F-7P and F-7PG

[GriffinsRule]

Sure, but these hi-vis schemes are not used by other airforces in frontline combat, the Egyptians do.

They haven't seen combat though since the 70s where airpower was employed

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Imran Khan]

View attachment 725584

its pure junk now

 

[syed_yusuf]

its pure junk now

Why u think it is a junk

 

[GumNaam]

its pure junk now

I've faced off with the mig-21s in DCS...in close range combat, it is worth its weight in gold. and that's the russian mig-21 DCS version built upon russian specs. The Chinese version is far better, especially the G versions.

 

[araz]

I've faced off with the mig-21s in DCS...in close range combat, it is worth its weight in gold. and that's the russian mig-21 DCS version built upon russian specs. The Chinese version is far better, especially the G versions.

Agreed. However, in the current scenario, with its short range small radar and therefore limited or no access to a BVR, it will remain a liability. in any war theatre other than as a last resort as a point defence fighter. Therein lies its problem. With the Mirages even if they do not have BVRs they still have a niche role as a ground attack fighter and excel in that role. The PGs maybe good point defence fighter but in the modern war arena will they be able to hold their own? I think one's answer has to be negative.
A

 

[CriticalThought]

Agreed. However, in the current scenario, with its short range small radar and therefore limited or no access to a BVR, it will remain a liability. in any war theatre other than as a last resort as a point defence fighter. Therein lies its problem. With the Mirages even if they do not have BVRs they still have a niche role as a ground attack fighter and excel in that role. The PGs maybe good point defence fighter but in the modern war arena will they be able to hold their own? I think one's answer has to be negative.
A

So you are saying point defence is not worth performing?

 

[arjunk]

Agreed. However, in the current scenario, with its short range small radar and therefore limited or no access to a BVR, it will remain a liability. in any war theatre other than as a last resort as a point defence fighter. Therein lies its problem. With the Mirages even if they do not have BVRs they still have a niche role as a ground attack fighter and excel in that role. The PGs maybe good point defence fighter but in the modern war arena will they be able to hold their own? I think one's answer has to be negative.
A

F-7PGs can be scattered across the country on highways/motorways to take off and engage in dogfights with nearby enemy aircraft. Hell, heat seeking missiles can even be used to shoot down other missiles - While a pilot may be reluctant to risk their life doing this, an unmanned F-7PG could perform this task well.

 

[ghazi52]

Syed Zohaib Zaidi Photography
tg1mS6ptonsoredhc ·

DASHINGS...!

 

[denel]

So you are saying point defence is not worth performing?

I see this as an alternative, you can use them on the western sector instead. Point defence remains relevant and these do perform extremely well with very low maintenance. On the eastern sector, the situation becomes very different through with heavy BVR and S400 threats emerging where EW/ECCM advantage is needed.

 

[araz]

So you are saying point defence is not worth performing?

The range of most modern fighters is such that their loitering time will be much more. JFT for instance can be on station for upto 2-3hrs against 55 minutes for PGs. Lack of BVR also makes it at a-serious disadvantage.
A

 

[GumNaam]

Agreed. However, in the current scenario, with its short range small radar and therefore limited or no access to a BVR, it will remain a liability. in any war theatre other than as a last resort as a point defence fighter. Therein lies its problem. With the Mirages even if they do not have BVRs they still have a niche role as a ground attack fighter and excel in that role. The PGs maybe good point defence fighter but in the modern war arena will they be able to hold their own? I think one's answer has to be negative.
A

so, oddly enough, me and a couple of online buddies of mine tested this scenario out on DCS with the adversary being bvr armed f15s and f16s. I flew the JF-17 with SD10s, a couple of others flew the JF-17s and F-16s also with SD10s and AMRAAMS respectively...we had 1 pair (so two players) flying mig-21s with WVR r73 missiles...we wanted to test out the theory that what if we send the the enemy on the run trying to dodge the SD10s and AIM120s while the migs went in close for the kill. in the first scenario, we fired our BVRs first so the enemy f15s and f16s were totally caught diving to save themselves while our migs went in for the kill. in the second run, both teams fired off their BVRs so both of us were diving, jinking and running...but even then, the migs got a free run to go in for the kill while the enemy was occupied with our missiles...all in all, it came out to be a pretty solid strategy, we had a number of instances where the enemy had successfully dodged our BVRs and drained em out of energy but then ended up getting shot down by the migs. end of the day, in both scenarios, they got shot down, we got shot down (but not me), but in both scenarios, the piddly little migs with no bvrs or long range radars, they got away without a scratch.

