F-35 racked up a 28:1 kill ratio at recent Red Flag exercises

[Ali_Baba]

Stealth is a game changer. That is why Azm is so important.

 

[waz]

I'm looking forward to seeing the F-35 at RIAT this year.

 

[gambit]

Has it engaged the Raptor?

You can bet your next yr's salary -- has. But not likely the results will be published soon, if ever.

When I transitioned from the F-111 to the F-16 back in '87, I learned that the early test engagements between the F-15 and F-16 were immediately classified, not even pilots who were assigned to the jets were allowed to know. Just because you have a 'Top Secret' clearance, that does not mean you can waltz into any office and demand access to anything. You must have a 'need to know' even for lower clearance material. A clerk can deny you next month's assignment even though that list is only rated 'Confidential' if you have no business on knowing who is going where.

Anyway, the reason was that how the pilots of each jet counter-moved each other would reveal advantages and disadvantages regarding their flight envelopes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_envelope

These test engagements are rigged, and that is a good thing. Rigged tests are variables controlled so that you can better study the aircraft within a narrow field of environment. No different than if you designed a new tire where you incrementally test on dry pavement, then gravel, then sand, then wet, etc. The results of the increasing expanding test engagements eventually contribute to combat doctrines unique to the aircraft.

With 'stealth' vs 'stealth', there is no telling what was found specifics to the capabilities of each jet. What this mean is that we already have a tactical advantage in knowing certain combat situations where 'stealth' have clear superiority and where not so. You cannot have this knowledge in 'stealth' vs 'non-stealth'.

Russia? Dismissed. The Russian fanbois will not like it, but that is the harsh reality.

China? Ten laps behind and not closing, no matter how much the Chinese members and their friends may protest.

 

[CriticalThought]

Would someone please trot out Pierre Sprey? The F-35 haters need a fix.

You can say that once the F-35 scores an actual kill in an actual battle against the likes of Russia and China.

 

[Yaseen1]

f35 was crashed n japan and it crashed multiple times in recent years so it is not best jet and in real combat it may give different results than in exercise.28:1 seems that it killed mosquitoes instead of jets and seems unrealistic

 

[CriticalThought]

You can bet your next yr's salary -- has. But not likely the results will be published soon, if ever.

When I transitioned from the F-111 to the F-16 back in '87, I learned that the early test engagements between the F-15 and F-16 were immediately classified, not even pilots who were assigned to the jets were allowed to know. Just because you have a 'Top Secret' clearance, that does not mean you can waltz into any office and demand access to anything. You must have a 'need to know' even for lower clearance material. A clerk can deny you next month's assignment even though that list is only rated 'Confidential' if you have no business on knowing who is going where.

Anyway, the reason was that how the pilots of each jet counter-moved each other would reveal advantages and disadvantages regarding their flight envelopes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_envelope

These test engagements are rigged, and that is a good thing. Rigged tests are variables controlled so that you can better study the aircraft within a narrow field of environment. No different than if you designed a new tire where you incrementally test on dry pavement, then gravel, then sand, then wet, etc. The results of the increasing expanding test engagements eventually contribute to combat doctrines unique to the aircraft.

With 'stealth' vs 'stealth', there is no telling what was found specifics to the capabilities of each jet. What this mean is that we already have a tactical advantage in knowing certain combat situations where 'stealth' have clear superiority and where not so. You cannot have this knowledge in 'stealth' vs 'non-stealth'.

Russia? Dismissed. The Russian fanbois will not like it, but that is the harsh reality.

China? Ten laps behind and not closing, no matter how much the Chinese members and their friends may protest.

I don't know what all the chest thumping is about. You guys could have done 'stealth' vs 'stealth' with a pair of raptors. No need for F-35 (which doesn't even have a proper nickname). Duh!!!

 

[The Accountant]

Well f35 currently is proving to be a beast but scenarios do matter ... so what r the scnarios in which they were being used ...

For example putting a 5th generation against 4th generation ... results r obvious ... this is similar to putting f16s against f86s or stat fighter ...

The real test would have been performance against other stealth fighters ...

Secondly while strength of f35 is stealth based but what if the chinese claims r also true that they have a working radar capable of early detection of stealth aircrafts ? (Kindly note that i am taking claims from both the countries on its face value)

Offcourse in any case f35 is going to dominate the rest of the world for atleast a decade or 2 but real test of f35 will be against china ... will it give similar kill ratio when pitted against j20 in a highly dense electeonic warfare environment with active and passive sensors ? The moment f35 open the radars for target aquisition it will expose herself to the adversary and stealth will be gone unless f35 is being used in a strike mode ... kindly dont cosider awacs role as they were not be flying close to the danger zone otherwise would be takenout with VLRAAM

Will the kill ratio be same ? I think it will not even closer ... kindly share your peofessional analysis without national biases...

