Fakhri Pasha "The Defender of Madina"

[Hyperion]

Bhawawawwawaw.... love this thread.....

Everyone enjoy!!!


Osmanlı - Hücum Marşı

 

[T-123456]

So you are the "Original Muslims"......

Good to know, since Arabs are the "Original Muslims", we should call ourselves "Second class Muslims"

Dont you get tired of the fantasy stories?
Dont take evry fantasy serious,you know the answers allways will be denial.

 

[al-Hasani]

Dont you get tired of the fantasy stories?
Dont take evry fantasy serious,you know the answers allways will be denial.

So it is a fantasy that Arabs were the first Muslims (original in other words) and that they more than any other people spread Islam and that they invaded non-Muslim areas/countries/empires and not Muslim? Unless they thought among themselves.

Ok, I guess your definition of fantasy is contrary to the one most of us use.

Good to know, oldie.

So when an Arab dares to for instance say that Prophet Muhammad (saws) was an Arab or the 4 rightly guided Caliphs we become supremacists?

 

[-SINAN-]

@Sinan those maps are unimportant since it was not the same family even.

Well, it's unimportant if not the same family or not.

It was Ottoman's were part of the Selcuk empire. Rulers of the Selcuks were Oghuz Turks, Rulers of the Selcuk Empire Oghuz Turks.

Since you said....

How did a obscure tribe from Turkmenistan, back then, suddenly gain the Caliphate in 1517

The Seljuqs were a Persianized empire that lasted a little over 100 years.

Seljuq's ruling house was from Kınık Tribe of Oghuz Turks. Empire lasted between 1040 - 1308.

Being Persianized is yours and Persians claim, Persians had influated Seljuks...... but Persianized... no.

I have never heard about those Gokturks.

Then you shouldn't talk about history of Turks without prior knowledge.

AS you said.

Before that migration they were not ruling anything close to the size of the Ottoman Empire

Yes, he called my country for a fake country and I replied in the same manner.

Quote please.

Well, they were usurpers.

I'm curious, when we took Constaniople, i wonder if Arabs called us usurpers.

Let me remind you with a verse from our Prophet.

Verily you shall conquer Constantinople. What a wonderful leader will he be, and what a wonderful army will that army be!

Nothing to do with being any nationalist. You yourself are an Turkish nationalist like most Turks here. So you can't accuse me of being an nationalist when you are that yourself.

Yeap, i'm a nationalist myself but i don't set double standards for non-Turks.

 

[T-123456]

So it is a fantasy that Arabs were the first Muslims (original in other words) and that they more than any other people spread Islam and that they invaded non-Muslim areas/countries/empires and not Muslim? Unless they thought among themselves.

Ok, I guess your definition of fantasy is contrary to the one most of us use.

No,its a fantasy that you allways come up with your version of History about Arabs did this Arabs did that,the ottomans were Arabized,we didnt rule over you etc..
Not my definition at all,you were still living in tents when the English came to help you against the Ottomans and here you are talking about culture,what culture?
You are lucky to have oil cause without oil you would have been like Somalia.
So dont act like your people ever achieved anything before WWI.
I know you will come with another history book about what Arabs did,so nothing new there.

 

[al-Hasani]

Well, it's unimportant if not the same family or not.

It was Ottoman's were part of the Selcuk empire. Rulers of the Selcuks were Oghuz Turks, Rulers of the Selcuk Empire Oghuz Turks.

Since you said....







Seljuq's ruling house was from Kınık Tribe of Oghuz Turks. Empire lasted between 1040 - 1308.

Being Persianized is yours and Persians claim, Persians had influated Seljuks...... but Persianized... no.




Then you shouldn't talk about history of Turks without prior knowledge.

AS you said.





Quote please.



I'm curious, when we took Constaniople, i wonder if Arabs called us usurpers.

Let me remind you with a verse from our Prophet.







Yeap, i'm a nationalist myself but i don't set double standards for non-Turks.

I am talking about the family. The family that founded the Ottomans came from nowhere from Turkmenistan. Hence the use of obscure. I am not talking about any past rule. Nor is it relevant.

According to this link it lasted from 1037 to 1194 and most sources say that it was Persianized.

