F-60 / J-31 stealth fighter aircraft for Pakistan Air Force?

[Viper0011.]

The axe is about to fall on the J-10B.

I've said it many times. J-10B shouldn't be purchased. I'd go with J-11 with J-16's avionics. A few squadrons of those will create a tremendous air superiority aspect of things plus it'll allow the PAF to have a few more much tested Russian BVR platforms. So your BVR force will be much versatile. SD-10's code and capability may leak out just like the Chinese themselves steal other's secrets. The US AMRAAM's capability is already known by many countries so India would already know that. But added these in a mix with the Russian BVR platforms, it creates an interesting and diverse dynamic and hard to understand what'll come type of a scenario when you are flying against a PAF's jet.
Plus, a very few J-11's can maintain a defensive posture due to their sheer size and advance avionics (if taken from the J-16). A few squadrons of these for the PAF and for the Navy will have tremendous impact. Produce more JFT's for the main defensive tier. Use J-11's and F-16's for the higher end tier. And do whatever you can to get rid of these barbaric terrorists so that your country can become a safe investment zone and your economy can take off. Then you can go buy J-31 or if your economy is doing great.....even the JSF may be an option.

 

[Kompromat]

@orangzaib

If the economy was good, what you propse is ideal. However,on the pragmatic side of things, the Navy is going to stick its boat with the JF-17, since the Indian Navy isn't going stealth anytime soon.

For the PAF things are not easy as they haven't received much funding since 2007. Its heavily indebted right now, so i expect a lull period till 2020. With WS-13 being certified for production, the J-31 due to the same engine class as the JF-17 might become an irresistable option, due to the obvious perks attached to a singular powerplant.

 

[S.Y.A]

i say retire the whole mirage and f7 fleet and put all the money that we save from not maintaining them into jf-17 improvement and development.and also some SAM platforms, would be quite a lot of money since they make up about 70-75% of our air force. and will be totally useless in modern warfare against rafales and super sukhois

 

[Storm Force]

You want fight Su30mki fleet with the jf17 until 2020. That wil leave you with a massive firepower technology and range disadvantage. Lightweight fighters only would be a disaster for paf doctrine. The paf need a mmrca in much larger nos any fool can see that need

 

[Chak Bamu]

@orangzaib, I do not think that Russians would be amused by the prospect of Pakistan using Russian technology without Russia benefiting out of it. I see Russia getting uncomfortable as China gains influence in Central Asia and assuming Chinese influence coming to our aid with Russian technology is a bit too much as it is. As far as I can see there is little or no chance of us getting SU-27 versions without involving Russia in any such deal and certainly we have no money for any of that. This is just a day dream. I would like at least our Navy to get a squadron of these birds, but it is only a wish.

@Aeronaut, unfortunately JF-17 does not have the legs to keep IN well clear and out of the way. We would need a dedicated refueler based in Karachi and even then we would need JF-17s in good numbers in air to have enough fire power to be a serious threat. We have to make do with it not out of choice, but out of compulsion. But it is not a Bad choice as such, merely an adequate one.

@Storm Force, we do not need to counter everything that India brings up. Our doctrine is defensive and based on inflicting unacceptable losses in case of hostilities. If there is ever a war, it would likely be started by India and JF-17 supported by AWACS, and air defenses in own airspace would certainly not be a walk-over for any aircraft in IAF inventory as of now. Unless opposing air craft exchange more than four missiles each, JF-17 would not be found wanting in any way.

Your day dreams are a substitute for your personal inadequacies and I suggest you visit a Shrink rather than waste your and our time here at PDF.

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i say retire the whole mirage and f7 fleet and put all the money that we save from not maintaining them into jf-17 improvement and development.and also some SAM platforms, would be quite a lot of money since they make up about 70-75% of our air force. and will be totally useless in modern warfare against rafales and super sukhois

First, there are no Rafales in IAF. Second, PAF has a doctrine and it requires X number of aircraft with A, B, C capabilities. If we were to remove 70% of our air force, our doctrine, capacity, and capability would be totally shot. If you wish JF-17 to replace the older airframes to save costs, then indeed that is exactly what PAF is trying to do. I do not see F-7s venturing into hostile airspace. They would likely be point defense fighters and in that role they would be assisted by SAMs too. Moreover, any attackers would have to come through at least one line of defense. So, throwing away F-7s just like that makes no sense without having anything to replace it first. Mirages equipped with FLIR, Ra'ad, stand off weapons would still make themselves useful while operating under protection of F-16s aided by AWACS and JF-17s also.

We are better off trying to improve our relations with India, than spending money on defense; money that we do not have to begin with.

Apart from the above, I am all for J-31 and I would not mind Pakistan being the first to introduce stealth in this region, if possible. By 2022 we ought to be doing much better. And if we do not squander our resources, we should be able to afford a couple of squadrons.

 

[Hafizzz]

I doubt if the Chinese would be willing to export the J-20.

Twin-engined jets are cool!

Why not ? Pakistan is China's all weather ally.

 

[Storm Force]

J20 is not for export full stop.
J31 is in intial deveopment stage only again no idea of induction date or price or export plans so masive assumptions by you people again.

Stil leaves you with nothing bar 63 f16s for next decade and your Sam capability is very modest. You people have nothing like India s300 system no indengious system like akash which u may produce in large nos at home and not the willingness to spend on hi end new generation same like the Israeli supplied Barak and spyder sams India are receiving.