 

[gambit]

You can say that once the F-35 scores an actual kill in an actual battle against the likes of Russia and China.

How about we turn that around? But then again, the Soviet fighters did not do too well in Desert Storm.

I don't know what all the chest thumping is about. You guys could have done 'stealth' vs 'stealth' with a pair of raptors.

Maybe we did. Maybe we did not. There is no need to keep everyone in the loop.

No need for F-35 (which doesn't even have a proper nickname). Duh!!!

My F-111 was feared by the Soviets. That fear was confirmed by Adolf Tolkachev. The F-111 did not have an official name until its retirement: Aardvark. Imagine that, an American combat fighter with a name of an animal not native to CONUS. But do you think we give a shit what you think? If the lack of an official name is the best criticism you can have against the F-35, the world, especially countries that must import their defense from Russia and China, should be nervous.

f35 was crashed n japan and it crashed multiple times in recent years so it is not best jet and in real combat it may give different results than in exercise.28:1 seems that it killed mosquitoes instead of jets and seems unrealistic

Yeah...And am sure you speak from extensive experience in military aviation.

 

[CodeforFood]

The writers noted that the F-35 is doing well in deployments and has racked up “a 28:1 kill ratio at recent Red Flag exercises in Nevada.” More than 380 F-35s are now flying with all three US services—the Navy recently having declared initial operational capability—and in 17 locations worldwide, the letter noted.

http://airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2019/May 2019/Retired-Generals-Press-Congress-to-Fund-More-F-35s-Discourage-Legacy-Buy.aspx

Wow!! that's awesome to hear . People keeps discounting this beast for some odd reason.

 

[CriticalThought]

How about we turn that around? But then again, the Soviet fighters did not do too well in Desert Storm.


Maybe we did. Maybe we did not. There is no need to keep everyone in the loop.


My F-111 was feared by the Soviets. That fear was confirmed by Adolf Tolkachev. The F-111 did not have an official name until its retirement: Aardvark. Imagine that, an American combat fighter with a name of an animal not native to CONUS. But do you think we give a shit what you think? If the lack of an official name is the best criticism you can have against the F-35, the world, especially countries that must import their defense from Russia and China, should be nervous.

If you think my passing jibe at the nickname was 'criticism', you certainly have deep seated insecurities.

It's not about keeping me in the loop. It's about your need to chest thump on useless aspects.

Anyway, we need to look at OP on its own merit. If you actually read the article, it portrays an internal tussle between factions of US military, where the Pentagon seems to be looking at the F-15X and Air Force generals asking for more F-35s. Each group is sponsored by the manufacturers. Usually, in any intelligent debate, when results are presented by 'experts' organized/funded by the manufacturer, it undermines the validity of those results. But since you need to claw on straws in order to retain that myth of superiority, such ethical trivialities do not matter at all.

 

[gambit]

If you think my passing jibe at the nickname was 'criticism', you certainly have deep seated insecurities.

Insecurities?

Am among the few on this forum that have actual military experience. No 'insecurities' here, buddy. I know what we can do.

It's not about keeping me in the loop. It's about your need to chest thump on useless aspects.

Precisely because I know what we can do, it is more than just nationalistic chest thumping. It is full on dick measuring and flag waving.

What 'useless aspects' are you talking about? The ones that no one else has?

But since you need to claw on straws in order to retain that myth of superiority, such ethical trivialities do not matter at all.

I do not need to clutch on straws. I have actually served. You have not. If anyone that clutches on straws, it is the bulk of this forum.

 

[CriticalThought]

Insecurities?

Am among the few on this forum that have actual military experience. No 'insecurities' here, buddy. I know what we can do.


Precisely because I know what we can do, it is more than just nationalistic chest thumping. It is full on dick measuring and flag waving.

What 'useless aspects' are you talking about? The ones that no one else has?


I do not need to clutch on straws. I have actually served. You have not. If anyone that clutches on straws, it is the bulk of this forum.

There is your insecurities about F-35, and there is US air superiority in the present day. Two different things. Let's keep them separate.

 

[Wow]

28:1 huh!!

 

[gambit]

There is your insecurities about F-35, and there is US air superiority in the present day. Two different things. Let's keep them separate.

See post 28. That is true insecurity.

 

[CriticalThought]

See post 28. That is true insecurity.

I went to the internet and got you some fresh straw. Happy clutching