F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter

[fatman17]

Transferring technology and offsets really depends on how much you can absorb....Indian industry is ahead of Pakistan's but even the Indians cannot absorb all of what the west can offer (they usually hold back the good stuff and offer stuff that they can afford to let go of). Setting up manufacturing assembly capability for the F-16 in India is a losing proposition long term. It is a decade late and by the time it does happen, it would be even later. I doubt Indians would fall for it.

I stand by my point that PAF should absorb as many F-16s as she can. JF-17s, FC-20s are all in the near to mid term future. So I say get a hold of as many F-16s as possible and put them through MLU. That is a good way to go about enhancing the force. The Americans know that Pakistan is no longer desperate for the F-16s so they are relenting. Lets have some confidence in this plan. The ACM of the PAF in an interview himself said something to the effect that although we cannot guarantee against sanctions again, we wont be caught with our pants down. I.E. PAF has other decent alternates in the near future.

F-16s will be a very decent force multipliers in the sub-continental scenario. Regardless of all the claims by the IAF fans about the MKI and this or that, F-16 against the IAF will hold its own and will be a major threat for the other side to counter. A Pakistani specification MLU btw is not the same thing as the initial MLU that was performed on the European Participating Air Forces. Most of the avionics and radars are actually updated and very current for use in the sub-continental context. The AIDEW systems being talked about for use on the PAF F-16s are pretty amazing for both offensive and defensive operations. Overall the MLU package is a very nifty thing for PAF force enhancement in short term.

great post! absolutely agree!

 

[araz]

Transferring technology and offsets really depends on how much you can absorb....Indian industry is ahead of Pakistan's but even the Indians cannot absorb all of what the west can offer (they usually hold back the good stuff and offer stuff that they can afford to let go of). Setting up manufacturing assembly capability for the F-16 in India is a losing proposition long term. It is a decade late and by the time it does happen, it would be even later. I doubt Indians would fall for it.

I stand by my point that PAF should absorb as many F-16s as she can. JF-17s, FC-20s are all in the near to mid term future. So I say get a hold of as many F-16s as possible and put them through MLU. That is a good way to go about enhancing the force. The Americans know that Pakistan is no longer desperate for the F-16s so they are relenting. Lets have some confidence in this plan. The ACM of the PAF in an interview himself said something to the effect that although we cannot guarantee against sanctions again, we wont be caught with our pants down. I.E. PAF has other decent alternates in the near future.

F-16s will be a very decent force multipliers in the sub-continental scenario. Regardless of all the claims by the IAF fans about the MKI and this or that, F-16 against the IAF will hold its own and will be a major threat for the other side to counter. A Pakistani specification MLU btw is not the same thing as the initial MLU that was performed on the European Participating Air Forces. Most of the avionics and radars are actually updated and very current for use in the sub-continental context. The AIDEW systems being talked about for use on the PAF F-16s are pretty amazing for both offensive and defensive operations. Overall the MLU package is a very nifty thing for PAF force enhancement in short term.

Sir Blain
Thank you for a very informative reply. Iagree fully with you. However, on a hypothetical note what wouldthe PAF be able to absorb of the F16 technology were it to be offered?
Thanks in advance.
Araz

 

[blain2]

Bits and pieces of it I think. We could definitely do manufacturing of airframe, some sub-systems but radar, EW suite (we can do parts of it like RWRs etc. but that is not the entire thing) is another thing. We can learn from it and use it for other projects in the future maybe.

I think the distinction is assembly vs. manufacturing. So like Turkey and TUSAS, Pakistani Aerospace Complex can also assemble the aircraft and develop some of the systems. India, if they were to receive a license would be doing the same as TUSAS.

Essentially you would be relying on PAC for everything. Which I think is a lot for even PAC to handle as there aren't too many partners on the private side to do this work. This handicaps Pakistan. Private firms should be partnering with the PAC on projects of this nature.

 

[BATMAN]

PAF should absorb as many F-16s as she can

Correct but it is really hard to believe that this time US will honor it's contract, fully. Specially looking at trickeling pace of F-16 being released and MLU upgrades.
Why can't US release all F-16 in shorter time and don't you think the speed of MLU is also slow? considering our trust level.
What is preventing US from delivering block-52.

 

[blain2]

Correct but it is really hard to believe that this time US will honor it's contract, fully. Specially looking at trickeling pace of F-16 being released and MLU upgrades.
Why can't US release all F-16 in shorter time and don't you think the speed of MLU is also slow? considering our trust level.
What is preventing US from delivering block-52.

Each MLU takes 5 months. Pakistan seems to be doing 2 at a time so you can see the delay. Secondly, its not easy for the USN to let go of the F-16s as they are being used (and not parked in AMARC). They are offering other airframes which PAF does not want. While the chance of US side not honoring its contract exists, there is more to lose for them in doing so than there is for Pakistan.

On the blk-52, there are other orders in the queue before Pakistan's. Those will be fulfilled then Pakistan's. LM told Pakistan that delivery will start in 2009. So we just have to wait.

 

[BATMAN]

Thanks, for your answer.
I really hope that PAF getting complete deliveries of those awaited birds till the end of next years.

 

[araz]

Bits and pieces of it I think. We could definitely do manufacturing of airframe, some sub-systems but radar, EW suite (we can do parts of it like RWRs etc. but that is not the entire thing) is another thing. We can learn from it and use it for other projects in the future maybe.