Seljuq Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Highly Persianized[10][11][12][13] in culture[17][18][19] and language,[10][20][21][22][23] the Seljuqs also played an important role in the development of the Turko-Persian tradition,[24] even exporting Persian culture to Anatolia.[25][26]

Look at all those sources.

I am still taking about the family not a whole people.

He talked about false and I took that as meaning the country. I might be wrong but in any case, as I initially wrote, that was just a similar reply to his false claim which I took as meaning the country.

Give me a Hadith.

Unsurper is unsurper. If somebody or a family takes the throne of KSA they will be called usurpers.

Oh, which double standards do I set? You don't seem neutral anyway.

 

[-SINAN-]

Yes, Arabs are the original Muslims as being the first Muslims. I have not talked about any second-class Muslims so that is your own invention here.

Well, for me your mindset is clear. Let's leave it to readers to decide.

When we conquered land we did not conquer Muslim land but non-Muslim land. That's how Islam spread from Portugal to India.

As if there were Muslim states to around you to conquer at that time.

Some of the Muslim land today was not conquered but converted peacefully due to trade and settlement such as South East Asia (Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia).

As if you could conquer South East Asia with a landing forces in middle ages.

 

[Desert Fox]

Why mention him then? Like it was news that there were great non-Arab Muslim generals.

Which blunders? We are talking about the Arab Revolt. Not something that happened 1300 years earlier.

You want me to discuss the Sunni-Shia split I see? I will be willing to do that but in another thread since that's not the topic of the thread. Count me in after Tuesday where I have an important exam. In fact I should not even be around here right now.

The reason for Iran being Shia is due to the Safavids who forcibly converted the majority Sunni Muslim Iran into Shia Islam 500 years ago by importing Arab Shia Ulama and forcefully converting people and massacring them.

Safavid conversion of Iran to Shia Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Educate yourself please.

The remaining of your rambling is untrue historically speaking. If you care to read what I have written, pure facts, you would realize this. Only a idiot, excuse my language, would blame one sole revolt in one province (Hijaz) for the downfall of a whole Empire!

Yet it was not the Arabs who abolished the Ottoman Empire and turned Turkey secular but the same Turkish nationalists that cry today about the Ottoman Empire and who contributed the most to its downfall. Ironic ah?

Israle is a British creation. The Arab world like all of the non-European world by few exceptions at that time was under either British, French or American influence. The Brits carved out Israel not the Arabs.

What is now Palestine was a British colony from 1919 until 1947. Hence they could do what they wanted with it. And even if we assume that most Arabs wanted a Jewish state (which is a lie but anyway let's play along that thought) then nobody expected them to become like they are today especially not the generation that survived the Holocaust.

Apology accepted.

Im not here to discuss how the Arab Sunni-Shia split occurred, just putting it out there that it was an Arab blunder due to internal Arab struggle for the seat of power (not much different from Arabs of today, it seems old habits die hard).

Iran didn't exist in the year 632 during the Arab Muslim Sectarian division in which Shia Islam has its origins. So Persians can't be held accountable for that, rather Arabs are blame worthy. Safavid forced conversion of Iranians to Shia Islam was just a product of the Arab Sunni-Shia sectarianism.

Shia Iran is a Arab product.


Secondly, i see you're trying to downplay the Arab assistance to Zionist colonial powers in their war against a Muslim nation and thus occupation of Muslim Holy lands.

Israle is a British creation. The Arab world like all of the non-European world by few exceptions at that time was under either British, French or American influence.

And so the Arabs chose to be under British influence rather than Muslim Turkish.

The Brits carved out Israel not the Arabs.

On the map, yes. But the Arabs played the key role on the ground.

Why mention him then? Like it was news that there were great non-Arab Muslim generals.

Just putting it put there that non-Arabs played a very significant role in Islamic history, after all 80% of Worlds Muslim population is non-Arab. Though, i'm glad you got the gist.

 

[al-Hasani]

No,its a fantasy that you allways come up with your version of History about Arabs did this Arabs did that,the ottomans were Arabized,we didnt rule over you etc..
Not y definition at all,you were still living in tents when the English came to help you against the Ottoans and here you are talking about culture,what culture?
You are lucky to have oil cause without oil you would have been like Somalia.
So dont act like your people ever achieved anything before WWI.
I know you will come with another history book about what Arabs did,so nothing new there.

