F-16 Thread

[Spring Onion]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1704869.cms


F-16 sale to Pakistan a commitment, says US

[ Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:21:57 pmPTI ]



WASHINGTON: Acknowledging Pakistan as a "major non-NATO ally," the Bush administration has said that the proposed sale of F-16 fighter jets to Islamabad demonstrates the United States' commitment to a "long-term relationship" with that country.
"Pakistan is a major non-NATO ally, which has cooperated closely with us in the global war on terror. This proposed sale demonstrates our commitment to a long-term relationship with Pakistan," White House Spokesman Tony Snow told reporters on Monday.
The proposed package is valued at approximately USD five billion, he said adding that the Bush administration has been consulting Congress on the sale since last year.
The White House has also confirmed the specifics of the sale which were sent up to Congress by the Pentagon and the State Department last week.
"The proposed sale includes 18 new F-16 aircraft with an option to purchase another 18 new aircraft, a support package for up to 26 used F-16s, a munitions package, an upgrade package for Pakistan's current fleet of 34 F-16s, and logistical support" the spokesman said.
The break up of the deal that has been provided by the Pentagon will be USD three billion for the new aircrafts, USD 1.3 billion for the refurbishments and USD 700 million for an assortment of munitions for the jets.
The Congress, by law, has 30 days to reject the sale but has rarely done so on such major arms deals. Senior Bush administration officials have been briefing members in the House of Representatives and the Senate and may well be called next week for a formal hearing.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1704869.cms

 

[melb4aust]

Mel u visit PakTribune

good

Now im posting something regarding same

Yes i do visit some times to read news and such stuff .

Its a good news, atleast we have some confirmation that we are getting those birds, with our desired requirements, instead of some unexpected wheat.

Well congradulation to Air Chief, have really done a good job, should keep this up in future as well.:thumbsup:

 

[Neo]

JF-20????? where did u get tat name from? u made it up??? (links plz)

Here's the article and the link;

Pakistan to buy 98 hi-tech aircraft from US and China

ISLAMABAD (April 13 2006): Pakistan will purchase 98 hi-tech aircraft from the United States and China besides missiles and other equipment to improve the capabilities of Pakistan Air Force (PAF).

According to an official document, exclusively obtained by Business Recorder, mixed package of hi-tech aircraft and equipment is being purchased from USA and China are as under:

FC-20 aircraft (36), SD-10 BVR missiles (300), F-16 A/B, ex-Pakistan (26), F-16 C/D (18 with an option for 18 more), BVR, 500(American), targeting pods 18 and joint direct attack munitions (500).

The expenditure on the entire package would be met from PAF share in Armed Forces Development Programme (AFFDP-2019), the document says. The Cabinet, according to the document, has allowed PAF to set up Joint Working Group (JWG) with CATIC for procurement of 36 FC-20 aircraft.

The government would also help PAF in securing long-term credit financing for the FC-20 aircraft from Chinese government, besides allowing PAF to initiate a Letter of Request (LoR) for the F-16 package and equipment through the Defence Ministry.

While elaborating the background, Defence Ministry said that PAF gave a presentation to the President and Prime Minister on the state of present fighter fleet and its various hi-tech aircraft options on March 31, 2006.

At present, PAF's combat fleet consists of around 350 aircraft. The bulk of its inventory comprises old Mirages and Chinese-origin A-5, FT-6 and F-7 aircraft. With the exception of F-7 PGs, most of these aircraft are more than 20 years old and are scheduled to retire between 2008 and 2015.

Foreseeing this retirement schedule and the known difficulties associated with replacing all old aircraft with western equipment, PAF embarked upon the co-development of JF-17 aircraft. The induction of JF-17 has been planned so as to have a systematic replacement of the retired fleet.

Regarding hi-tech capability, PAF has seriously lagged over the years, mainly due to various geo-political and economic constraints. In order to redress this capability deficit, PAF has very carefully evaluated the hi-tech options against well-defined air staff requirements.

