PAFAce
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 1,637
- Reaction score
- 0
MashAllah! What a beaut. Thank you, taimikhan, for this treat.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
MashAllah! What a beaut. Thank you, taimikhan, for this treat.
Would definitely want to know how our F7's fared against other aircrafts, maybe Murad Sahab can help us out on this topic.
Then what you know is either wrong or incomplete.f 22 from what i know is that its a lousy plane in the winter ie. could very could its weapons doors get closed or jam ... and rain? it has no stealth in the rain and every time it costs millions of dollors just for a simple check up? but its a beast a fighter that kills
Hi,
There was no compatibility issue over here. PAF should not have sent its F7's in that excercise---it was useless---there was nothing to learn except to be killed in a different manner in every sortie.
This excercise intself was shown to display the ultimate superiority of the F22 against anything else flying in the air.
Anybody here plays cricket---played aganist a stronger team---which scored 350---400 runs and your team was all out for 50 runs---so what did you learn out of it---nothing---except to play in your own league.
If it was used as a wake up call for the PAF---then it is okay---other than that the only thing to learn is not to mess with the usaf at this time.
f 22 from what i know is that its a lousy plane in the winter ie. could very could its weapons doors get closed or jam ... and rain? it has no stealth in the rain and every time it costs millions of dollors just for a simple check up? but its a beast a fighter that kills
The painting depicts a Royal Saudi Arabian Airforce F-15S of No. 6 Sqn. Releasing flares as a PAF F-16 of No. 11 Sqn makes a head on pass at the start of a dogfight during Al-Saqoor Exercise 2006.
I beg to differ Mastan. There is plenty to learn. You seem to be basing your statement on the assumption that all there is to it is to get up there and do one-on-ones against each other all day long. This is not so.
You learn a lot. You learn how to better prepare you tactics. You learn how they plan for missions. You get insight into their maintenance and logistics just by talking to each other. You realize if you are limited against such an aircraft, whether those limitations apply to a non-5th generation aircraft. Learning is always good and lastly, PAF does not just send any aircraft without reason to such exercises. These are costly affairs with well thought out planning down to specific goals to be achieved with such participation.
Hi,
Your argument seems like the participants are living in ETHER and impotency has no effect over loss---. There is always the human factor at stake when you go into any competition---where only thing that you can represent is ' how many different ways you can be pummelled into submission '---those competitions have never been known to be learing experience for anyone---rather a lesson in futility.
I am just basing this discussion on the F22 and the F 7 pg's---I am pretty sure that there were other fields that pak would have learnt somethings and that is well and good---.
It is just like putting your SKODA against the FERRARI racing team and then saying,' we are here to learn even though you will beats the pants off us '---oh gee---.
For learing experience for F 7 pg fighters, they can be pitched against anything else except the F22, F35, F 15, Typhoon's, su 30's---.
You know why they have different leagues in sports---so that similiar teams can compete against each other---you know why they don't have competition amongst the teams in dissimiliar leagues---because they know that the superior team would pummel the inferior team to kingdom come---the psychology of humiliating defeat would be so great that the losing team will be emotionally pulverized.
if this system was so great and there was such a great learning experience, then light weight boxers would be fighting against the heavy weight boxers---getting pummelled---but they did indeed learn a valuable lesson if they lived through it---DON'T MESS WITH THE BIG DOG.
Exposure to the capabilities of a 5th generation fighter will also leave something to consider for PAF senior officers: What are the strengths of 5th-gen. fighters? Are they worth the expense (
Hi,
Paf will have no clue as to what the strengths of that 5 th gen fighter aka F 22 is---paf will only know what it is told---and trust me on that---it will be equal to hardly anything---minimal---zilch---nada---americans are not telling anyone what the capabilities of the raptor are---they are not telling the british---not the israelis---or the italians the german or the scandinivians---everybody is left in a hole. They will place the best of the best of all the nation against the raptor and take out everyone of them, one at a time or two---as they desire.
It is only left to speculators---whatever information, that is released is already available in general defence forums.
The F 7 pg's were sent to make the americans happy---because the americans wanted to train against the pakistanis for awhile---.
