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Fantasy frontiers :Indian, Pakistani and Chinese border disputes

third eye

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The partition is not the problem, how it was done lies at the root of the problem.

Feb 8th 2012, 10:32 by The Economist online


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Disputed borders are both a cause and a symptom of tensions between big neighbours in South Asia. When the colonial power, Britain, withdrew from India it left a dangerous legacy of carelessly or arbitrarily drawn borders. Tensions between India and China flare on occasion, especially along India’s far north-eastern border, along the state of Arunachal Pradesh. In recent years Chinese officials have taken to calling part of the same area “South Tibet”, to Indian fury, as that seems to imply a Chinese claim to the territory. A failure to agree the precise border, and then to demarcate it, ensures that future disagreements may flare again.

Pakistan, too, is beset by difficult borders. Afghanistan, to the north, has long been a hostile neighbour. This is largely because Afghanistan refuses to recognise the frontier—known as the Durand line—between the countries, drawn by the British.

Most contentious of all, however, are the borders in Kashmir, where Pakistan, India and China all have competing claims. By the time of independence, in 1947, it was clear that many Indian Muslims were determined to break off from Hindu-majority India. It fell to a British civil servant, who knew nothing of the region, to draw a line of partition between territory that would become Pakistan and India. Pakistan was given Muslim dominated areas in the far north west, plus territory in the east (which itself got independence as Bangladesh in 1971). The rulers of some disputed areas, notably Kashmir, were told to choose which country to join.

While Kashmir’s Hindu rulers prevaricated, hoping somehow to become an independent country, Pakistan’s leaders decided to force the issue. Since Kashmir was (and is) a Muslim majority territory, Pakistan felt justified in seeing Pushtun warlords charge in from the north-west of Pakistan, late in 1947, to seize control of Kashmir. In response India, apparently invited by Kashmir’s rulers, deployed its national army and stopped the invaders taking Srinagar, Kashmir’s capital, located in the Kashmir valley, the most coveted part of the territory. The resulting line of control, by and large, remains the de-facto international frontier within Kashmir and, in effect, is accepted by Paksitan and India. Huge numbers of Indian and Pakistani soldiers remain in Kashmir today as both countries profess to be the rightful authority for the rest of Kashmir.

Complicating matters, China has also extended its influence, and control, over portions of Kashmir, largely with the support of Pakistan, an ally.
 
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So one can see India and Pakistan are on same side of issue as both recognise the borders drawn by British imperialist.

While China and Afghanistan are on same side as both refuse to recognise the Mcmohan line and Durand lines drawn by Britishers.

So if pakistan supports the claims made by China against India, it has to accept that durand line is also false (thereby giving pastoon dominated areas to Afghanistan), isn't it a complicated situation for Pakistan.
 
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India should recognize Aksai Chin as apart of China in return for recognition of AP along with Tawang as apart of India, India should also push for status quo and having the LOC becoming the IB between the 2 countries
 
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India should recognize Aksai Chin as apart of China in return for recognition of AP along with Tawang as apart of India, India should also push for status quo and having the LOC becoming the IB between the 2 countries

Nehru already rejected that settlement offer. :wave:

Now China is in the strongest position it has ever been vis-a-vis India. Never since the founding of the PRC has China's economy been four times as large as India's, but today it is.

The power balance has shifted too much for those old offers to still be valid today.
 
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Nehru already rejected that settlement offer. :wave:

Now China is in the strongest position it has ever been vis-a-vis India, never since the founding of the PRC has China's economy been four times as large as India's, but today it is.

how will this help ?

In any case the aim of the thread was to educate all on the background of the problem and the mess the Brits left behind not to re ignite a flame war.
 
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how will this help ?

In any case the aim of the thread was to educate all on the background of the problem and the mess the Brits left behind not to re ignite a flame war.

My point is that China settled all our land disputes (with Russia etc) when we were at our moment of greatest weakness.

It will be nearly impossible to make such deal today, to turn the LoC into the IB.
 
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Nehru already rejected that settlement offer. :wave:

Now China is in the strongest position it has ever been vis-a-vis India. Never since the founding of the PRC has China's economy been four times as large as India's, but today it is.

I think the conditions for that offer have expired a while ago.

India will not give an inch of AP or Tawang to China and i doubt China would do the same with AC China is in a better stance militarily but a infrastructure modernization drive and addition of extra troops in the NE would probably balance things out a bit and i don't believe that offer has been taken away but this idiot Congress gov't would not accept a reasonable offer like that on the other hand the BJP would.
 
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So one can see India and Pakistan are on same side of issue as both recognise the borders drawn by British imperialist.

While China and Afghanistan are on same side as both refuse to recognise the Mcmohan line and Durand lines drawn by Britishers.