The requirement of multi-role aircraft with effective and modern operational capabilities, supportability, maintainability and other factors were thoroughly evaluated during the trials of available hi-tech options. In this regard, three aircraft namely, Chinese FC-20, USF-16 C/D and Swedish Grippen were evaluated.

While the US F-16 C/D and Swedish Grippen qualified against the PAF requirements, the Chinese FC-20, in its present state, lagged behind due to the lack of advanced avionics systems and weapons. For the future, however, PAF termed it as a good option with very promising growth potential to become one of the leading frontline fighters to face the challenges of the 21st century.

Further, due to the high cost of Grippen, the F-16 weapon system, along with air-to-air BVR missiles was considered to be the most suitable option to immediately address the critical capability deficit that PAF has accumulated vis-à-vis IAF.

The document suggests that the President had directed the Defence Ministry to move a summary for the Cabinet directing the Ministries of Defence and Foreign Affairs to adopt proactive approach to influence the United States and Chinese Governments for the release of the requisite package.

http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=409827&currPageNo=1&query=&search=&term=&supDate=

 

[genmirajborgza786]

but when will these air craft be deliverd to pakistan it should be now or forget it. PAF must get these in the shortest period of time or else should look for other jets eg=typhoon,jas 39,raffele.or even sakhui 33s

 

[melb4aust]

but when will these air craft be deliverd to pakistan it should be now or forget it. PAF must get these in the shortest period of time or else should look for other jets eg=typhoon,jas 39,raffele.or even sakhui 33s

Hopefully very soon, thats why Tanveer mahmood our Air chief has given an ulti matum to US to give those jets ASAP, other wise we can look or go for some thing else. I think the way to get Raphael or Grippen is quite clear for Pakistan now. France is quite interested in providing Pakistan their fighter jets as Pakistan has already been using french made Mirages in vast number. After getting Eireye, Sweden is also very keen to provide their home build fighter jets.

 

[Neo]

but when will these air craft be deliverd to pakistan it should be now or forget it. PAF must get these in the shortest period of time or else should look for other jets eg=typhoon,jas 39,raffele.or even sakhui 33s

If the MDE is approved by the Congress by the end of this month the older F-16's could be delivered as early as the 1st quarter of 2007 and will have the MLU, most probably in Turkey.
New block 52 F-16C/D's will take 24 months to build.
As for the J-10/JF-20, no schedule is set as the aircraft is still under development and won't be available till 2009.

 

[melb4aust]

If the MDE is approved by the Congress by the end of this month the older F-16's could be delivered as early as the 1st quarter of 2007 and will have the MLU, most probably in Turkey.
New block 52 F-16C/D's will take 24 months to build.
As for the J-10/JF-20, no schedule is set as the aircraft is still under development and won't be available till 2009.

You're telling that J-10 is till 3 years away , What would be the future prospects after getting F-16's, JF-17 and J-10?

 

[Neo]

You're telling that J-10 is till 3 years away , What would be the future prospects after getting F-16's, JF-17 and J-10?

Yep, 2009 or even 2010 is very optimistic for JF-20!
F-16 is already in service and available on short term. The new purchase will close the fighter gap, we might even opt for more second hand Falcons and give them MLU incase the JF-17 is delayed.
Expect to have 96 F-16's operatrional by mid 2009 when the JF-20 becomes available.

JF-17 productionline is expected to be functional by the end of this year producing 20 ac's per year, so 150th Thunder will be delivered by 2015?

PAF is still looking for another 4.0-4.5 gen aircraft for induction by 2010.
Jas-39, Rafale, Eurofighter or maybe even a Russian brand!