Yes, that's the dumb in you. The Arab world have the oldest civilizations in the world and the Arab Caliphates and Arabs built the greatest cities of the ancient world (Baghdad, Cordoba etc.) and many others and ruled the biggest and greatest Muslim Empires when Turks still lived on the Central Asian Steppe and in Mongolia and here you are talking about culture?

Yemenis built the first skyscrapers before the word Turk even was invented. Over 2000 years ago. The Greeks and Romans called it Arabia Felix. Happy Arabia. The same Yemen who has one of the oldest civilizations.

Yes, nothing. But you rule the world. The Arabs are successful in any field everywhere. For instance the world richest man is an Arab. Steve Job was an Arab. There are countless of famous Arab poets, scientists, scholars, billionaires, businessmen etc. I would not compare yourself with nearly 450 million people and their achievements with all due respect.

The 3.5 million Arab-Americans for instance are on average richer and better educated than the average American by a considerable margin.

 

[Desert Fox]

Yes, Arabs are the original Muslims as being the first Muslims. I have not talked about any second-class Muslims so that is your own invention here.

Adam and Eve (AS) are the original Muslims.

 

[Hyperion]

If everyone wants to go way back into history.... then check this out:

Gokturkler

 

[good_boy]

There are many

Stating facts is not supremacy. But that's something people with no arguments rely to when they have been outclassed in a debate. Funny that you mention supremacy when you a few minutes prior were badmouthing and generalizing on the second largest ethnic group in the world after the Han Chinese. Talk about an own goal.

Yet the vast majority of Salah-ad-Din army was Arab and he was totally Arabized (spoke Arabic as his first language) and was born on Arab soil. Nor is Salah-ad-Din even the best Muslim general. He is one of the many greats.

Yet, nobody has talked about this or even denied this. Likewise the same can be said about the hundreds of Arab scientists, scholars, poets, imams etc.

Good day to you too.

There is difference between Arabic speaking and being arab genetically. Don't claim all those people who speak arabic as arabs historically.

 

[olcayto]

Adam and Eve (AS) are the original Muslims.

They are Arab according to our simitçi

what a guy he's

 

[al-Hasani]

There are many


There is difference between Arabic speaking and being arab genetically. Don't claim all those people who speak arabic as arabs historically.

Yet the people who call themselves Turks today have little genetic affinity with the real Turks who live on the Central Asian Steppe and in Siberia today but they have no problem calling themselves Turk. Let alone in terms of looks.

Besides all the people who are Arab today have Arab blood in them (genetic tests show this) and before the word Arab all of them were Semitic people. Hence why non-Semitic people were not Arabized. That is the reason why Iranians and other non-Semitic people next by still speak Farsi although it has been heavily influenced by Arabic. Let alone their Arabic alphabet they use etc.

Anyway I know that you are that troll who was banned and who appeared a few days ago again (Tuesday).

Adam and Eve (AS) are the original Muslims.

We are talking about the first group of people. Don't make stupid comments when you know what I mean and what I am referring to. Islam was first really spread when Prophet Muhammad (saws) appeared and united his people the Arabs. The final messenger of Allah (swt). Claiming otherwise is a lie.

Well, for me your mindset is clear. Let's leave it to readers to decide.



As if there were Muslim states to around you to conquer at that time.



As if you could conquer South East Asia with a landing forces in middle ages.

Ok. Yet you are making up quotes and claims that I have not written. For instance I have never talked about any second class Muslims that you are implying falsely. Nor do I care if you think so. To be honest with you since I have never written this nor do I believe in such a thing.

There were plenty. Arab fought against Arab just like Turks fought against Turks during the Ottoman Empire.

Yes, that was possible. Ever heard about a navy? Arabs controlled the naval trade routes at that time for hundreds of years hence they even reached that part of the world thousands of km away from the ME.

 

[TurAr]

It is amazing how a monkey on top of his camel can be so nationalist that he can insult other nations out of blue, without a reason whatsoever, and spread lies about them, in order to overcome his complexes.

I have made my first encounter with this slave in the other thread, and faced with insults immediately. No need to reason with him, just put him back to his place and be done with it.