DCS is just super awesome man!!! try it out with the oculus headset...I'm talkin' total emersion, you are actually inside the aircraft all around in the fight!!!

 

[ghazi52]

F-7P and F-7PG

TYPE: .........................Fighter and Close Support Aircraft.

PROGRAMME HISTORY

A license to manufacture MiG-21F-13 and its engine (R-11F-300) was granted to China by Soviet Union in early 60s. In the start CKD kits along with some primary documentation were provided by Soviets but then due to changing political relations necessary technical documentation which would have allowed complete manufacture of MiG-21 in China was withheld. Assembly of first J-7 from Chinese-made components was started in early 1964. The static testing of first Shenyang-built J-7 was completed in November 1965 and first test flight took place on 17 January 1966. The Chengdu centre began production of J-7I’s in June 1967, followed by development work on J-7II variant in 1975. The first flight of J-7II was conducted on 30 December 1978 with production approval granted on September 1979. Over the years many improved variants were produced, which are summarized in the table below.

Variant ........... Remarks

J-7 ...... Initial licence version using Chinese-made components built at Shenyang in limited numbers. Followed by J-7I (at Chengdu) version for PLA Air Force, with variable intake shock cone and second 30 mm gun. J-7I was not accepted in large numbers, due mainly to unsatisfactory escape system (front-hinged canopy, to which ejection seat was attached).

F-7A ..... Export version of J-7I, supplied to Albania and Tanzania.
F-7B .....Export version of J-7II with R550 Magic missile capability, supplied to Eqypt, Iraq and Sudan.

F-7BS ..... Modified version of F-7B supplied to Sri Lanka in 1991.
F-7M ........'Airguard' is an upgraded export version developed from J-7II with Western avionics (GEC-Marconi Avionics HUDWAC, new ranging radar, air data computer, radar altimeter, IFF, secure communication radio etc.) The electrical power generation system was also improved to support the new avionics. Additional improvments were, two additional underwing stores points; improved WP7B(BM) engine; birdproof windscreen; strengthened landing gear; ability to carry PL-7 air-to-air missiles; nose probe relocated from beneath intake to top lip of intake, offset to starboard.

F-7P ...... 'Airguard' (briefly called Skybolt) is a variant of F7M, embodying 24 modifications to meet specific requirements of Pakistan Air Force, including ability to carry four air-to-air missiles (Sidewinders) instead of two and fitment of Martin-Baker Mk 10L ejection seat.

F-7MP ......A further modified variant of F-7P with improved cockpit layout and navigation system incorporating Collins AN/ARN-147 VOR/ILS receiver, AN/ARN-149 ADF and Pro Line II digital DME-42. Avionics (contract for up to 100 sets) delivered to China from early 1989. FIAR Grifo 7 fire-control radar (range of more than 30 n miles; 55 km; 34 miles) for F-7P and MP were orderd ordered by Pakistan Air Force in 1993 to replace GMAv Skyranger.

J-7III ...... Chinese equivalent of MiG-21MF, much redesigned from J-7I with blown flaps and all-weather, day/night capability.
J-7E
Upgraded version of J-7II with modified, double-delta wing, retaining existing leading-edge sweep angle of 57° inboard but reduced sweep of only 42° outboard. Wing span has been increased by 1.17 m (3 ft 10 in) and area by 1.88 m{2} (20.2 sq ft), giving 8.17 per cent more wing area. Also has four underwing stations instead of two with outer pair each plumbed for 480 litre (127 US gallon; 106 Imp gallon) drop tank. New WP7F version of WP7 engine, rated at 44.1 kN (9,921 lb st) dry and 63.7 kN (14,330 lb st) with afterburning. Armament generally listed as same as for F-7M, but capability extended to include PL-8 air-to-air missiles. G limits of 8 (up to M0.8) and 6.5 (above M0.8).