 

[ISI2003]

actually there is a back order at the lockheed martin plant, and there are still 144 plane ahead of our 36

thye MLU planes will be the stop gap, and can be ready in the next 3 years (2009) but the new planes are expected to be delievered around 2011-2012
(these are the rumours floating around the forums)

the mlu planes will do fine to hold the line as the pilots get training, infastructure is built, and PAF matures to a whole new fleet of F-16's, JF-17's and J-10's

 

[Muradk]

Neo you will like this .
our F-16s with JHMCS will be able to do the following and with
AIM-9x it will be amazing watch and last clip of lufbery pass engagement.

http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/Guest/18/

now to understand this we need to know what Lufbery Pass engagement means , I will download some info and some manuv.

shows a classic "Lufbery". In this fight neither aircraft can leave, both windows are closed. The first one to try and leave will get shot.
While it is important to know where your escape window is, if you intend to be successful and shoot down bandits, you will have close your escape window. Knowing where your escape window is will prevent you from trying to leave a fight that has a closed escape window.

Should I stay, or should I go?

Providing you both see each other, there are three main factors that effect an escape window.

Range: The range between you and the bandit. The greater the range, the more open the window

Energy: Energy relative to your opponent. The greater your energy in relationship to the bandit, the more open your window.

Angle-Off: The greater your angle-off, the more open your window. (A head on pass is the best advantage here).

 

[melb4aust]

ASRAAM can actually do better, Pilot just only have to look and then shoot, similarly Python 4 and 5, all of these missiles have the capability to shoot aircrafts around 360 degree angle. You can even shoot down the bandit behind you (six o clock). Amazing is'nt it.

 

[A.Rahman]

sorry I am not following this topic,

are we getting ASRAAM?

 

[Neo]

actually there is a back order at the lockheed martin plant, and there are still 144 plane ahead of our 36

thye MLU planes will be the stop gap, and can be ready in the next 3 years (2009) but the new planes are expected to be delievered around 2011-2012
(these are the rumours floating around the forums)

the mlu planes will do fine to hold the line as the pilots get training, infastructure is built, and PAF matures to a whole new fleet of F-16's, JF-17's and J-10's

ISI,

I'm affraid that these are just rumors; F-16's are meant to close the fighter gap and PAF can't afford to wait another five years to get the first new block 52 F-16C/D.

Mind you that the original MoU included 77 newly built block 52 F-16C/D which would have helped Lockheed to stop gap between 2008-11 till the JSF gets in full production.

Backlog has indeed grown due Greek and Polish order but PAF has sized down the number to 18 which will be available with 24 months after the final order.
Even if the option for another 18 is materialised, these will come no later than 2010.

It's been reported that the 36 secondhand F-16's are already available from a third country, prolly the Netherlands or Belgium, maybe even Venezuela and these will undergo a MLU in Turkey rather than the US.

 

[Neo]

Neo you will like this .
our F-16s with JHMCS will be able to do the following and with
AIM-9x it will be amazing watch and last clip of lufbery pass engagement.

http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/Guest/18/

now to understand this we need to know what Lufbery Pass engagement means , I will download some info and some manuv.

shows a classic "Lufbery". In this fight neither aircraft can leave, both windows are closed. The first one to try and leave will get shot.
While it is important to know where your escape window is, if you intend to be successful and shoot down bandits, you will have close your escape window. Knowing where your escape window is will prevent you from trying to leave a fight that has a closed escape window.

Should I stay, or should I go?

Providing you both see each other, there are three main factors that effect an escape window.

Range: The range between you and the bandit. The greater the range, the more open the window

Energy: Energy relative to your opponent. The greater your energy in relationship to the bandit, the more open your window.

Angle-Off: The greater your angle-off, the more open your window. (A head on pass is the best advantage here).

Waw!
Great link General, I had a major rush watching the video and don't want to know what the pilot must be feeling.

Aim-9x is an amazing weapon, I didn't see it though in the MDE list.

 

[Quwa]

From what I know, the original MoU included roughly 50 new-built F-16C/D Block 52 aircraft and 26 used F-16A/B aircraft, with an option for another 25 new C/Ds. Currently it seems the PAF will execute the current option, which will bring the Block 52 PLUS fleet to 36; and there is a fair chance they may order another 18 or 36 Block 52 PLUS aircraft in the near future.