Featured Ex PN Chief Zafar Mehmood Abbasi highlighted PN modernization

[maverick1977]

I get your point, I think we all do, the issue is not misunderstanding what you are saying, the issue is that what you are saying has no grounding in reality. In your mind you know think PN would rather have a Brigade of deployable marines and what? Send them to Mumbai to relieve pressure on Punjab? Send them to certain death, and while we are at it spend money that the navy could use to instead probably buy 6 air warfare destroyers???????

Once word of your post is correct, "ridiculous". Let's leave it at that. Next week we can discuss PAF developing a Millenium Falcon....

for sure destroyers are priority..


besides in a colation of new world order to project power as a blue navy, pakistan can employ more battle field strategies with marines...
Pakistan marines will expand. in warfare deploying a brigade size force in an assault is a starting, once beach heads are formed, more troops can come in... india will be forced to divert troops to the south along with air assets, check out the range or tour fighter to provide air cover with refuel...

expand the noodle and shoot for the skies, It is for sure not ridiculous, but a naysayer will want to say it otherwise.

what do u think the last pillar stands for, i am brain storming lets hear from u

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Yarmook-class = Damen 2300 ton corvettes
Variants of those corvettes are in contractual stage. They will be larger in tonnage i.e. more than 2300 tons and will be 6 in number. That is what he said. Check around 15:20



Indeed it it.
Admiral Abbasi has probably been a transformational leader for the Navy in that he essentially kicked off a major transformation across all domains of the force. Similar to what ACM Aman did for the PAF.
And just as ACM Mujahid is continuing that transformation, here's to hoping that Admiral Niazi will do the same.

This is going to be the decade of the Navy. The force will be virtually unrecognizable in 2030 from the state it was in back in 2009-2010.

Navy and Air force have big ticket items where huge amount of capital needs to be invested to commission weapon systems and platforms that cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
in the army the men to equipment disparity is not at that scale. for the lack of term or better example compare the costs of raising an airforce squadron or Naval flotilla against an army unit (whichever arm). the cost disparity is exponential.

whats the meaning of all this prelude? the PN chief that brought the chances and transformation of PN fleet happens to be in relatively better times where the financing and access to technology is/ was more favorable times to realize the goal. we have been subjected to direct and indirect restrictions in procuring defense equipment from countries even where Americans had no element in the comments making up the end product.
God Bless Abbasi sahib and our defense forces for finally realizing their goal and continue the march towards modernization.

for me real achievement is that our leadership correctly identifies the platforms, training regime and adapts the doctrine according to changing regional challenges and chooses best accessible and affordable platforms.

 

[Yasser76]

Navy and Air force have big ticket items where huge amount of capital needs to be invested to commission weapon systems and platforms that cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
in the army the men to equipment disparity is not at that scale. for the lack of term or better example compare the costs of raising an airforce squadron or Naval flotilla against an army unit (whichever arm). the cost disparity is exponential.

whats the meaning of all this prelude? the PN chief that brought the chances and transformation of PN fleet happens to be in relatively better times where the financing and access to technology is/ was more favorable times to realize the goal. we have been subjected to direct and indirect restrictions in procuring defense equipment from countries even where Americans had no element in the comments making up the end product.
God Bless Abbasi sahib and our defense forces for finally realizing their goal and continue the march towards modernization.

for me real achievement is that our leadership correctly identifies the platforms, training regime and adapts the doctrine according to changing regional challenges and chooses best accessible and affordable platforms.

Agree, whats more, if US were to ever sanction us, we know have in place a navy that is immune to US sanctions. There will soon be nothing we use that has an ITAR restriction. US played this game with Pak. At one point 50% of navy and all our MPAs were US. Now that has been reduced to zero. Expect to see the PAF in similar condition once F-16 retired. US leverage getting smaller by the day. Army has almost no equipment it needs US for now (even Cobras and M109s we can pretty much maintain ourselves).

 

[Rafi]

Looks like PN modernisation is part of Chinese investment in Gwadar CPEC. It depends how far China is willing to go to secure CPEC routes. PN will deploy a complete TF at Gwadar, could be smaller contingent than the TF to be deployed in Karachi against IN, but nonetheless it will be a potent force with this modernisation plan.

Creeks area for sure and Im guessing wherever CPEC routes are threatened although the main task has always been to provide security to Gwadar and other Naval ports.

PN's adversary has always been Indian Navy, the threat sphere has grown due to CPEC Gwadar project. Either Chinese deploy their own assets or give assets to Pakistan to defend the sea routes. Looks like for now Chinese have chosen the latter.