F-7MG .... Improved version of F-7M (G suffix indicates gai: modified), combining double-delta wings of J-7E with upgraded avionics and other changes including uprated (WP13F) engine and leading/trailing-edge manoeuvring flaps. Said to have 45 per cent better manoeuvrability than F-7M. Pakistani version is knows as F-7PG.

FT-7 ...... Tandem two-seat operational trainer based on J-7II and MiG-21US.


Service with Pakistan Air Force

The PAF has two F-7 variants in service. F-7P ‘Skybolt’ which is a variant of the F-7M ‘Airguard’ and F-7PG, which is a variant of F-7MG. There are also two-seater variants, FT-7 and FT-7PG to support the conversion of pilots to F-7P and F-7PG respectively.

The F-7M was evaluated by PAF in early 1987 and for this purpose two aircraft were ferried to Pakistan and trials were conducted at Peshawar and Masroor Air Bases. The evaluation included both air-to-air and air-to-ground performance. After the evaluation, 20 F-7Ps and four FT-7s were ordered and these were delivered to No. 20 Squadron in November 1988.

This was followed by delivery of sixty F-7Ps in 1988-89, fifteen FT-7s in 1990-1992 and forty F-7Ps in 1993. In total 135 aircraft were delivered and these equipped six squadrons and also a squadron of Combat Commanders School. All F-7Ps were ferried to Pakistan by PAF pilots.

Later in service, due to operational limitations with existing Sky Ranger 7M GEC Marconi radar, tenders were floated by the PAF in South Africa and Italy for developing a combat mode, small, very economical, but effective radar for PAF’s F-7 aircraft. The Italian FIAT Company was selected out of many of the most reputed radar developing companies, as its offer was very economical and sound.

The contact to co-produce 100 Grifo-7 radars by FIAT and KARF at PAC Kamra was signed in June 1993. After the production the facility was converted into depot level maintenance for this radar.

Evaluation of F-7PG (F-7MG) was carried out by PAF pilots in Chengdu in July 1997. In total 12 sorties were flown to in which complete flight regime was explored, with particular focus on the improvements in performance of the already in-service F-7P. 57 F-7PG (including nine FT-7PG) were ordered in late 2000 to replace the F-6 flown by No. 17 and No. 23 Squadrons. Deliveries began in June 2001.

DESIGN FEATURES

Diminutive tailed delta (double-delta on F-7PG), with clipped tips to mid-mounted wings; circular-section fuselage with dorsal spine; nose intake with conical centrebody; swept tail, with large vertical surfaces and ventral fin. Wing anhedral 2° from roots; incidence 0°; thickness/chord ratio approximately 5 per cent at root, 4.2 per cent at tip; quarter-chord sweepback 49° 6' 36" (reduced on F-7PG outer panels); no wing leading-edge camber.

FLYING CONTROLS

Manual operation, with auto stabilisation in pitch and roll; hydraulically boosted inset ailerons; plain trailing-edge flaps, actuated hydraulically; forward-hinged door type airbrake each side of under fuselage below wing leading-edge; third, forward-hinged airbrake under fuselage forward of ventral fin; airbrakes actuated hydraulically; hydraulically boosted rudder and all-moving, trimmable tailplane. Leading/trailing-edge maneuvering flaps on F-7PG.

STRUCTURE

All-metal; wings have two primary spars and auxiliary spar; semi-monologue fuselage, with spine housing control pushrods, avionics, single-point refueling cap and fuel tank; blister fairings on fuselage above and below each wing to accommodate retracted mainwheels.

LANDING GEAR

Inward-retracting mainwheels, with 600 x 200 mm tyres (pressure 11.50 bars; 167 lb/sq in) and LS-16 disc brakes; forward-retracting nosewheel, with 500 x 180 mm tyre (pressure 7.00 bars; 102 lb/sq in) and LS-15 double-acting brake. Nosewheel steerable +-47°. Minimum ground turning radius 7.04 m (23 ft 1{1/4} in). Tail braking parachute at base of vertical tail.