I know that iot hurts the PAKISTANI EGO big time if they hear that their pilots didnot make a difference or didnot put up a fight.
lol...you completely missed the point of my post.Exposure to the capabilities of a 5th generation fighter will also leave something to consider for PAF senior officers: What are the strengths of 5th-gen. fighters? Are they worth the expense (
Hi,
Paf will have no clue as to what the strengths of that 5 th gen fighter aka F 22 is---paf will only know what it is told---and trust me on that---it will be equal to hardly anything---minimal---zilch---nada---americans are not telling anyone what the capabilities of the raptor are---they are not telling the british---not the israelis---or the italians the german or the scandinivians---everybody is left in a hole. They will place the best of the best of all the nation against the raptor and take out everyone of them, one at a time or two---as they desire.
It is only left to speculators---whatever information, that is released is already available in general defence forums.
The F 7 pg's were sent to make the americans happy---because the americans wanted to train against the pakistanis for awhile---.
I know that iot hurts the PAKISTANI EGO big time if they hear that their pilots didnot make a difference or didnot put up a fight.
The PAF isn't concerned about the performance of the F/A-22 in of itself, but 5th-generation fighters. This is the first time the PAF got exposure to "the future" of aerial combat, and needs to know the advantages or disadvantages of pursuing the path of 5th. gen fighters. In other words, 'are they worth all the buzz'? If they're as good as people make them out to be, then the PAF will start investing some of its resources into acquiring this capability within a reasonable and suitable timeframe.
Yes, a debate surrounding the use of 5th. generation fighters does exist...some European countries don't seem too keen on it, and prefer to stick to 4.5+ gen. fighters and invest in their development, as well as in UCAVs. While others around the world (Russia, China, India, Japan, etc) would like this capability, perhaps even in conjunction with 4.5+ gen. fighters - i.e. Australia, India & China.
Thus, the point is that 'did the F/A-22 impress the PAF to the point where it would now seek 5th-generation fighters?' If so, then the PAF will likely pursue it in one of two ways, or both: Lobby for F-35, and/or invest in the Chinese equivalent, which is their second 5th. generation fighter program (source-link).
Even if PAF were to invest in the "Chinese JSF", proper mass induction of this fighter in PAF may not start until the 2030-2040s (when we would see the first JF-17s replaced), hence it's likely an interim solution - such as F-35 - may be sought, especially in context of replacing the older F-16A/Bs. I doubt U.S. would care too much as (1) PAF would have a similar system in the pipeline with China, (2) you can water-down or "customize" a fighter for export, (3) why not make a quick good buck when you can, (4) as if India - with greater espionage and industrial resources than Pakistan won't pull off "funny business" with U.S. technology (5) Pakistan is a Major non-NATO Ally (MNNA).
Secondly, I find it interesting that PAF is sending fighters it can count on as opposed to the absolute best for exercises against top-notch equipment. Clearly, it shows a drive to compare one's mainstay with systems that are comparable - if not superior - to that of your biggest rival. Tells you that plans and tactics are being set into motion for those "days" when F-7s & Mirages will have to take-on giants such as Su-30MKI and MMRCAs.
Once JF-17 is inducted into several squadrons, my guess is that we'll see an "exposure variant" of it exercise with those fighter-titans. This would give the PAF a clear idea of where to strengthen the JF-17, and India a clear message that the capability to deter them is widely spread and diffused within PAF, not concentrated. This is a "major-power" capacity. It's like saying "yes the tip of my sword can pierce your heart, but the body of my blade will break your back..."
That is because the Euros know that if push come to shove, the US will come to Europe's defense with the best we got.lol...you completely missed the point of my post.
The PAF isn't concerned about the performance of the F/A-22 in of itself, but 5th-generation fighters. This is the first time the PAF got exposure to "the future" of aerial combat, and needs to know the advantages or disadvantages of pursuing the path of 5th. gen fighters. In other words, 'are they worth all the buzz'? If they're as good as people make them out to be, then the PAF will start investing some of its resources into acquiring this capability within a reasonable and suitable timeframe.
Yes, a debate surrounding the use of 5th. generation fighters does exist...some European countries don't seem too keen on it, and prefer to stick to 4.5+ gen. fighters and invest in their development, as well as in UCAVs. While others around the world (Russia, China, India, Japan, etc) would like this capability, perhaps even in conjunction with 4.5+ gen. fighters - i.e. Australia, India & China.