The Navy has been given much more responsibility, not only are they guarding our sea lanes and CPEC, but hold our assured second strike capability.

 

[Signalian]

for sure destroyers are priority..


besides in a colation of new world order to project power as a blue navy, pakistan can employ more battle field strategies with marines...
Pakistan marines will expand. in warfare deploying a brigade size force in an assault is a starting, once beach heads are formed, more troops can come in... india will be forced to divert troops to the south along with air assets, check out the range or tour fighter to provide air cover with refuel...

expand the noodle and shoot for the skies, It is for sure not ridiculous, but a naysayer will want to say it otherwise.

what do u think the last pillar stands for, i am brain storming lets hear from u

You need to read a lot about amphibious Ops which are way more complicated than air borne/ air assault operations. For a brigade sized (3500-5000 troops) formation to land the beach, it would require almost two thirds of future naval assets to constantly remain in the waters to support marines and then keep replenishing them with supplies and delivering reinforcements in men and material for next few days. Currently there are no modern landing ships in inventory that have massive troop carrying capacity or can support motorised/mechanised vehicles to land on the beach. This flotilla will be a sitting duck for Indian navy and air assets to constantly target, attack and harass it. Consider future TF2 and TF3 completely dedicated to amphibious landing and TF1 protecting Gwadar, its not feasible. Without heavy equipment like tanks, artillery etc and also without Air support from strike aircrafts and gunships, the Brigade could suffer setbacks and losses. The brigade would also need Air Defence from enemy air attacks which Navy will not be able to provide and PAF may (or may not) be able provide for next few days.

A smaller force which uses midget submarines or is dropped from the air can have better chances to inflict damage on Indian forces and return back to friendly lines.

 

[Zarvan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314565086007234562

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314565088204947463

Also I will add one more thing Naval Chief said 2030 Marine vision suggests that it would be Division Plus size Force. Basically expect Marines to be bigger in size than one Division

 

[maverick1977]

You need to read a lot about amphibious Ops which are way more complicated than air borne/ air assault operations. For a brigade sized (3500-5000 troops) formation to land the beach, it would require almost two thirds of future naval assets to constantly remain in the waters to support marines and then keep replenishing them with supplies and delivering reinforcements in men and material for next few days. Currently there are no modern landing ships in inventory that have massive troop carrying capacity or can support motorised/mechanised vehicles to land on the beach. This flotilla will be a sitting duck for Indian navy and air assets to constantly target, attack and harass it. Consider future TF2 and TF3 completely dedicated to amphibious landing and TF1 protecting Gwadar, its not feasible. Without heavy equipment like tanks, artillery etc and also without Air support from strike aircrafts and gunships, the Brigade could suffer setbacks and losses. The brigade would also need Air Defence from enemy air attacks which Navy will not be able to provide and PAF may (or may not) be able provide for next few days.

A smaller force which uses midget submarines or is dropped from the air can have better chances to inflict damage on Indian forces and return back to friendly lines.

Thanks for providing input on Marine assault tying it in PN capabilities. not sure if you can answer it for other folks on the forum, why would Egyptians go for Mistral amphibious assault vehicles and how their doctrine makes it a sense for them to have it?

Does LD75 or Wasp can sense with dedicated airarm along with destroyers for air cover?

 

[Yasser76]

Thanks for providing input on Marine assault tying it in PN capabilities. not sure if you can answer it for other folks on the forum, why would Egyptians go for Mistral amphibious assault vehicles and how their doctrine makes it a sense for them to have it?

Does LD75 or Wasp can sense with dedicated airarm along with destroyers for air cover?

Egyptian purchase of Mistral was biggest white elephant in defence history for years. Basically ships were meant for Russia, France changed it's mind and was actually going to scrap them. Egypt bought them along with Russian attack helicopters (come say deal financed by Saudis), so everyone was happy. These ships have no use for Egypt other than as a floating helipad.

They dont even have marines to put in the ships.....