I think the distinction is assembly vs. manufacturing. So like Turkey and TUSAS, Pakistani Aerospace Complex can also assemble the aircraft and develop some of the systems. India, if they were to receive a license would be doing the same as TUSAS.

Essentially you would be relying on PAC for everything. Which I think is a lot for even PAC to handle as there aren't too many partners on the private side to do this work. This handicaps Pakistan. Private firms should be partnering with the PAC on projects of this nature.

My only observation to your excellant post is that Private partners will come up if there is an opportunity to make money. Look at the UAV scene. There are quite a few companies manufacturing and providing systems. It is now upto PA/PAF to support and advise them and encourage them to produce better and better stuff. Similarly, if JF 17 comes to fruition there is no reason why a company could be given the opportunity to import composite technology and start manufacturing bits of thunder. i think it all depends on opportunities presented and nurturing providers. A lot of good will and honesty is required for this , which is a bug bear at times.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[fatman17]

23rd march u were correct.

AFM July is reporting....

Pakistan F-16s for MLU finally make it to the US:

after being stranded at lejas in the azores for four months, the first two aircraft that will act as prototypes for the PAF Mid-Life Update (MLU) programme have finally made it to the USA. the aircraft F-16A 84713/USAF 81-0911 and F-16B 82603/USAF 81-0933 had initially been flown to tercia airport, lejas by PAF pilots and arrived there on January 11.
they were then to be flown by USAF pilots for the remainder of the journey to HILL AFB, UTAH where the MLU work will be undertaken. however, on inspection at lejas by US personnel, they were found to have some time expired engine components and the US aircrew refused to fly the aircraft until these had been replaced. even this work did not go entirely smoothly, as during a test flight on Feburary 11 the two-seat F-16B was forced to make an emergency landing back at lejas with engine problems.
reflecting the length of time they had remained on the ground at lejas, someone at the airfield with a sense of humour had applied LJ tail codes to both aircraft in late March. eventually the aircraft were ready for departure and they finally left lejas on May 14 still wearing their un-official LJ tail codes and supported by a USAF KC-135.

 

[ejaz007]

Here is a link to the video of the 4 F-16s recently handed over to PAF:

Aviation Video: Batch of Four F-16s joins Pakistan Air Force | Patrick's Aviation

Regards,

 

[Keysersoze]

Looks like Raytheon have a product that could prolong the life span of the F-16

Raytheon takes wraps off AESA radar

Raytheon Space and Airborne Systems (RSAS) launched a new active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for fighter aircraft on 14 July at the Farnborough International Airshow.

Billed by the company as providing a “fifth-generation capability for fourth-generation fighters”, the radar is designed primarily for retrofit to a range of fighter aircraft including the Lockheed Martin F-16A/B/C/D and Boeing F/A-18A/A+/B/C/D types.

 

[Owais]

Raytheon offers AESA radar for F-16

July 14, 2008 (by Asif Shamim) - Raytheon Co. announced at the Farnborough airshow the news about there latest AESA radar known as the advanced combat radar (RACR, "racer").
The new radar is aimed at squarely at the retrofit market, for the F-16, F/A-18 and for installation in new-build fighters.

RACR draws heavily on Raytheon's previous experience in building AESA (active electronically scanned antenna) radars for the F-15 Eagle (APG-63(V)2/3/4) and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet (APG-79). The new radar uses technology & components from those existing programs.

Raytheon original proposed the RANGR (Raytheon advanced next-generation radar) for use with the F-16. This scalable radar has a downside, it requires its own power source and cooling system which would impact the existing airframe adding to the overall cost.

The RACR provided the same capability but its advantage is that it uses the existing power and cooling systems provisioned in the airframe making this radar more cost effective.

With the costs reduced it makes this model an attractive upgrade for air forces requiring newer radars, rather than forking out larger sums of money for new aircraft. It can be said that your giving a forth generation aircraft, fifth generation capabilities.

Additionally the RACR allows the aircraft to network in and share data over a high speed link. "The antenna becomes a node in the network. It can share data in a high-speed way, sending SAR maps in a few milliseconds. We have demonstrated a rate of 274 Mb per second. When you combine the antenna with an advanced RWR system like the ALR-69, you get a dramatic increase in capability", said Mike Henchey, Raytheon's director of strategy and business development, tactical airborne systems.

Raytheon is trying to break the hold in this market by its rival radar maker Northrop Grumman. Currently the RACR is fit checked in an F-16. In due course the company plan to fly a working example in a testbed aircraft.

Raytheon offers AESA radar for F-16

 

[Myth_buster_1]

AESA news does not make any deference to PAF F-16 deal... does it..

 

[fatman17]

AESA news does not make any deference to PAF F-16 deal... does it..

not for the foreseable future!

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Bits and pieces of it I think. We could definitely do manufacturing of airframe, some sub-systems but radar, EW suite (we can do parts of it like RWRs etc. but that is not the entire thing) is another thing. We can learn from it and use it for other projects in the future maybe.

I think the distinction is assembly vs. manufacturing. So like Turkey and TUSAS, Pakistani Aerospace Complex can also assemble the aircraft and develop some of the systems. India, if they were to receive a license would be doing the same as TUSAS.

Essentially you would be relying on PAC for everything. Which I think is a lot for even PAC to handle as there aren't too many partners on the private side to do this work. This handicaps Pakistan. Private firms should be partnering with the PAC on projects of this nature.

Right on the Spot!

Without Private Sector Involvement Not much Self Reliance in Aircraft Industry can be ACHIEVED!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Found this F-16 MLU detailed manual!!!