So if pakistan supports the claims made by China against India, it has to accept that durand line is also false (thereby giving pastoon dominated areas to Afghanistan), isn't it a complicated situation for Pakistan.

Good points .

Also if Pakistan says Kashmir is Muslim majority region and hence belongs to them then the same holds good for the eastern side of Durand line which should be ceded to Afghanistan for it is Pastoon majority area.

---------- Post added at 09:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

My point is that China settled all our land disputes (with Russia etc) when we were at our moment of greatest weakness.

It will be nearly impossible to make such deal today, to turn the LoC into the IB.

Do you have a better option which will be acceptable for all parties concerned ?
 
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Do you have a better option which will be acceptable for all parties concerned ?

Status quo makes the most sense. Perhaps when there is a stronger level of trade and diplomatic relations, then such an offer may come up again in the future.
 
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Nehru already rejected that settlement offer. :wave:

Now China is in the strongest position it has ever been vis-a-vis India. Never since the founding of the PRC has China's economy been four times as large as India's, but today it is.

The power balance has shifted too much for those old offers to still be valid today.

Be honest and comment: Do you see any other solution to this dispute? and do you really think, China or India can take back what they claim forcefully??? :undecided:

My answer is "NO" to both. :disagree:
 
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Status quo makes the most sense. Perhaps when there is a stronger level of trade and diplomatic relations, then such an offer may come up again in the future.

hey CD if we end support to the Tibetan exiles and kick them out of India and send them back to China with the Lama would guys in return end support for Pakistan militarily and diplomatically?
 
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Status quo makes the most sense. Perhaps when there is a stronger level of trade and diplomatic relations, then such an offer may come up again in the future.

Yes i agree to an extent . but in order to give a lasting solution to our generation and generations to come only option feasible option in such stalemates would be to legalise the existing LOCs and turn them IB. Status quo will push the inevitable further while still keeping the issue simmering !!!
 
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Good points .

Also if Pakistan says Kashmir is Muslim majority region and hence belongs to them then the same holds good for the eastern side of Durand line which should be ceded to Afghanistan for it is Pastoon majority area.

It is quite sad that you do not know the difference b/w ethnicity and religion! The comment should have been better placed with the following words "if Pakistan says Kashmir is Muslim majority region and hence belongs to them then the same holds good for the eastern side of Durand line which should be ceded to Pakistan by Afghanistan as they too are all Muslims".

But 1 problem at a time, we need to sort our our own issues before we start interfering in to matters that do not concern us.

---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 AM ----------

hey CD if we end support to the Tibetan exiles and kick them out of India and send them back to China with the Lama would guys in return end support for Pakistan militarily and diplomatically?

No. Simply because China considers Pakistan an asset against India, if there ever is need then I am sure China can exploit Pakistan against India.
 
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hey CD if we end support to the Tibetan exiles and kick them out of India and send them back to China with the Lama would guys in return end support for Pakistan militarily and diplomatically?

I think the boat has sailed on that issue. We've gone to a point where Pakistan is now too vital for our geostrategic interests, not to mention that we are now close allies with them.

Also, the Dalai Lama has already said that he does want independence for Tibet, so he is little more than a nuisance nowadays.

Dalai Lama: Tibet Wants Autonomy, Not Independence - Time.com

Yes i agree to an extent . but in order to give a lasting solution to our generation and generations to come only option feasible option in such stalemates would be to legalise the existing LOCs and turn them IB. Status quo will push the inevitable further while still keeping the issue simmering !!!

Very unlikely in the current scenario, which is why the Status quo is the best option.
 
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It is quite sad that you do not know the difference b/w ethnicity and religion! The comment should have been better placed with the following words "if Pakistan says Kashmir is Muslim majority region and hence belongs to them then the same holds good for the eastern side of Durand line which should be ceded to Pakistan by Afghanistan as they too are all Muslims".

But 1 problem at a time, we need to sort our our own issues before we start interfering in to matters that do not concern us.

---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 AM ----------



No. Simply because China considers Pakistan an asset against India, if there ever is need then I am sure China can exploit Pakistan against India.

this is the first i've heard this coming from a Pakistani so you admit to being one of China's lapdogs? you think China would give a damn if India and Pakistan obliterated each other in nuclear warfare?

---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------

I think the boat has sailed on that issue. We've gone to a point where Pakistan is now too vital for our geostrategic interests, not to mention that we are now close allies with them.

Also, the Dalai Lama has already said that he does want independence for Tibet, so he is little more than a nuisance nowadays.

Dalai Lama: Tibet Wants Autonomy, Not Independence - Time.com



Very unlikely in the current scenario, which is why the Status quo is the best option.

now lets just say we resolve our territorial disputes with China or Pakistan would that affect the current Sino-Pak military and diplomatic structure?
 
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