or sedentary work. How is a construction worker with heavy head loads or an agricultural worker driving buffaloes in a flooded paddy land going to do his work and lead a healthy life or survive long? Even this norm yields an estimate of poverty of about 42 per cent in 2004-05, much higher than the estimates quoted officially. If the Food Security Bill is passed by Parliament, it will presumably be implemented by accepting the older estimate or the new estimate of the Expert Group. Either way, a vast number of people who are malnourished will remain in that state.

The Hindu : Opinion / Leader Page Articles : Vision 2010: a dangerous myopia

And this is related to defence expenditure hike.. how??
 
. .
Back
Top Bottom