So I don't get these we have sams business you keep claimimg elta jammers in iaf are world class israeli supplied equipment and wil disruption on your radars and limited sams with ease

Before you worry about getting s fifth gen fighter which is 15 years away think abt the massive gaps you have now.

As I see it get thru your awacs and 63f16s the rest is modest oaf capability

 

[subanday]

Well said

Even if we operate Mashak and K-8s only, you will not come up against us. Please allow me to sneak in a single Babur nuke tipped CM to ur bases like Bhatinda, Bareilly, Chabua, Halwara, Jodhpur, Pune, Tezpur, Sirsa hosting ur pride Su30mki and lets c what ur AF can do ..... cheers

J20 is not for export full stop.
J31 is in intial deveopment stage only again no idea of induction date or price or export plans so masive assumptions by you people again.

Stil leaves you with nothing bar 63 f16s for next decade and your Sam capability is very modest. You people have nothing like India s300 system no indengious system like akash which u may produce in large nos at home and not the willingness to spend on hi end new generation same like the Israeli supplied Barak and spyder sams India are receiving.

So I don't get these we have sams business you keep claimimg elta jammers in iaf are world class israeli supplied equipment and wil disruption on your radars and limited sams with ease

Before you worry about getting s fifth gen fighter which is 15 years away think abt the massive gaps you have now.

As I see it get thru your awacs and 63f16s the rest is modest oaf capability

 

[Chak Bamu]

J20 is not for export full stop.
J31 is in intial deveopment stage only again no idea of induction date or price or export plans so masive assumptions by you people again.

Stil leaves you with nothing bar 63 f16s for next decade and your Sam capability is very modest. You people have nothing like India s300 system no indengious system like akash which u may produce in large nos at home and not the willingness to spend on hi end new generation same like the Israeli supplied Barak and spyder sams India are receiving.

So I don't get these we have sams business you keep claimimg elta jammers in iaf are world class israeli supplied equipment and wil disruption on your radars and limited sams with ease

Before you worry about getting s fifth gen fighter which is 15 years away think abt the massive gaps you have now.

As I see it get thru your awacs and 63f16s the rest is modest oaf capability

Mercifully no capital letters this time. Did you visit your shrink?

Same old, same old. You never tire of posting same narrow focused rubbish again and again! Why has India not attacked Pakistan since 1971 if you all think you have such superior weapons. Obviously all is not as it seems. I see a definite psychological problem in you that goads to post jingoistic rubbish.

Any mine-is-bigger-than-yours eventually boils down to nuclear exchange. With that in mind, you are welcome to attack us with whatever you have got. Until you do that, keep it cool.

 

[MZUBAIR]

We cant buy more JF17's, submarines, helo's , 3rs Sqd of JF17 is haulted for year and so, J10B is still under development , more then half of F16's are less then 4th generation n people are here thinking about J31

 

[Storm Force]

Why has the jf17 stopped at 2 dads. Wat is the issue

Coming back to the thread does anybody have even a clue Wat this j31 wil cost and when it may be available if ever.

Now remember opening a thread on Wat we hope happens does not mean its coming.

Fc20/j10 thread opened in 2007 by you people over 200 in service in plaaf yet pat nowhere near getting one despite thread after thtread for 7 years.

Even worse example look at Indian mmrca joke purchase.

This is why we should concentrate on Wat we have not fanboys wishes or my uncle said

 

[That Guy]

Why has the jf17 stopped at 2 dads. Wat is the issue

Coming back to the thread does anybody have even a clue Wat this j31 wil cost and when it may be available if ever.

Now remember opening a thread on Wat we hope happens does not mean its coming.

Fc20/j10 thread opened in 2007 by you people over 200 in service in plaaf yet pat nowhere near getting one despite thread after thtread for 7 years.

Even worse example look at Indian mmrca joke purchase.

This is why we should concentrate on Wat we have not fanboys wishes or my uncle said

I think i've already discussed this with you a few months ago.

The third squad of the JF-17 has been met with delays because of financial constraints.

All we know about the J-31 is that it will be cheaper and will only be available after AT LEAST 2017, no guarantees. PAF has no real desire to induct anything more than a 4th gen right now, and will only consider 5th gens once India gets it's FGFAs up and running.

The FC-20's deadline was 2014-15, so we still have at least 1-2 years left for the fighters to be inducted into PAF. Though, there are indications that the FC-20 purchase may get axed for another fighter, but it's too early to say which one that will be. The ones in PLAAF service are J-10As, while PAF is only interested in J-10Bs and above.

 

[Storm Force]

Financial constraints on jf17 stopped third squadron.

These are very modest costs and a fraction of Wat a potential fc20 may cost.

I Dred to think Wat a j31 may cost.

 

[jupiter2007]

Financial constraints on jf17 stopped third squadron.

These are very modest costs and a fraction of Wat a potential fc20 may cost.

I Dred to think Wat a j31 may cost.

Only way we can afford them if Nawaz Sharif stop any foreign trip in next 12 months because he likes to spend money like water.

 

[That Guy]

Only way we can afford them if Nawaz Sharif stop any foreign trip in next 12 months because he likes to spend money like water.

Foreign trips are needed to build and maintain relations with foreign nations, and that's not to mention that these trips can also include economic deals and business delegations; The recent trip to Turkey is a clear example of this.

We cant buy more JF17's, submarines, helo's , 3rs Sqd of JF17 is haulted for year and so, J10B is still under development , more then half of F16's are less then 4th generation n people are here thinking about J31

I'm sorry, what? If you're talking about Chinese standards, then yes, but if you're talking about global standards, the F-16 platform is fourth gen through and through.