POWER PLANT

One LMC (Liyang) WP7B(BM) turbojet (43.2 kN; 9,700 lb st dry, 59.8 kN; 13,448 lb st with afterburning) in F-7M; LMC WP13 turbojet (40.2 kN; 9,039 lb st dry, 64.7 kN; 14,550 lb st with afterburning) in J-7 III/F7-3; WP13F (44.1 kN; 9,921 lb st dry, 64.7 kN; 14,550 lb st with afterburning) in F-7PG.

Total internal fuel capacity 2,385 litres (630 US gallons; 524.5 Imp gallons, contained in six flexible tanks in fuselage and two integral tanks in each wing. Provision for carrying a 500 or 800 litre (132 or 211 US gallon; 110 or 176 Imp gallon) centreline drop tank, and/or a 500 litre drop tank on each outboard underwing pylon. Maximum internal/external fuel capacity 4,185 litres (1,105 US gallons; 920.5 Imp gallons).

ACCOMMODATION

Pilot only, on CAC zero-height/low-speed ejection seat operable between 70 and 459 kt (130 and 850 km/h; 81 and 528 mph) IAS. Martin-Baker Mk 10L seat in F-7P/PP. One-piece canopy, hinged at rear to open upward. J-7 III/F7-3 canopy opens sideways to starboard.

SYSTEMS

Improved electrical system in F-7M, using three static inverters, to cater for additional avionics. Jianghuai YX-3 oxygen system.

AVIONICS

Comms: GMAv AD 3400 UHF/VHF multifunction com, Chinese Type 602 IFF transponder; Type 605A (`Odd Rods' type) IFF in J-7III.

Radar: FIAR Grifo-7 in F-7P/PG. Chinese JL-7 fire-control radar in J-7III.

Flight: Navigation function of GEC-Marconi HUDWAC includes approach mode. WL-7 radio compass, XS-6A marker beacon receiver, Type 0101 HR A/2 radar altimeter and GMAv air data computer in F-7M. Beijing Aeronautical Instruments Factory KJ-11 twin-channel autopilot and FJ-1 flight data recorder in J-7III. F-7PG suite includes VOR/DME/INS and Tacan.

Instrumentation:
GMAv Type 956 HUDWAC (head-up display and weapon aiming computer) in F-7M provides pilot with displays for instrument flying, with air-to-air and air-to-ground weapon aiming symbols integrated with flight-instrument symbology. It can store 32 weapon parameter functions, allowing for both current and future weapon variants. In air-to-air combat its four modes (missiles, conventional gunnery, snapshoot gunnery, dogfight) and standby aiming reticle allow for all eventualities. VCR and infrared cockpit lighting in F-7PG, for which licence-built Russian helmet sight, slaved to PL-9 AAM, is also in production.

Self-defence: Skyranger ECCM in F-7M. Chinese LJ-2 RWR and GT-4 ECM jammer in J-7III.


ARMAMENT

(F-7M): Two 30 mm Type 30-1 belt-fed cannon, with 60 rds/gun, in fairings under front fuselage just forward of wingroot leading-edges. Two hardpoints under each wing, of which outer ones are wet for carriage of drop tanks. Centreline pylon used for drop tank only. Each inboard pylon capable of carrying a PL-2, -2A, -5B or -7 missile (and PL-9 on F-7PG) or, at customer's option, an R550 Magic; one 18-tube pod of Type 57-2 (57 mm) air-to-air and air-to-ground rockets; one Type 90-1 (90 mm) seven-tube pod of air-to-ground rockets; or a 50, 150, 250 or 500 kg bomb. Each outboard pylon can carry one of above rocket pods, a 50 or 150 kg bomb, or a 500 litre drop tank.

 

[StructE]

The best use of F-7 can be conversion to a Mach-2, terrain hugging Cruise Missile.

 

[aliyusuf]

The best use of F-7 can be conversion to a Mach-2, terrain hugging Cruise Missile.

Well, nice thought.
Whether it will be even supersonic at terrain hugging altitudes, is a moot question, to say the least.