 

[ziaulislam]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314565086007234562

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314565088204947463

Also I will add one more thing Naval Chief said 2030 Marine vision suggests that it would be Division Plus size Force. Basically expect Marines to be bigger in size than one Division

Yarmook are not MAJOR vessels
They are basically duel purpose OPV & lightly armed corvettes

4 f22
4 milgem
4 type 54
1 jinnah possibly more and will ultimate ly replace f22
6 unknown heavy tonnage
19 are our major vessesl currently in pipeline


Yarmook, supply ships and FAC will add the other 30 for navy to be a 50 ship force

 

[Yasser76]

Yarmook are not MAJOR vessels
They are basically duel purpose OPV & lightly armed corvettes

4 f22
4 milgem
4 type 54
1 jinnah possibly more and will ultimate ly replace f22
6 unknown heavy tonnage
19 are our major vessesl currently in pipeline


Yarmook, supply ships and FAC will add the other 30 for navy to be a 50 ship force

1 OHP makes it 20. We just signed contract to upgrade some of its equipment so looks like the ship will be in PN for at least next 10 years.

 

[Reichmarshal]

When PA decided to raise the strength of the SSG from a Brigade to Division + .
It took PA 15 plus year to raise the numbers of SSG units to 10.
All done without compromising on standards and quality.
15 years, so go figure
Simple point being PN has been at for some time and has been steadily increasing its overall strength and hence the disclosure

 

[Zarvan]

Yarmook are not MAJOR vessels
They are basically duel purpose OPV & lightly armed corvettes

4 f22
4 milgem
4 type 54
1 jinnah possibly more and will ultimate ly replace f22
6 unknown heavy tonnage
19 are our major vessesl currently in pipeline


Yarmook, supply ships and FAC will add the other 30 for navy to be a 50 ship force

Pakistan won't be making one Jinah even CNS used the term first Jinah. That means it would be at least four ships. What I am most curious is how big that Ballistic Missile which is under development will be and what will be its range.

@Ark_Angel @Thorough Pro @Rafi

When PA decided to raise the strength of the SSG from a Brigade to Division + .
It took PA 15 plus year to raise the numbers of SSG units to 10.
All done without compromising on standards and quality.
15 years, so go figure

Navy is increasing SSGN size to a Brigade and Marines will be Division plus

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Like I said out going Naval Chief didn't tell all the details. The details he told were wrong figures and this was intentionally done.Future Pakistan Navy would be much bigger than 50 ships and will have way more than 20 major vessels from that I mean it would more than 20 Destroyers and Frigates and Corvettes. Off Course Naval Chief was not going to reveal everything or reveal everything accurately.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Quwa @Rashid Mahmood @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah @Path-Finder

bro...things may change between chiefs, but I wouldn't say that the top officer of the Navy (or Army/Air Force) would intentionally give wrong information.

The facts are right in front of you: the PN said it's aiming for 20 large ships. Until the PN says otherwise, that's the truth and nothing more (or less).

 

[Yasser76]

bro...things may change between chiefs, but I wouldn't say that the top officer of the Navy (or Army/Air Force) would intentionally give wrong information.

The facts are right in front of you: the PN said it's aiming for 20 large ships. Until the PN says otherwise, that's the truth and nothing more (or less).

Please, you must understand Bilal, we are Pakistanis, nothing is what it seems, even an honest factual statement by CNS, obviously there is some other secret plan only certain members here are privy too. You should know this by now!

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Please, you must understand Bilal, we are Pakistanis, nothing is what it seems, even an honest factual statement by CNS, obviously there is some other secret plan only certain members here are privy too. You should know this by now!

I'm more worried about SMQ. If those secret plans fail, 100% our FM is going to get the blame: "it's because he failed to give a birthday gift to Erdogan's soon to be grandson (yes, we know, good news in 3 months)."

In terms of how the PN defines "large surface vessels..." The CNS said the PN relies on around 10 such ships, which means he's referring to 2,000+ ton ships.

Basically, the F-22P, OPV 1900 (Yarmouk-class), MILGEM, Type 054A/P, PNS Alamgir, etc are all 'large' vessels. Not including PNS Alamgir, the PN has 14 such ships in the pipeline or in service (F-22P), which leaves the 6 larger ships "to be contracted soon."

If the PN is simply looking for more sea control capability, then they could be looking at larger OPVs based on the Damen OPV 1800.

However, if these are to be a fully capable design, then I'd wager it is the Jinnah-class frigate. Since J-Class is a separate program from the MILGEM corvettes, it would be a reasonable bet to expect a large (5,000+ ton) design. The PN is clearly now calling 2,000-3,000-ton ships "corvettes" (i.e., OPV 1900 and MILGEM), so a "frigate" in the Type 054A/P's range (4,000-5,000-ton) is plausible.

Finally, 20 large surface vessels is huge. This would give Pakistan a large navy. For reference, the Royal Navy of the UK is around 25-30 'large' ships (2,000+ ton not including carriers, tankers, etc), and they have global reach. The French have around 24 such ships.